IN IN - Paul Raymond Harrod May Have Been Using False Identity - Hamilton County - 27 Nov 1992 #2

[Cota332]

He did state in the previous thread that he was retiring soon. I just binged both threads. He disappears for months at a time. No updates?

He did state that he was retiring previously. Perhaps his plans changed.

His statement is in thread #1 if you wish to find it. It's dated April 17th, 2020 and states the following :

"I am not asking for anything. My goal is all of OUR hard work comes together and we solve the mystery. I feel confident. I need the face to face as I am retiring late next year and cannot let this go!!"

 

[megs1477]

He did state that he was retiring previously. Perhaps his plans changed.

His statement is in thread #1 if you wish to find it. It's dated April 17th, 2020 and states the following :

"I am not asking for anything. My goal is all of OUR hard work comes together and we solve the mystery. I feel confident. I need the face to face as I am retiring late next year and cannot let this go!!"

His plans must have changed. He is still working. I stay in touch with him and Marla.

 

[Andreee]

He did state that he was retiring previously. Perhaps his plans changed.

His statement is in thread #1 if you wish to find it. It's dated April 17th, 2020 and states the following :

"I am not asking for anything. My goal is all of OUR hard work comes together and we solve the mystery. I feel confident. I need the face to face as I am retiring late next year and cannot let this go!!"

Sometimes a person has to let things go, and despite all our best efforts I think the only way this man's identity will be known is by someone from his family coming forward. The more time that passes, the less chance of that there is. It's been fascinating over the years though, especially thought the detective had him with the Alaska man lead! IMO.

 

[megs1477]

Sometimes a person has to let things go, and despite all our best efforts I think the only way this man's identity will be known is by someone from his family coming forward. The more time that passes, the less chance of that there is. It's been fascinating over the years though, especially thought the detective had him with the Alaska man lead! IMO.

There are a couple things in the works that should bring some attention to the case again. There are also leads being run down. The Detective does not walk a way from a case until it is closed. This is still an open cold case.

 

[Andreee]

There are a couple things in the works that should bring some attention to the case again. There are also leads being run down. The Detective does not walk a way from a case until it is closed. This is still an open cold case.

lol, ok.

 

[Andreee]

.

 

[psych-nurse]

I am in the camp that thinks Yonkers is a complete lie. I read in the previous thread that nobody would know Yonkers if they weren't local. That is wrong and I am basically proof of that. I've never been to New York City and was born and raised in Appalachia. I am familiar enough with Yonkers to come up with it and know a little about it. Music lovers and true crime lovers from the 70s and 80's may recall that Steven Tyler was from there as were the murderers Joel Steinberg and Son of Sam/David Berkowitz. That is knowledge from the evening news and magazines of the day. I feel that he probably selected a "hometown" so far removed from the truth that it was actually the polar opposite.

Also, maybe this was covered before, but is Marla able to provide any personal item that may have DNA? An envelope, grooming items, clothing? I am thinking of familial DNA testing through crowdsourcing if items like this exist.

 

[megs1477]

I am in the camp that thinks Yonkers is a complete lie. I read in the previous thread that nobody would know Yonkers if they weren't local. That is wrong and I am basically proof of that. I've never been to New York City and was born and raised in Appalachia. I am familiar enough with Yonkers to come up with it and know a little about it. Music lovers and true crime lovers from the 70s and 80's may recall that Steven Tyler was from there as were the murderers Joel Steinberg and Son of Sam/David Berkowitz. That is knowledge from the evening news and magazines of the day. I feel that he probably selected a "hometown" so far removed from the truth that it was actually the polar opposite.

Also, maybe this was covered before, but is Marla able to provide any personal item that may have DNA? An envelope, grooming items, clothing? I am thinking of familial DNA testing through crowdsourcing if items like this exist.

I’m not sure what to think about the Yonkers angle. When I researched the comments MH made about the accent I came up with a Philly accent.

Regarding items, there were some remaining. They had been in a non-climate controlled storage shed for 20 years. They were tested and no fingerprints or DNA were found. That was in 2019 I believe.

 

[Laughing]

I am in the camp that thinks Yonkers is a complete lie. I read in the previous thread that nobody would know Yonkers if they weren't local. That is wrong and I am basically proof of that. I've never been to New York City and was born and raised in Appalachia. I am familiar enough with Yonkers to come up with it and know a little about it. Music lovers and true crime lovers from the 70s and 80's may recall that Steven Tyler was from there as were the murderers Joel Steinberg and Son of Sam/David Berkowitz. That is knowledge from the evening news and magazines of the day. I feel that he probably selected a "hometown" so far removed from the truth that it was actually the polar opposite.

Also, maybe this was covered before, but is Marla able to provide any personal item that may have DNA? An envelope, grooming items, clothing? I am thinking of familial DNA testing through crowdsourcing if items like this exist.

And, if not-Paul truly served in the Air Force (mentioned Thule AFB) or was a contractor on a base he only needed one acquaintance from Yonkers or another suburb to add that detail to his oh-so-limited history. IMHO of course.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[debbyjo812]

And, if not-Paul truly served in the Air Force (mentioned Thule AFB) or was a contractor on a base he only needed one acquaintance from Yonkers or another suburb to add that detail to his oh-so-limited history. IMHO of course.

jmho ymmv lrr

I believe that many of not-Paul's stories, lingo, and information came from acquaintances and were not truly his own.

 

[megs1477]

I believe that many of not-Paul's stories, lingo, and information came from acquaintances and were not truly his own.

All the information provided by the detective came from his wife and sister in law.
He was only known to have one acquaintance. An older gentleman that lived in Indianapolis. He was deceased by the time the case was looked at again.
That is why information is no minimal. There were no friends or acquaintances. He did not like to talk about himself and have MH minimal information about his past. The information provided is all she could recall 20 years later.

 

[Grungster]

All the information provided by the detective came from his wife and sister in law.
He was only known to have one acquaintance. An older gentleman that lived in Indianapolis. He was deceased by the time the case was looked at again.
That is why information is no minimal. There were no friends or acquaintances. He did not like to talk about himself and have MH minimal information about his past. The information provided is all she could recall 20 years later.

Wasn’t he friends with an elderly couple too?

 

[megs1477]

Wasn’t he friends with an elderly couple too?

Not that I’m aware of. There was a younger couple mentioned in the FSC Video. Acquaintances with children. MH & PRH went and had dinner at their home once. MH said it was awkward.

 

[summergirl1]

I know the other social security number he used when he bought the car that was later auctioned was never located, but I would have thought maybe it would have been on the civil judgement for the car somewhere? Does the whole paperwork for that civil judgment no longer exist? I wonder why he used a different SS number to buy the car? Maybe this was addressed in the earlier thread, but it's very, very, long.

 

[megs1477]

I know the other social security number he used when he bought the car that was later auctioned was never located, but I would have thought maybe it would have been on the civil judgement for the car somewhere? Does the whole paperwork for that civil judgment no longer exist? I wonder why he used a different SS number to buy the car? Maybe this was addressed in the earlier thread, but it's very, very, long.

Detective was supposed to be putting in a subpoena to see. But that takes forever. Now that I know how to put in a FOIA request…that might be a quicker option. Thank you for bringing the idea up!!! I had forgotten completely and this could be a fast result!!!!

 

[Laughing]

I know the other social security number he used when he bought the car that was later auctioned was never located, but I would have thought maybe it would have been on the civil judgement for the car somewhere? Does the whole paperwork for that civil judgment no longer exist? I wonder why he used a different SS number to buy the car? Maybe this was addressed in the earlier thread, but it's very, very, long.

Detective was supposed to be putting in a subpoena to see. But that takes forever. Now that I know how to put in a FOIA request…that might be a quicker option. Thank you for bringing the idea up!!! I had forgotten completely and this could be a fast result!!!!

Wonder what the records retention requirement (say that 3 times fast) is in the jurisdiction that entered the civil judgement?

Hopefully at least microfilm/scanned copy is available.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[lonewanderer]

I’m not sure what to think about the Yonkers angle. When I researched the comments MH made about the accent I came up with a Philly accent.

Regarding items, there were some remaining. They had been in a non-climate controlled storage shed for 20 years. They were tested and no fingerprints or DNA were found. That was in 2019 I believe.

I remember this being mentioned in the Mostly Harmless case.

I take issue with this. Pronouncing "water" as "wooder" is not necessarily a Philadelphian thing.

My thick southern accented, North Carolinian mother, who has maybe left North Carolina a handful of times in her whole 60 years, has always pronounced "water" as "wooder". Absolutely drove me nuts as a kid.

 

[lonewanderer]

Do you think this man resembles him?

I have been scouring through NAMUS profiles with different parameters, and have tried a whole buncha ones too confusing to remember.

Anyways, this was the closest looking person to what could match up with Fake Paul's time frame:

Added to NAMUS today:
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
---
Demographics
Missing Age - 32 Years
Current Age - 74 Years
First Name - Robert
Middle Name - Edward
Last Name - Fragnito

Sex - Male
Height - 5' 7" - 5' 9" (67 - 69 Inches)
Weight - 145 - 160 lbs
Race / Ethnicity - White / Caucasian

--

Circumstances
Date of Last Contact - November 2, 1979
NamUs Case Created - March 1, 2021
Last Known Location Map
Location - Westbury, New York 11590
County - Nassau County
Missing From Tribal Land - No
Circumstances of Disappearance - Listed person went missing at his Westbury NY residence under suspicious circumstances.

--

Physical Description
Hair Color - Brown
Facial Hair Description - Mustache
Left Eye Color - Brown
Right Eye Color - Brown

--

Distinctive Physical Features
Description
Other distinctive physical characteristics - Birthmark on the inside of his right forearm.

---

Photo of Robert

 

[summergirl1]

I think there is a resemblance. It would fit with him claiming New York and Italian origins. Robert's father was Italian, but his mother didn't have an Italian last name (though she may have had Italian blood, I didn't look into it). This would fit in some ways with Paul, who said his mother was Italian, despite the real Paul's mother not being so. Paul was basically claiming to be half Italian, which Robert probably was. Also, Robert's father had a sister named Margaret, which Paul claimed was his mother's name, although that wasn't the real Paul's mother's name.

I didn't extensively look into the circumstances of Robert's disappearance, if the information is findable online. I probably will, though. As for the possible Philly accent Paul may have had, it's interesting to note Lori Ruff, another well known case of someone else using a dead child's identity, actually was from Philadelphia, but nobody ever mentioned her accent pointing to origins there, if I recall.

 

[summergirl1]

I could find no more info on Robert's disappearance. Without knowing more about that, it really isn't possible to say whether he could have been Paul. His father's obit is posted on his thread on here. This is his mother's obit Helene Emily Fragnito (1920-2019) - Find a Grave.... He is listed as deceased in both of them for whatever it is worth. That's what his family thinks or assumes is the case, apparently. His mother's obit noted he was a Vietnam vet and Paul claimed military service, though not in Vietnam..