In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[Wudge]

One last reply then I'm giving this a rest. This is an "if...then" argument in which the supposition is being used to prove the conclusion. I do not agree that reasonable doubt equates to 98% certainty because I cannot accurately measure 98% - it is a arbitrarily applied value. One person's 51% may equate to another's 98%. There is no way to accurately measure what 98% certainty even is. I don't see smog pots or witch doctors at all. And I will not assign a value to my certainty because I believe it is an imprecise, false and subjective measurement. And that's all she wrote.

I simply used 98% as a stalking horse. I could have used 97% or 99% or another percentage and my post would remain true.

As regards a Kronk smog pot, I can't figure out why Mr. Kronk did not simply lead Mr. Cain to a place along the edge of the road that was directly in front of what he saw. He could have pointed to what he saw and asked Mr. Cain to march straight ahead (for 10 to 15 feet) and see what it is.

(This is yet another facet of Mr. Kronk's story that does not come together.)

 

[Wudge]

Respectfully snipped and bolded by Friday

Snip:

OMG, Wudge, you're absolutely right! I've admitted before on other threads that I think I'm deviousness-impaired, but your reply proves beyond a doubt that I am. I shamefully admit to you that I've never understood why on earth JB filed a subpoena demanding TES provide the defense with not only the records of every single search, but of every single searcher--who participated in a search for Caylee anywhere in the greater Orlando area.

Now I get it: The Defense didn't really want all those records of searchers who never went within miles of where Caylee's remains were discovered! The Defense simply wanted TES to object to the subpoena as written because the Defense knew they could then imply to the media and the jury (to paraphrase you): "TES has not been willing to turn their search records of that area over to Casey's defense team...(which proves that) TES might not be objective and/or have an agenda and/or a bias."

Good lord--I'll bet the Defense knew in advance that in view of Florida's Sunshine Law, TES would feel honor-bound to ask the court to limit the Defense to receiving only the records of searchers who were in the broad general area where Caylee's remains were actually found.

I'll bet the Defense even knew in advance that the Court would agree with TES's request, which of course the Court did. But by then, the Defense had already achieved their real goal--they'd forced TES to oppose them which will now enable the Defense to suggest, as you so aptly summed it up, "that TES might not be objective and/or have an agenda and/or a bias."

That would also explain why, after pretending they needed to Subpoena thousands of searcher records from TES, the Defense had no objection at all when TES instead volunteered to let Brad Conway, and the Anthony's, and the Defense, narrow the records down themselves to the Suburban location and check off the less than 40 searchers' records they actually wanted.

It pains me to admit this, but the Defense is obviously way more clever than most of us realize...and I am way more gullible and simple minded than the most ordinary defense lawyer. But also much more honorable, I hope.

Defense attorneys are supposed to have a bias towards their client. As for TES............................................

 

[JBean]

where this post may land has no bearing on the posts nearby.

For those of you that don't want to debate this topic, move on to another thread. You can't argue for 3 days and then complain that another poster is causing you to argue. Please, all posting here is done voluntarily.
If you feel you are banging your head against the wall, then here is my 2 cents on that:
Stop banging your head against the wall.

if you argue, do it respectfully and please don't attack posters personally.

Please don't announce that you are going to use the ignore feature. Just use it.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

One last reply then I'm giving this a rest. This is an "if...then" argument in which the supposition is being used to prove the conclusion. I do not agree that reasonable doubt equates to 98% certainty because I cannot accurately measure 98% - it is a arbitrarily applied value. One person's 51% may equate to another's 98%. There is no way to accurately measure what 98% certainty even is. I don't see smog pots or witch doctors at all. And I will not assign a value to my certainty because I believe it is an imprecise, false and subjective measurement. And that's all she wrote.

. . . and she wrote it good!!!! Thanks, cecybeans!

 

[BeanE]

I simply used 98% as a stalking horse. I could have used 97% or 99% or another percentage and my post would remain true.

As regards a Kronk smog pot, I can't figure out why Mr. Kronk did not simply lead Mr. Cain to a place along the edge of the road that was directly in front of what he saw. He could have pointed to what he saw and asked Mr. Cain to march straight ahead (for 10 to 15 feet) and see what it is.

(This is yet another facet of Mr. Kronk's story that does not come together.)

The document I posted for reference earlier today explains this.

Cain walked in alone, came out, and told Kronk that he'd found a bag but it was "nothing" - simply leaves and twigs. Given that, Kronk would have had no reason to lead Cain anywhere. He believed Cain had found what he (Kronk) had seen and that it was "nothing".

Further details in the document are also interesting...

 

[Just Jayla]

I believe RK did see caylee in August, and that he did not pursue it for two main reasons:

1-The snake. Had the snake not been there, he would have been more likely to have really gotten in there closer to show Officer Dopey what he was talking about.

2-The doubt we sometimes have about what exactly we saw, when rethinking things in hindsite. You can pass a woman in blue and then later mind-game yourself into thinking maybe it was purple. Maybe he was not absolutely convinced. And the officer would not help him, and the rain washed the place out a few days later....so he was able to push it to the back of his mind while he worked and lived a working man's life.

But note, it never really left his mind.

Yes, this could be looked at both ways I guess, but I have to be one to admit that if I lived or worked in that area, I may have been snooping around as much as I could get away with, and if I did see something like that....I'd have my whole family out there the next day looking at it with me, I would be obsessed until I knew for sure.

ETA-Kinda like I'm obsessed with finding answers through this forum.....but I think there's another thread about this obesession!

 

[Imbackon]

The document I posted for reference earlier today explains this.

Cain walked in alone, came out, and told Kronk that he'd found a bag but it was "nothing" - simply leaves and twigs. Given that, Kronk would have had no reason to lead Cain anywhere. He believed Cain had found what he (Kronk) had seen and that it was "nothing".

Further details in the document are also interesting...

Plus don't forget Cain treated RK like he was an idiot .
I think this is why RK didn't push much at the time, as he felt that Cain was treating as such and maybe even felt a bit foolish and angry at the same time.

 

[BeanE]

Plus don't forget Cain treated RK like he was an idiot .
I think this is why RK didn't push much at the time, as he felt that Cain was treating as such and maybe even felt a bit foolish and angry at the same time.

Yes, Cain appears to have been disparaging and dismissive towards Kronk. I'd have been angry and frustrated if I were Kronk, and would not have pushed it further.

Thank God Kronk didn't give up completely, or we may never have found Caylee.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I believe RK did see caylee in August, and that he did not pursue it for two main reasons:

1-The snake. Had the snake not been there, he would have been more likely to have really gotten in there closer to show Officer Dopey what he was talking about.

2-The doubt we sometimes have about what exactly we saw, when rethinking things in hindsite. You can pass a woman in blue and then later mind-game yourself into thinking maybe it was purple. Maybe he was not absolutely convinced. And the officer would not help him, and the rain washed the place out a few days later....so he was able to push it to the back of his mind while he worked and lived a working man's life.

But note, it never really left his mind.

Yes, this could be looked at both ways I guess, but I have to be one to admit that if I lived or worked in that area, I may have been snooping around as much as I could get away with, and if I did see something like that....I'd have my whole family out there the next day looking at it with me, I would be obsessed until I knew for sure.

ETA-Kinda like I'm obsessed with finding answers through this forum.....but I think there's another thread about this obesession!

I have to admit I had to laugh when I heard your description of the officer who answered Kronks call.
Since this thread has mentioned witch doctors and people with mental capabilities beyond the norm, perhaps Roy Kronk should have enlisted a snake charmer to assist him in his search

 

[Wudge]

The document I posted for reference earlier today explains this.

Cain walked in alone, came out, and told Kronk that he'd found a bag but it was "nothing" - simply leaves and twigs. Given that, Kronk would have had no reason to lead Cain anywhere. He believed Cain had found what he (Kronk) had seen and that it was "nothing".

Further details in the document are also interesting...

That does not explain it to me.

Mr. Kronk knew exactly where the object he allegedly saw was. He could have made sure that Mr. Cain marched straight ahead to that spot. Mr. Cain would only have needed to take three to five steps.

From the accounts I read, I don't believe Mr. Kronk was at all interested in ensuring that Mr. Cain examined what Kronk allegedly saw. Don't ask me why, but that is yet another bad smell to me.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Regarding Tim protecting the names of the searchers......We have ALL seen innocent parties be vilified in the media. I don't believe TM has anything at all to "hide". I think that he is making a stand against the inevitable fishing expedition that will follow.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

I love the part in Kronk's interview with YM were he says "I noticed a black plastic bag laying there. And I saw like a dome in it....And I...."
Then YM asks "Did you open it, was it open?" RK: "No, it was closed" Then, YM "Okay, so it was just kind of like a, it was.... " RK: "Yeah, but I saw like a round dome"

So, my question is this....Was the bag open or closed Roy? And, if was closed like you stated then how did you see a round dome through a closed bag you didn't open?:waitasec:

 

[sleutherontheside]

I love the part in Kronk's interview with YM were he says "I noticed a black plastic bag laying there. And I saw like a dome in it....And I...."
Then YM asks "Did you open it, was it open?" RK: "No, it was closed" Then, YM "Okay, so it was just kind of like a, it was.... " RK: "Yeah, but I saw like a round dome"

So, my question is this....Was the bag open or closed Roy? And, if was closed like you stated then how did you see a round dome through a closed bag you didn't open?:waitasec:

Well, the bag could have had closed drawstrings, but been ripped open somewhere else on the bag.

 

[BeanE]

That does not explain it to me.

Mr. Kronk knew exactly where the object he allegedly saw was. He could have made sure that Mr. Cain marched straight ahead to that spot. Mr. Cain would only have needed to take three to five steps.

From the accounts I read, I don't believe Mr. Kronk was at all interested in ensuring that Mr. Cain examined what Kronk allegedly saw. Don't ask me why, but that is yet another bad smell to me.

Understood. My impression was different - that Kronk was definitely interested in having LE adequately check out what he saw, and made more than move to try, perhaps in his own somewhat reticent way, to ensure that, but gave up in the face of being told it was "nothing" as well as being treated in a disparaging and dismissive manner.

I hate to admit it, but I would have withdrawn as well.

 

[Wudge]

I love the part in Kronk's interview with YM were he says "I noticed a black plastic bag laying there. And I saw like a dome in it....And I...."
Then YM asks "Did you open it, was it open?" RK: "No, it was closed" Then, YM "Okay, so it was just kind of like a, it was.... " RK: "Yeah, but I saw like a round dome"

So, my question is this....Was the bag open or closed Roy? And, if was closed like you stated then how did you see a round dome through a closed bag you didn't open?:waitasec:

Mr. Kronk said the black plastic bag was closed, and he was not at all ambiguous about that.

As for Mr. Kronk seeing the black plastic having the shape of a 'dome', my take has always been that the black plastic was lying directly on the surface of the top part of Caylee's skull.

 

[Wudge]

Understood. My impression was different - that Kronk was definitely interested in having LE adequately check out what he saw, and made more than move to try, perhaps in his own somewhat reticent way, to ensure that, but gave up in the face of being told it was "nothing" as well as being treated in a disparaging and dismissive manner.

I hate to admit it, but I would have withdrawn as well.

Mr. Kronk was persistent with his calls. He kept calling until he got satisfaction; i.e., someone from LE was going to meet him at the target area.

Bounty hunters are not generally considered to be marshmellows, and Mr. Kronk does not come across as a marshmellow either.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Mr. Kronk said the black plastic bag was closed, and he was not at all ambiguous about that.

As for Mr. Kronk seeing the black plastic having the shape of a 'dome', my take has always been that the black plastic was lying directly on the surface of the top part of Caylee's skull.

My take was that it was inside by this conversation between YM and RK. If a bag were laying on top of the skull then you would use words like...Did you lift the bag up or did you remove it. And not statements like "Did you open it?" No, it was closed. How do you close a bag that is just laying on top of something covering it up?:waitasec:

 

[BeanE]

Well, the bag could have had closed drawstrings, but been ripped open somewhere else on the bag.

That has been my conclusion based on Kronk's statement as well as the autopsy report. That the top of the bag had been closed, with Caylee in it, then at some point the bag had ripped open - likely by animals (based on the autopsy report's finding of carnivore activity on the bones in Caylee's chest and leg areas.)

That's hurts very much to say that, and I apologise, but this matter of the bag being closed has been brought up in this thread several times, and the animal activity is a logical, reasonable, and likely explanation of the bag being closed at the top, but torn in another area.

God bless you, Caylee. Rest in peace.

 

[Rlaub44]

That does not explain it to me.

Mr. Kronk knew exactly where the object he allegedly saw was. He could have made sure that Mr. Cain marched straight ahead to that spot. Mr. Cain would only have needed to take three to five steps.

From the accounts I read, I don't believe Mr. Kronk was at all interested in ensuring that Mr. Cain examined what Kronk allegedly saw. Don't ask me why, but that is yet another bad smell to me.

BBM

Oh, but I have to ...

Why would anyone call the police to make a report, wait on scene for an officer to respond, then hope that the officer doesn't actually want to look?

I guess my common sense is working poorly today as well, but this sounds mighty bizarre. Is this what you are suggesting as a reasonable possibility, Wudge?

 

[Muzikman]

I simply used 98% as a stalking horse. I could have used 97% or 99% or another percentage and my post would remain true.

As regards a Kronk smog pot, I can't figure out why Mr. Kronk did not simply lead Mr. Cain to a place along the edge of the road that was directly in front of what he saw. He could have pointed to what he saw and asked Mr. Cain to march straight ahead (for 10 to 15 feet) and see what it is.

(This is yet another facet of Mr. Kronk's story that does not come together.)

BBM

So, Wudge, you think Caylee was just lying out in the open and could be easily spotted by anybody walking by there or in there?

My belief is that you have never searched in woods with thick vegetation - trees, palmetto bushes, picker bushes, vines etc. In Florida especially. And then throw in the swampy area that Caylee was tossed like garbage.

Those of us that HAVE done this, completely understand the situation in a way that you do not, and do not see a problem with the whole Kronk scenario - other than Cain being a pansy and not checking it out as thoroughly as he should have. And he is paying for that mistake.

Before you go on with this diatribe about Kronk, I suggest you find a nice dense wooded area with plenty of palmetto bushes, preferably swampy and with lots of vines. Then proceed to try to look under every bush, behind every thicket and behind every tree. Do this for a 1/16 mile, 100 feet wide. Have a friend place a couple filled garbage bags in there ahead of time, without telling you where, and then try to find them.

Then, and only then, may you begin to understand the entire situation with some clarity.

That the specific dump area was swampy until December will be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. That the area was heavily overgrown will be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. That Caylee was placed there in June 2008 will also be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, IMO.

And then Casey, and ONLY Casey, will be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to have tossed Caylee, her own daughter, there, with several layers of duct tape around her head and bagged like trash.


What I don't understand, is why some people just do not seem to want to see justice served, but instead focus on tiny technicalities that are but a sliver of the evidence against Casey.