In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[Spangle]

Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps to see the chronology of the activity in the area of Suburban Dr. It helps me to see the whole picture and how Kronk's sightings fit in.

Chronology of Suburban area:

July 19
* Detective Wells interviews Kiomarie Cruz while sitting in vehicle in front of Hidden Oaks Elementary- she tells him of teenage hangout in area of school

http://itsamysterytome.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/kiomarie-cruz-le-interview-transcript/

July 28
* Casey states to Lee -“In my gut she is still OK and it still feels like she is close to home”.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17018486/detail.html

August 4-
* Casey tells her father “She’s close” in a jailhouse visit
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17084757/detail.html

August 5-
* Phil Keating reports about search wooded area at elementary school based on tip

At 2:05 timestamp

YouTube - Aug 05 2008 - VID00005

* Phil Keating reports from Suburban and crew films the area – sited in defense documents- page 6

http://wdbo.com/common/pdf/orlando/AnthonyMotion-8-10-3.pdf

YouTube - Could Caylee's Remains Have Been Moved?

* article states woods near Anthony home were searched by LE using K-9 unit



http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17169920/detail.html

August 11
* Kronk places first 911 call

August 12
* Kronk places second 911 call

August 13
* Kronk places call to Caylee’s crime tip line

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530327/detail.html

August 18
* Hurricane Faye strikes Orlando area

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_Storm_Fay_(2008)

August 27
* TES announces search for Caylee – cannot search Suburban area because it is flooded

November 15
* Dominic Casey searches Suburban wooded area where Caylee’s remains are later discovered
http://www.wesh.com/news/18472776/detail.html

December 11
* Caylee’s remains are found by Roy Kronk

http://www.wesh.com/news/18253946/detail.html

Following the

August 13
* Kronk places call to Caylee’s crime tip line

August 14
CA and GA visit KC in jail. CA seems more upset this time. Like she KNOWS. KC tells GA that he was the greatest GF that Caylee could ever had. As in past tense. CA covers her mouth when KC says this. (not word for word quote)

 

[Wudge]

Can you please provide a link in which it states that the FBI's lab evidence is so non-credible that it can no longer be used as evidence in a court of law?


SNIP

Don't rewrite what you think I said, quote me.

 

[Wudge]

Roy Kronk said he (Cain) might have spent 3 seconds scanning the area. So Cain did look albeit only briefly, but did not see anything. And yes this attributed to the fact that Cain was derelict in his duty and was ultimately terminated for his actions.

I have yet to read or hear Mr. Kronk say that he directed Mr. Cain to what he allegedly saw in August and watched as Mr. Cain picked it up. If Caylee's remains were there in August and were, in fact, what he allegedly saw, Mr. Kronk is not without responsibility to ensure that what he allegedly saw was examined.

 

[LambChop]

Actually, Mr. Kronk is a private citizen and not responsible for what LE does or does not do. He turned in a report, it is up to LE to investigate. When an LE officer "cops" an attitude the last thing you want to do is challenge his integrity. Obviously Ofc. Cain's supervisors felt the same way because he no longer has a job. Citizens do not have a duty to report anything and the way Mr. Kronk is being treated could stop people from reporting crimes in the future.

 

[Rlaub44]

I have yet to read or hear Mr. Kronk say that he directed Mr. Cain to what he allegedly saw in August and watched as Mr. Cain picked it up. If Caylee's remains were there in August and were, in fact, what he allegedly saw, Mr. Kronk is not without responsibility to ensure that what he allegedly saw was examined.

BBM

How do you propose that Mr. Kronk was to force Officer Cain to do that? What highly reliable evidence do you have that Kronk has that responsibility? What is the mathematical percentage of responsibility that the citizen has in this matter?

Should we be considering charges against Mr. Kronk for failing this responsibility?

(No wonder people don't want to get involved anymore.)<chuckle>

 

[nobull]

If Caylee's remains were there in August and were, in fact, what he allegedly saw, Mr. Kronk is not without responsibility to ensure that what he allegedly saw was examined.

I agree. Which is why he called again, he wasn't satisfied the first time. Unless you are suggesting that he grab a uniformed officer by the arm and drag him through the woods against his will?

 

[Spangle]

I agree. Which is why he called again, he wasn't satisfied the first time. Unless you are suggesting that he grab a uniformed officer by the arm and drag him through the woods against his will?

Just asking an officer a question got me a ticket. I wouldn't want to see what would happen if I pulled that stunt.

 

[Wudge]

Actually, Mr. Kronk is a private citizen and not responsible for what LE does or does not do. He turned in a report, it is up to LE to investigate. When an LE officer "cops" an attitude the last thing you want to do is challenge his integrity. Obviously Ofc. Cain's supervisors felt the same way because he no longer has a job. Citizens do not have a duty to report anything and the way Mr. Kronk is being treated could stop people from reporting crimes in the future.

Mr. Kronk knew exactly where the, allegedly, suspicious item was. Mr. Kronk was right there when Mr. Cain went to investigate and Mr. Kronk certainly should have known if Mr. Cain was in the spot where the alleged suspicious item was. Moreover, Mr. Kronk did not tell Mr. Cain that the allegedly suspicious item was not where he searched.

Still worse, Mr. Kronk was a former bounty hunter. They are not known for being shrinking violets. At the very least, Mr. Kronk was responsible to ensure that Mr Cain searched exactly where he allegedly saw the suspicious item.

If Mr. Kronk goes on the witness stand and testifies he had no responsibility to direct and observe Mr. Cain to ensure that what Mr. Kronk allegedly saw was investigated by Mr. Cain, then Mr. Kronk will greatly assist the defense in destroying his own credibility.

FWIW

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I have yet to read or hear Mr. Kronk say that he directed Mr. Cain to what he allegedly saw in August and watched as Mr. Cain picked it up. If Caylee's remains were there in August and were, in fact, what he allegedly saw, Mr. Kronk is not without responsibility to ensure that what he allegedly saw was examined.

What do you think the probability is that, had poor Mr. Kronk taken a few steps and lifted the bag in question in the presence of Mr. Cain, this thread would be in existance?

 

[Wudge]

BBM

How do you propose that Mr. Kronk was to force Officer Cain to do that? What highly reliable evidence do you have that Kronk has that responsibility? What is the mathematical percentage of responsibility that the citizen has in this matter?

Should we be considering charges against Mr. Kronk for failing this responsibility?

(No wonder people don't want to get involved anymore.)<chuckle>

He didn't need to force anyone. He could have simply called and told LE that Mr. Cain did not search the place where he (allegedly) saw the suspicious item.

 

[Wudge]

What do you think the probability is that, had poor Mr. Kronk taken a few steps and lifted the bag in question in the presence of Mr. Cain, this thread would be in existance?

50/50

There are but two options. First option: Mr Kronk lifts the allegedly suspicious item in Mr. Cain's presence, and Caylee's remains become known. Second option: Mr. Kronk lifts the allegedly suspicious item and it is determined not to be Caylee's remains nor related to the case.

 

[marspiter]

The FBI lab has changed what they will stand behind as being reliable evidence. You can expect more changes in the future. The Lab's ugly history of scandal has taken its toll on their credibility. And contaminating the evidence in this case is certainly not going to raise their competency index.

HTH

Don't rewrite what you think I said, quote me.

You were quoted in my post and here is your quote again. Now can you please cite the link or reference where the FBI has changed how it stands behind its evidence?

Can you also cite a link or a reference to the ugly history of scandals in the FBI?

Also for reference can you narrow down a time period in which this ugly history of scandal took place? Are we talking modern day or McCarthy era?

Your pretty much stating as fact that do to this history of scandal with in the FBI it has had to change how it supports its own findings and the policies of its labs. I am asking for citation of such. I think that's fairly reasonable given that this was stated as fact.

Also do to this ugly history of scandal do the courts take evidence from the FBI differently. Given that these scandalous actions are apparently so rampant in the FBI. I would figure court systems acrossed the country would put forth measures to ensure the information presented by the FBI is accurate.

Is there any evidence of the court systems applying such measure specifically against the FBI's findings? Perhaps a disclaimer given in the jury instructions to put less weight on evidence examined by the FBI?

Also as new means of collecting evidence, and new technologies arise labs do change their policies to reflect this new way of collecting or analyzing evidence. Also much of the standards for dealing with and testing new technology and evidence arises through much trial and error. I am sure the standards for dealing with DNA are not the same today as they were when the technology first arrived.

Many of the FBI's lab policy changes probably arose out of this scenario and not because of scandal or conspiracies. Just my opinion though.

 

[BeanE]

He didn't need to force anyone. He could have simply called and told LE that Mr. Cain did not search the place where he (allegedly) saw the suspicious item.

He did. On December 11, 2008.

 

[MAMABEAR]

I just don't understand why Kronk is being picked apart. Poot---the man found the "REMAINS" of the 2 year old gurl whose mother murdered and shoved into a trash bag and thrown out on the side of the road for the lil animals to pick her bones and drag her lil bones from the spot her mother pitched her. To me----Kronk is a pretty shy type of guy. Now if I had been the one to find Caylee and the cop turned around and left---I would have told em to turn he butt around and git back in there and find that baby. But I didnt find Caylee---Kronk did. We can only say what we would have or would not have dun. I say that Kronk did the best he could and who r we to sit here at our key boards and run him down. Next I will be reading that the man was caught pickin he nose. For cryin out loud.

 

[LambChop]

As a bounty hunter, Mr. Kronk should know that once he reported what he saw he need not go back into that area to contaminate it. You are misplacing responsibility to a private citizen and not on the back of the police officer where it belongs. The officer said he picked up the bag and there was nothing in it so Mr. Kronk should argue, he should call Ofc. Cain's supervisor and complain?

I would be wondering more about the officer in question and what his connections were to officers he might know who dated KC. Seems to me the officer did not take the report seriously.

On the stand Mr. Kronk will say exactly what happened. And if defense tries to make Mr. Kronk look bad they will not fair too well with the jury. No one would want to be in Mr. Kronk's shoes for sure and haven't we all been in a position where we have had to report a crime. If everyone who has ever discovered a body were accused of some part in a crime no one would call 911.

 

[notthatsmart]

He did. On December 11, 2008.

I think on Dec 13th Roy met with Richard and thats the date that Roy met him out there. I dont think Roy called again after that to say he was not satisfied with the way Richard searched.

 

[LambChop]

LOL, Mamabear, I just love you.

 

[BeanE]

I think on Dec 13th Roy met with Richard and thats the date that Roy met him out there. I dont think Roy called again after that to say he was not satisfied with the way Richard searched.

You're kidding, right?

 

[BeanE]

As a bounty hunter, Mr. Kronk should know that once he reported what he saw he need not go back into that area to contaminate it. You are misplacing responsibility to a private citizen and not on the back of the police officer where it belongs. The officer said he picked up the bag and there was nothing in it so Mr. Kronk should argue, he should call Ofc. Cain's supervisor and complain?

I would be wondering more about the officer in question and what his connections were to officers he might know who dated KC. Seems to me the officer did not take the report seriously.

On the stand Mr. Kronk will say exactly what happened. And if defense tries to make Mr. Kronk look bad they will not fair too well with the jury. No one would want to be in Mr. Kronk's shoes for sure and haven't we all been in a position where we have had to report a crime. If everyone who has ever discovered a body were accused of some part in a crime no one would call 911.

I can't help but think there is a reason that the elephant in the room is being ignored.

 

[notthatsmart]

You're kidding, right?

Let me get this straight.

On August 13th Roy met with Richard. I dont think he called after that. I think his dispatch called police on Dec 11th.