Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #81

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If she had killed Daryl I might consider this a valid argument (as part of her M.O.)

Also, you ignored the evidence I provided that he knew the pictures were being taken. Thank you for responding, though! I like to hear the different theories people have.

I don't think she was "brandishing" the knife. She may have waited until he was standing up, maybe drying his hair-the towel would have blocked his view-or she kept the knife hidden until she attacked. Totally hidden, then a sudden, violent stab to the heart. The track of that wound I believe is slightly upward, which would jibe with him being standing. No time to close the door. This is of course just my thoughts on the subject, one of the many possible scenarios. MOO

Just from the look on Travis' face in the photos, I believe he was being threatened in most of the photos, if not all. Look at his fists clenched and hands crossing his chest, or his hands against the wall with his back facing Jodi, these are forced photos, and the last photo is telling. Maybe she shot him first (perfect angle) or he tried to get out of the shower to get away from her when she stabbed him, causing her to drop the camera (ceiling photo)
 
she has that "special" fog remember? Her own special memory loss fog that only happens during murders. She is getting really annoyed that people don't just let her get on with her life already. She has fog and Jodi feels that should be sufficient explanation.

People are right about her not being very bright. If she honestly thought she could peddle this tripe to a jury while being prosecuted by JM she has to be dumber than almost anyone I can think of....



One of my biggest problems besides the glaring obvious ones is that if I had just fought for my life in "Self Defense" The first thing I would have done after the threat was gone would be to call 911. I would not have any reason to not do that if I truly were defending myself against an attack. The fact she did not do that tells me its all a bunch of BS.
 
Again: I watch stuff so nice people don't have to. The gasping, gurgling agonal breathing of someone with their throat cut is unforgettable, just simply horrifying. If Jodi Arias wasn't already "freaked out" that would put her over the edge because the sound is so pointless. Someone with their throat cut has almost no chance of surviving, loses consciousness within 30 seconds, but the body persists and keeps trying. It's futility in action.

The way you describe the sequence of events is pretty much how I interpret them.

One thing I did notice was the possible relationship between the change in orientation of the back stab wounds and Jodi Arias cutting herself as the knife slipped.

In which case that slip might have given Travis Alexander enough time to make it, stumbling or crawling, down the hall, with Jodi after him, the mixed-blood left palm edge print caused by her having to chase after him and stabilize herself against the wall that momentum would carry her against.

Of course, that's supposition. I don't think even the aspirated blood in the sink represents anything we would think of as a "pause". A rage attack and victim's flight would be a flurry of continuous motion.

BBM. I am indeed grateful for those who do that! I can't bring myself to look at any of the shower photos, even the ones where he was alive, except for the one where he is facing the camera. They would give me nightmares for years. I would never be able to actually sit on this jury. It's funny, I can take people talking about the killing, can even talk about it myself, somewhat, but I can't look at those photos.
 
Hello all!! Just a random thought but I think that another thing that's going to really help convict JA of 1st degree & have them really consider the DP for the punishment is the following: once the jury gets back to deliberate, that they're going to see that they should consider the stabbing of TA especially cruel (of the heinous, atrocious, &/or cruel that's needed to consider DP) and this going to be the lightbulb moment for them as to "ohhh that's why she all of a sudden doesn't remember THAT specific part of the killing" (but is able to remember everything else -just about- leading up to that as well as afterwards) and it's going to further expose to them just how much of a manipulating weasel that she is (if they didnt already know) and will prove how calculating that she can be. I think that this will go to angering them more and proving to them how much more of a deserving candidate that JA is for the DP instead of LIPWOP. I'm not saying that this will be the deciding factor on how the jury chooses JA punishment, but it will go a LONG way in proving just how cruel that she is. And cruel is one of the requirements that needs to be met in order for them to choose the DP.
 
I don't think we can know that for sure. We do know that MM when he visited the RTC went straight over to the TFS in order to pick up some UNB. We also know that DB was at the KLS at about that time. Upon arrival of the DSW the others from WSD claimed vehemently that all of the TRR was up in the UOL which if true confirms that MM was indeed with JA particularly during the VFD.

I guess I am even dumber than I thought I was :confused:
All I can understand out of that entire quote, is Matt McCartney and Darryl Brewer. All of the rest of that sentence sounds like Snoopy Talking to me because I cannot understand him either WAA-WAA -WAA :wink:

Can someone please help a sister out with all of these abbreviations?
 
The mother and the aunt see their child getting what she deserves. She is being publicly humiliated by her manipulations and lying not working. It is a form of justice for them, too, you know. They always said she would end up in jail. Their behavior is not classy, of course, but they have barred her from their home and distanced themselves from her for years. They may also have the genes for sociopathy. She is the classic "bad seed" and if they can benefit in any way from her celebrity, in their view, she owes them.
QUOTE]

Snipped and BBM

I have not heard that family barred her from their homes or distanced themselves from her for years. I am not sure they see her as getting what she deserves.

The mother tried to sell the fake pedophile letters to the National Enquirer.

No doubt there is a lot that has gone on in the family that we'll never know. When Det. Flores says in one of the interviews that her family is "concerned but not surpised" was very interesting. I would love to know what the parents said to him when he spoke to them.

I think JA was a self centered brat that threw temper tantrums when she didn't get what she wanted or when those around her didn't jump high enough for her. I suspect they've had a distant relationship since JA moved out at the age of 17.
 
Just from the look on Travis' face in the photos, I believe he was being threatened in most of the photos, if not all. Look at his fists clenched and hands crossing his chest, or his hands against the wall with his back facing Jodi, these are forced photos, and the last photo is telling. Maybe she shot him first (perfect angle) or he tried to get out of the shower to get away from her when she stabbed him, causing her to drop the camera (ceiling photo)

Did any of you see the similarities in the way Jodi had Travis pose in the shower and the screenshots from the movie Psycho? Here is the link:
http://www.chathousenews.com/2013/02/the-shower-scene-jodi-arias-chat-house.html

This is brought over from the Q & A thread. Scary!
 
Possibly while he was shaving? That's how the knife wounds to the back came from?

IMO the stab wounds to his back occurred when Travis was crawling down his halfway trying to get away from his murderer.
 
My thoughts as well. She armed herself again for a reason. Already under suspicion for one murder why reload and cast even more suspicion on yourself ? Suicide, I dont think so ! This part of the case still baffles me. Someone was next, someone who knew too much or knew exactly what happened.

That freaks me out! She must have had murder on her mind! You'd think that Travis' murder would have traumatized her but it didn't. I forget she's a psychopath. Once creatures like her get a taste of blood they want more and more.

Remember Scott Peterson had ropes, knives and a recently printed out map to Amber Frey's workplace when he was arrested? Who knows what was on his mind.

These psychopaths are like Bengal Tigers.They have to be put to death as soon as get a taste of human blood. If not they will kill again and again....
 
I have asked several times, but can't get a response that makes sense...why would Jodi take pictures of Travis in the shower without his knowledge? Nothing about this hypothesis makes sense to me. I can't understand why people think Jodi would have done this especially since neither side has suggested It. And no, I don't accept "that's just crazy Jodi" as a good answer!

Why it doesn't make sense:
1. Use of flash
2. He's looking right in the camera at the end
3. He's clearly posing in the pics of his back
4. She deleted the pictures (not blackmail)
5. She planned to kill him....in the shower and this was a way to get him in there and not have him be suspicious about why she's in the bathroom with him

Please, someone enlighten me.

I agree. The idea of him not knowing makes zero sense. <mod snip>. There is something so diabolical about the thought of her sneaking in and stalking him with the camera, or holding him at gun point and demanding he pose. It is so intoxicating to think about that they are kind of willing it to be true for the titillation factor.
 
I should add, I have no idea where the 9MM came from. I thought she said she bought it, so would there be a record of that? If so, that kinda blows my theory. If she bought it from one of her male friends.....my theory still fits. Actually, it could lead to the person that is covering for her. Anybody know where the gun came from?
 
Not to be gross, but have you ever seen the infamous R. Budd Dwyer suicide footage? Dwyer was treasurer of the State of Pennsylvania in the late 80s caught up in a corruption scandal over procurement contracts. He held a press conference, rambled on a bit, then reached into a manila envelope, pulled out a .357 magnum revolver and, before anyone could stop him, put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

The effect was instantaneous. He dropped like someone kicked out his knees. The bullet went through the roof of his mouth, through his sinuses and exited out the top of his head just behind his frontal lobes.

Not only did he drop immediately, but the amount of blood that came from not his mouth, or the top of his head, but out his nose was so copious that, quite frankly, it looked fake.

Although he used a larger, more powerful bullet, the track of the bullet is very similar to that of Travis Alexander, just with entrance and exit reversed, both transversed the brain and sinuses.

Even with a smaller round the cavitation through the entire brain would have been like being hit with a baseball bat. The amount of hemorrhaging through the nose and mouth would be massive and not the "coughed up blood" seen in the sink, which seems to be a result of the knife strike to the inferior vena cava that probably nicked lung structure, the esophagus, or both.

I just can't see anyone being shot in the head, get up from a squatting position in a shower stall, fight their way out of the stall and pause at the mirror for a look.

Since the "shot first" argument doesn't agree with the Medical Examiner's findings, precedents in gunshot wounds, the timeline of the murder and a whole bunch of stuff, can someone explain to me the significance (or agenda) of insisting the head shot came first?

The "shot first theory" has a lot going for it. Please see the copious posts on this theory elsewhere.

You cite an example above depicting someone taking a large caliber gun, pointing it into his mouth and shooting himself. This example has NOTHING to do with the GSW in the JA/TA case.

If the pathway of the .25 caliber bullet fragment had penetrated the center of the brain ie the midbrain, the pons, the supraclinoid carotid arteries, the basal ganglia, the internal capsule and other “elegant areas of grey matter” then TA would have been immediately incapacitated. This was NOT the case with TA.

Once again – The ME demonstrated ONLY an entry wound above the right brow, passing into the right frontal bone, across the leptomeninges, and downward across the anterior frontal lobe, with an exit somewhere just to the left of midline – the planum sphenoidale, into the pterygopalatine fossa and on into the left masticator space, with a final resting place near the left mandibular condyle. Based on this trajectory no elegant areas are destroyed.

And to reiterate= this wound has NOTHING to do with the example above where somebody aimed a gun into an open mouth followed on by the bullet traversing critical areas of the cerebrum and brainstem including cerebral arteries , mid brain, pons. The resultant clinical injury from this sort of GSW is instantaneous loss of consciousness and death.
 
I should add, I have no idea where the 9MM came from. I thought she said she bought it, so would there be a record of that? If so, that kinda blows my theory. If she bought it from one of her male friends.....my theory still fits. Actually, it could lead to the person that is covering for her. Anybody know where the gun came from?

She bought it legally. Background check and everything.
 
I should add, I have no idea where the 9MM came from. I thought she said she bought it, so would there be a record of that? If so, that kinda blows my theory. If she bought it from one of her male friends.....my theory still fits. Actually, it could lead to the person that is covering for her. Anybody know where the gun came from?

She "stated" she bought it from some store and there was about a 10 day waiting period for it.
 
Katiecoolady, I found this poem written by a murder victim from one of Juan Martinez' trials (Deana Bowdoin). Her sister came to her trial every day and filled notebooks & then typed them all into her computer. It reminded me of you so much!


I see you unreachable, untouchable.
Eternally gone yet unbearably close.
All that concerns you I know, love and
worship in my lonely way.
Even though I&#8217;m left with nothing else in
the world but my soul,
You and your memory will forever ling-
er with me.
... And as I look upon you with admira-
tion and understanding,
I can see life through your eyes.
You&#8217;re beautiful.
 
My thoughts as well. She armed herself again for a reason. Already under suspicion for one murder why reload and cast even more suspicion on yourself ? Suicide, I dont think so ! This part of the case still baffles me. Someone was next, someone who knew too much or knew exactly what happened.

I totally agree. The exact same weapons again were prepared. Knives and a gun again. Thank goodness the police did a good job in stopping her when they did. I truly believe they saved someones life and it wasnt Jodis. She is not the type to kill herself. She can easily kill others though.
 
As you mentioned the .25 and a .357 are totally different as far as power. The .25 is notoriously small and is basically 1 step up from a .22. But even though we know they can do a lot of damage too, it is the trajectory path that the bullet followed that is important. From what little I remember hearing about the path I seem to recall it missed most of his brain. I think it did hit his sinus cavities.

But in any event, there are tons of cases of people being shot and still having the wherewithall to keep moving for some period of time. It all depends and each case is totally different.

I dont want to bring up the chicken that lived for some months without its head again.

Not trying to convince anyone differently but I think the shot came first for a lot of reasons. One main reason is she brought the gun there and for her it would be the easiest way to kill him without getting too close to him and risk him stopping her. I think she brought it there and used it as her primary weapon. When the shell jammed, it ruined her initial plan.

By the way, small caliber guns like the .25 are notorious for jamming when you dont buy shells that have extra gunpowder. She would not have known that probably. I always buy special shells for all my semi-autos and it helps prevent gun jamming. It is the number of grains of powder that is listed on the box that you have to know what is regular and what is above average to use.

You are correct as well about the difference in power, but you have to keep in mind that a measure of a bullet's destructive power isn't just the caliber, but the velocity of the round. For example, you really couldn't hurt someone with a .50 caliber round if you just threw it at them. What a bullet does is not only bore a hole, but impart the kinetic energy of its velocity into the thing that it strikes. Which is why in the never-ending arguments over "stopping power" the concepts of "penetration" is so important. A .22 long penetrates a lot more than a .45, but the .45, even though it is lower velocity, imparts more of its energy into a target. Military rounds like the .223, basically .22 caliber, but longer, are designed to tumble to impart more energy into the target.

So many times talking about the difference between a .25 and a .357 in a contained space like a skull, is like arguing about which is worse, falling from 100 feet or 1000 feet when they answer is, as far as being dead, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Bullets have a sort of "terminal velocity" where the difference between blasting a cavitation wave through the brain and blowing someone's head clean off doesn't make any difference from the point of view of how dead they are.

The Medical Examiner was very clear that the bullet entered the brain. It didn't pass thorough the center of the brain, but it would have imparted energy through the brain as a whole.

Yes, people have survived head wounds, notably Gabby Giffords shot with a 9 mm. That doesn't mean she was running around immediately afterwards.

All recoil-operated self-loading pistols are subject to jamming when an underpowered round is used. However, most of the time that doesn't mean the spent shell doesn't eject, only that the next round doesn't feed properly. Often the solution is to pull the slide back, in which case the tell-tale sign of a jammed gun is an unfired round cleared from the ejection port.

The whole issue of jamming is just ad hoc rationalization to explain why only one round was fired when the tendency of people firing a gun is to keep firing. As we know little about the gun, the condition it was in, the ammunition, or any other relevant factors, then the issue of jamming is just an assumption to support another assumption which, alone, doesn't fit the opinion of the medical examiners, or physical evidence such as the spend casing laying in a pool of blood, or inductive generalizations about what people do when they are shot in the head.

Also, I don't get how Mike the Headless Chicken is analogous.
 
She "stated" she bought it from some store and there was about a 10 day waiting period for it.
Thx. Somehow I keep forgetting that NOTHING that comes out of her mouth is to be trusted. I sure would love to see that police report, and the searches they made.
Do you think they are available to the public somewhere?
 
I'm a great advocate of the fine art of typing things out unless they are well-established abbreviations or acronyms such as the FBI.

As a newb here, I still have to stop and pause when I see someone write:

"IMO JA is just like KC but KT is no JB, but regardless of the DT they should have both gotten the DP, if only JM tried both cases, he would have won over either PD, MOO, and I wish JVM would replace NG on HLN because I'm tired of hearing about MM and RB, and IDK about DB, but I think he's an AATF."

JM2C, UC

You have me rolling on the floor! I understand! Even though I am an old dog.


IMO - IN MY OPINION
KC - Casey Anthony from the Florida trial. Mother of Caylee. Often abbreviated FCA ... folks on the thread will say it means felon, but we all know what the letter means .
KT that maybe a typo for the nurmi name? current defense attorney
JM is Juan ...wonderful prosecuting attorney!
PD- there are 2 Public Defenders now. Wilmont and Nurmi
Moo- my own opinion
JVM - Jane Velez Mitchell on HLN station at 7 p.m. every night
NG - Nancy Grace, known as the entertainment lady by Jose Baez! Who has a show on HLN Monday through Thursday and also Friday now on the channel HLN.
Matthew McCartney - old boyfriend from way back of hers that we think that he did the letters stating that Travis was a pedophille, and his own handwriting, which was thrown out of court 2 years ago. the prosecutor has been referring to him often. And there is more to the story on him we all think.
RB - this is Ryan burns and this is who she visited in Salt Lake City area right after she killed Travis.
IDK is a common and frequently used here, to mean I do not know
DB IS THE OLD FRIEND BOYFRIEND DARRELL. THE 1 WHO HAS THE Son AND WE ONLY SAW THE HANDS ON THE TELEVISION. Darrell is the 1 that she visited and is the issue with the remote. And lots of other stuff too.

HTH!!! that means hope this helps!




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