Interracial Couple Denied Marriage License By Louisiana Judge

[Nova]

Our own Southern belle! :crazy:

All this attention is giving me the vapors!

 

[Nova]

I didn't know you were raised in the South Nova.

However she is right about stereotyping. If it is wrong it is wrong....regardless of what some idiots do......

She is right. But there are degrees of wrongness. Southern stereotypes may offend some, but they are rather proudly and loudly embraced by many in the South (and elsewhere, since in fact the Bubba Nation knows no strict boundaries).

Moreover, those same stereotypical beliefs and traits are employed to oppress others, which makes the stereotypes proper targets of satire.

In other words, there's a difference between stereotyping the powerFUL and stereotyping the powerLESS.

 

[Nova]

As a representative of USA government, albeit on a small scale, this man did NOT have the right to base his decisions on the race of the bride and groom. He clearly is in the wrong.

While we are all happy and relieved to hear that he has stepped down, it is worthwhile to note that he has been under intense pressure to resign since day 1. The governor condemned the jp's decision, and asked him to step down. This man is so entrenched in his beliefs and so stubborn that it took way too long for him to realize he had done something wrong.

It is indeed worthwhile to note!

Since we are discussing stereotypes, I second kgeaux that the point of this episode is not that one man clings to Neanderthal beliefs, but that he was roundly condemned for his discrimination--in the very heart of Dixie!

 

[elle1919]

What Cyberlaw said.

My favorite part of the article;

"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."

Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said.

Just bouncing off your post here, but oh my. He doesn't " believe" in mixing races that way? What is he bartender when he isn't on the bench?

Our country isn't built around his beliefs, this guy is cooked, I really hope that this couple seeks out some major publicity. They should write Ellen D. as a former resident of that state I bet she would love to have this couple on and let them tell their story!

 

[PorcineGranny]

I'm not so sure the magistrate was wrong in the sense that is being examined. He has a right to his personal beliefs and opinions, he is not obligated to marry anyone. I think his mistake was announcing his personal beliefs while in the application of his job in this politically correct world. All of us have opinions that may not be accepted with everyone.
I may have a few opinions like that myself. lol.

 

[Nova]

I'm not so sure the magistrate was wrong in the sense that is being examined. He has a right to his personal beliefs and opinions, he is not obligated to marry anyone. I think his mistake was announcing his personal beliefs while in the application of his job in this politically correct world. All of us have opinions that may not be accepted with everyone.
I may have a few opinions like that myself. lol.

Just this magistrate, or are you saying that all civil servants have a right to selectively perform their jobs based on their racial prejudices?

'Cause I'm pretty sure that would be unconstitutional.

As for your opinions, on the other hand, you have every right to those, whether or not they are "politically correct." The magistrate has that same right.

 

[PorcineGranny]

Nova, No, I am just talking about magistrates, I have personal intimate knowledge of them and how they look at this situation. Most are just average people, with their own ideas, and normally alot of them are older men and you just can't tell them anything. Since that was opinion he should not have shared it with the couple while in a public position. Magistrates are asked by people to marry them when they are not on the clock. Thats why they have the right to refuse. Now, if he was on public duty and they had a legal license, he should have married them without any opinion and let them be on their way. Because in that instance he should follow the laws of the state without inserting his opinion, but if he was on his own time and they insisted upon a marriage service, then he would be able to refrain from that action.

 

[MeoW333]

Nova, No, I am just talking about magistrates, I have personal intimate knowledge of them and how they look at this situation. Most are just average people, with their own ideas, and normally alot of them are older men and you just can't tell them anything. Since that was opinion he should not have shared it with the couple while in a public position. Magistrates are asked by people to marry them when they are not on the clock. Thats why they have the right to refuse. Now, if he was on public duty and they had a legal license, he should have married them without any opinion and let them be on their way. Because in that instance he should follow the laws of the state without inserting his opinion, but if he was on his own time and they insisted upon a marriage service, then he would be able to refrain from that action.

Nothing to do with "on the clock", the man was a racist !

"A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have. Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long."

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html&cp

"Bardwell said he asks everyone who calls about marriage if they are a mixed race couple. If they are, he does not marry them, he said."


I hope they sue him for the principle of the matter, obviously he is a racist.

 

[MissieMt]

She is right. But there are degrees of wrongness. Southern stereotypes may offend some, but they are rather proudly and loudly embraced by many in the South (and elsewhere, since in fact the Bubba Nation knows no strict boundaries).

Moreover, those same stereotypical beliefs and traits are employed to oppress others, which makes the stereotypes proper targets of satire.

In other words, there's a difference between stereotyping the powerFUL and stereotyping the powerLESS.

.....so since when are white southerners powerful and african americans powerless?:waitasec:

 

[Steely Dan]

IIRC, the only time racism or sexism is allowed is when the property is privately owned. This is why private golf courses can discriminate against certain people, women and blacks to name a couple. (Interestingly, Tiger Woods plays PGA events at Country Clubs he wouldn't be allowed to join.)

If the property is open to the public then discrimination is illegal. I.E. restaurants, government buildings and such. A person at the DMV cannot refuse to issue a license to anyone. Teenagers have a higher rate of accidents, but a DMV worker can't deny them a license because they want to save the kids.

Also, I believe this case isn't about the timing. It sounds like they were calling up to set up a time to do it. Most weddings don't just happen spur of the moment. So saying he refused due to timing is questionable. If they wanted to be married on Sept. 17th and he was already booked then he could say no. However, he cannot deny someone, and can't even ask someone on the phone, if they are a mixed race couple.

:cow:

 

[Nova]

.....so since when are white southerners powerful and african americans powerless?:waitasec:

Since the first African slaves arrived in Florida in the 1560s (early 1600s in Virginia).

I'm not saying every white individual is powerful and every black individual is powerless. Obviously not, at least not today.

But stereotypes deal with generalities and history, so the general power of each group relative to the other is the point.

More importantly, my original point was that if Southerners don't like stereotypes, we should stop embracing them and holding them up as ideals.

 

[Nova]

Nova, No, I am just talking about magistrates, I have personal intimate knowledge of them and how they look at this situation. Most are just average people, with their own ideas, and normally alot of them are older men and you just can't tell them anything. Since that was opinion he should not have shared it with the couple while in a public position. Magistrates are asked by people to marry them when they are not on the clock. Thats why they have the right to refuse. Now, if he was on public duty and they had a legal license, he should have married them without any opinion and let them be on their way. Because in that instance he should follow the laws of the state without inserting his opinion, but if he was on his own time and they insisted upon a marriage service, then he would be able to refrain from that action.

Then the magistrate in question had a right to refuse to perform the marriage because he was too busy or just didn't want to be bothered.

He did not have the right to refuse to perform the marriage because of the potential spouses' races.

Yes, he could have saved himself trouble by keeping his reasoning to himself. But that wouldn't have changed the legality or the morality of the issue.

His age may be explanatory, but it's morally and legally irrelevant. The Supreme Court ruled that anti-miscegenation laws were racist and illegal over half a century ago! A judge--of all people--has had plenty of time to learn and adjust to the law.

 

[kgeaux]

I'm not so sure the magistrate was wrong in the sense that is being examined. He has a right to his personal beliefs and opinions, he is not obligated to marry anyone. I think his mistake was announcing his personal beliefs while in the application of his job in this politically correct world. All of us have opinions that may not be accepted with everyone.
I may have a few opinions like that myself. lol.

He is INDEED obligated NOT TO BASE HIS SERVICES upon anything that denies a person or persons their basic civil rights. As an owner of rental properties, I cannot rent my house to "white only" or "black only" or even "single race only".........the race of the applying renters isn't even noted on the applications. Why? Because I am no allowed under the law to decide based upon race. This man isn't either. And his obligation to uphold the law is even more serious than mine, because he was an ARM OF THE LAW in his job as justice of the peace. The moment his "personal beliefs" interfered with the laws of this country, he was obligated to step down. And that should have been years ago. Heck, this racist shouldn't even have applied for the position of justice of the peace.

I am happy to inform all of Websleuths that things are a'changing in the South. We have more and more mixed race couples (not talking just white and black, but mixtures of all sorts!) and NOBODY around here says a word against it. Their children are happily accepted by granny & gramps on both sides of the families, and have been for YEARS.

My husband comes from overseas, and he has taught many of us so much about acceptance of other cultures. We have always chosen to live in multi-ethnic, multi-racial neighborhoods to be sure our children would have very early experiences with others who are not like us. Our church is 90% the opposite race than I am, and I have never felt anything but love and complete acceptance from my brothers and sisters of the church.

Granny, I just used your post as a jumping off place, almost 100% of this post is not in answer to any point you made! I just got all excited and didn't want people to think this man's beliefs are common.

 

[MissieMt]

Since the first African slaves arrived in Florida in the 1560s (early 1600s in Virginia).

I'm not saying every white individual is powerful and every black individual is powerless. Obviously not, at least not today.

But stereotypes deal with generalities and history, so the general power of each group relative to the other is the point.

More importantly, my original point was that if Southerners don't like stereotypes, we should stop embracing them and holding hem up as ideals.

Not sure who "we" is supposed to be here, but I certainly don't embrace those stereotypes which reflect negatively on southerners, and I don't know many people who do. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know who does.

 

[Nova]

Not sure who "we" is supposed to be here, but I certainly don't embrace those stereotypes which reflect negatively on southerners, and I don't know many people who do. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know who does.

Turn on country radio.

Don't get me wrong: I like country music, I've even written some, and I know it can be quite varied nowadays. Nonetheless, "I'm fat, drunk and stupid, and proud of it!" is a common theme.

Or you can listen to a speech by any number of Southern politicians.

And then there's a Louisiana magistrate that comes to mind.

Southern anti-intellectualism is a rather strong tradition. It shouldn't surprise us when it inspires a few jokes.

 

[MissieMt]

It doesn't surprise me when jokes are made. Jokes are made about every type of stereotype out there. BUT, I don't think everyone finds them funny or unoffensive.
Your post makes it sound like you are speaking for every southerner out there. And in my posts I'm just saying that you are not. Southerners embracing their stereotypes is like the fat kid making jokes about his weight.

 

[Trino]

According to LA law, this man did not have to perform any marriage, so, legally, he did not break LA law. The State of LA needs to change their laws to prevent this from happening again.

 

[kgeaux]

According to LA law, this man did not have to perform any marriage, so, legally, he did not break LA law. The State of LA needs to change their laws to prevent this from happening again.

He is being sued for denying their civil rights, and believe me, the couple will win. The minute he said he "routinely" turned down inter-racial couples, his goose was cooked.

And yes, so many of our laws need to be changed. Several years ago, the newspaper printed some of the old laws still on Louisiana books. It was pretty amusing and horrifying all at the same time.

 

[PorcineGranny]

Nova I just wanted to tell you that most times magistrates do not have any particular legal training. They are retired law enforcement or somebody's buddy who got them the job. They are loosely called judges cause thats what they do in small claims court, but they are not really judges in the sense we usually consider. So when you say, a judge of all people should not have made this mistake, I am saying they aren't really judges, they are just folks.

And they don't work for the federal government but are state employees.

 

[angelmom]

He is being sued for denying their civil rights, and believe me, the couple will win. The minute he said he "routinely" turned down inter-racial couples, his goose was cooked.

And yes, so many of our laws need to be changed. Several years ago, the newspaper printed some of the old laws still on Louisiana books. It was pretty amusing and horrifying all at the same time.

And it isn't just LA! There are some crazy laws everywhere.

http://www.oddee.com/item_96828.aspx