Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

[SyraKelly]

There were a few experts that did say P's could have written the RN
I need to look up the links

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No matter how much people want to believe the RS are innocent
those GJ thought otherwise and there is nothing the IDI can do about it
P,J and B did and will have to live with that for the rest of there lives

Tezi-you are one smart person when it comes to this case
((((HUGS))))

The GJ indictment does not have anything to do with that. It is just about is there enough evidence to take them to trial for murder and the answer was no. There were no murder charges leveled against the R's.


Remember this is the IDI thread, We are allowed to not support RDI theories here. It is about OTHER theories than that.

I am not an IDI. I am a person that believe that the Ramseys did not commit this crime.

 

[SyraKelly]

You are wrong
they indicted them on 2 counts...they thought there was enough evidence to take to trial
but AH made the choice not to-WHY-Prolly b/c he is not a truthful man and did not want his backdoor dealings coming out
I never said anything about RDI
I said they have to live with the fact the GJ DID indict them

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You are wrong
they indicted them on 2 counts...they thought there was enough evidence to take to trial
but AH made the choice not to-WHY-Prolly b/c he is not a truthful man and did not want his backdoor dealings coming out
I never said anything about RDI
I said they have to live with the fact the GJ DID indict them

Not on murder. Probably does not matter. He said it was because he felt there was not enough evidence and I agree with him looking at it all and with this indictment.

It makes sense that if you take something to the gj for murder and they don't come back with a murder indictment that you would not go forward from there. If he signed it that would have been that. Move on to the case. But he didn't and I agree with that.

 

[SyraKelly]

Not on murder. Probably does not matter. He said it was because he felt there was not enough evidence and I agree with him looking at it all and with this indictment.

It makes sense that if you take something to the gj for murder and they don't come back with a murder indictment that you would not go forward from there. If he signed it that would have been that. Move on to the case. But he didn't and I agree with that.

No there was not a murder indictment
BUT-they did feel both played a role in her death
if they did not believe that,they would not have indicted them at all!!
this was not just a murder..she suffered from many different injuries
they saw that and indicted them on those 2 counts
If AH was so upstanding in this case
Tell me why he did not sign the indictment and take it in front of the judge and tell the judge-he felt there was not enough evidence to take to trial
But instead he hid the fact they were indicted on 2 counts and told everyone there was no indictment
they all lied about it FOR YRS....

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No there was not a murder indictment
BUT-they did feel both played a role in her death
if they did not believe that,they would not have indicted them at all!!
this was not just a murder..she suffered from many different inguries
they saw that and indicted them on those 2 counts
If AH was so upstanding in this case
Tell me why he did not sign the indictment and take it in front of the judge and tell the judge-he felt there was not enough evidence to take to trial
But instead he hid the fact they were indicted on 2 counts and told everyone there was no indictment
they all lied about FOR YRS....

What role? They watched? They let someone else kill her and just stood by?

It makes no sense. There is no murder charge. That is what he was looking for. It was not there. Even the GJ said no to murder charges. That is it.

The GJ said there was not enough evidence. There was no indictment for murder. He did not lie.

 

[tezi]

Exactly. So, here's a bit more evidence to consider: (...according to the experts.)

No Ramsey was Identified as the Author of the RN:

Six experts; Ubowski (CBI), Dusak (US Secret Service), Alford, Cunningham, Rile, Speckin; analyzed the original ransom note, verifiable historical exemplars, and numerous prompted samples of specific words/phrases. Yet, none of the 6 experts identified a Ramsey as the note's author.


Missing Pages from the Notepad:

From IRMI, pages 73-74: "Ubowski had determined that the first twelve pages were missing and the next four - pages 13 through 16 - contained doodles and lists and some miscellaneous writing. But the next group of pages, 17 through 25, were also missing from the tablet.
...
Comparisons of the ragged tops of the ransom note pages with the remnants left in the tablet proved that it had come from pages 27, 28, and 29.
...
Furthermore, the ink bleedthrough discovered on page 26 indicated that perhaps still another practice note could have been written on page 25 and been discarded.
...
We never found the missing pages." (Thomas, 2001)

Ubowski believed she wrote the note, he just wouldn't testify to it. ST's book is the source for that.

 

[SyraKelly]

What role? They watched? They let someone else kill her and just stood by?

It makes no sense. There is no murder charge. That is what he was looking for. It was not there. Even the GJ said no to murder charges. That is it.

The GJ said there was not enough evidence. There was no indictment for murder. He did not lie.

You are playing word games here and I see through it
The GJ thought both of them had a role in her death
thats why they indicted them on 2 counts
SS-There are other crimes besides murder here
you just don't take a murder charge to the GJ
You take all the crimes to the GJ
it is clear they saw other crimes committed here by both J & P
But AH let them walk on those other charges....
he is a lying,corrupt DA

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You are playing word games here and I see through it
The GJ thought both of them had a role in her death
thats why they indicted them on 2 counts
SS-There are other crimes besides murder here
you just don't take a murder charge to the GJ
You take all the crimes to the GJ
it is clear they saw other crimes committed here by both J & P
But AH let them walk on them...

No, I am not playing any games. It says exactly that. They were indicted on tow counts of letting something happen to her. That is not murder. Nor even manslaughter. They did not even vote for manslaughter.

There was no murder indictment. AH did not lie.

 

[Mama2JML]

Ubowski believed she wrote the note, he just wouldn't testify to it. ST's book is the source for that.

Steve Thomas Depo (CW vs. Rs):

"Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Mr. Thomas, if you would look at page 152 of your book. Next to the last paragraph, it ends "'I believe she wrote it.'.Ubowski had recently told one detective "'I believe she wrote it.'" Who was --

A. Yeah, may I read the paragraph?

Q. Yeah, I want to find out who that detective is.

A. I believe that's Trujillo and Wickman who made that statement, specifically Wickman, which John Eller certainly also heard.

Q. Anybody else?

A. I think this was Tom Koby. This was that meeting I described in a vehicle at the parking lot of the shopping mall, Koby, Eller, Wickman, Trujillo, and I don't know whether or not that's on tape.

Q. But isn't the bottom line that Chet Ubowski made it very clear that, whatever his beliefs were, he was not in a position from his standpoint to state under oath that Patsy Ramsey was the author within any degree of certainty; isn't that what he told you, sir?

A. No, the conduit was Wickman who said something very similar to that that he couldn't get on the stand and testify to it.

Q. And that never changed while you were there, did it, that Ubowski would not get on the stand and testify to it, right?

A. Yeah, as far as I know Ubowski never took the stand and testified to it.

Q. And it was always your understanding that he said that he was not in a position to do so from an opinion standpoint; isn't that true?

A. To take the stand?

Q. He would not go under oath and testify that Patsy Ramsey within reasonable certainty was the author of the note?

A. Well, the reasonable certainty I recall I think it was Mr. Ubowski speaking at the VIP presentation and I would like to see a transcript of that because I thought --

Q. I thought maybe --

A. -- his answer or his remarks were fairly strong there. But no, he was obviously not in a position to take the stand and make that identification in court.

Q. Am I right, maybe I went over this and I apologize, did Mr. Ubowski in his report say "There is evidence which indicates that the ransom note may have been written by Patsy Ramsey but the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion." That's Mr. Ubowski's opinion, right?

A. That's his formal report opinion.

Q. Did you ever know that opinion to change before August of 1998 when you left?

A. To get stronger or weaker?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Had you seen that article from KCNC from April 10, 2000, before I just showed it to you today?

A. No, as I've said, I wasn't aware that Mr. Ubowski was retracting any statements prior to you're making me aware of that today.

Q. If this is correct Mr. Ubowski is in fact stating on April 10, 2000 that he denies saying that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and that he, the claim that 24 of the alphabet's 26 letters looked like -- looked as if they had been written by Patsy is denied as the lab does not quantify like that? You have never heard those statements made by the CBI before I showed you this KCNC report today?

A. No, as I have said, no."

 

[Tawny]

Go to trial for what??? Who killed her? They were not indicted for murder. That was what the GJ was supposed to be looking for. Was there enough to charge these two with murder. and there wasn't. So he did not sign it. Maybe he thought later there would be more information and try again but I don't have any issue with him not signing it especially with that it said.

OMO

No matter how much people want to believe the RS are innocent
those GJ thought otherwise and there is nothing the IDI can do about it
P,J and B did and will have to live with that for the rest of there lives

Tezi-you are one smart person when it comes to this case
((((HUGS))))

Not on murder. Probably does not matter. He said it was because he felt there was not enough evidence and I agree with him looking at it all and with this indictment.

It makes sense that if you take something to the gj for murder and they don't come back with a murder indictment that you would not go forward from there. If he signed it that would have been that. Move on to the case. But he didn't and I agree with that.

That's what a JURY is for! It is up to a JURY to decide if the evidence = guilt, NOT one individual who has the OPINION that they are innocent.

Why even have a jury system at all if we're going to let one person decide if someone/s is guilty or innocent?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That's what a JURY is for! It is up to a JURY to decide if the evidence = guilt, NOT one individual who has the OPINION that they are innocent.

Why even have a jury system at all if we're going to let one person decide if someone/s is guilty or innocent?

Yes. It is. But there was not enough to charge them with murder. That is what the GJ was convened for. They could not even find a manslaughter charge. That charge they did says nothing about who did what, or when or that the R's were even involved.

Now with the DNA I would bet that they would never even get an indictment at all.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Not on murder. Probably does not matter. He said it was because he felt there was not enough evidence and I agree with him looking at it all and with this indictment.

It makes sense that if you take something to the gj for murder and they don't come back with a murder indictment that you would not go forward from there. If he signed it that would have been that. Move on to the case. But he didn't and I agree with that.

The GJ had reason to believe in their counts of murder. Don't you think more evidence would've come out during the trial?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The GJ had reason to believe in their counts of murder. Don't you think more evidence would've come out during the trial?

They did not vote for murder. They did not vote for manslaughter. You get one shot at murder trials. If the evidence is not there for the GJ to even say it was okay to go to trial, Then you don't.

 

[Mama2JML]

The GJ voted to indict. True. The DA did not file the indictment. Also true. Some grand jurors have spoken up trying to explain the reasoning behind their choice to indict, as did the DA's "team". RDIs aren't pleased with the results, IDIs aren't content, nor is the DA's office & the BPD. We could go round and round about this for an eternity, but THAT won't change the bottom line: JonBenet is dead & justice hasn't been served.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The GJ voted to indict. True. The DA did not file the indictment. Also true. Some grand jurors have spoken up trying to explain the reasoning behind their choice to indict, as did the DA's "team". RDIs aren't pleased with the results, IDIs aren't content, nor is the DA's office & the BPD. We could go round and round about this for an eternity, but THAT won't change the bottom line: JonBenet is dead & justice hasn't been served.

Agreed.

I think had the grand jury had what there is today, With DNA I think they never would have voted to indict.

Maybe that is what they should do. convene another grand jury..

 

[Little Jedi]

" Alex Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect – as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I."

By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro /
Published FoxNews.com

*Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is a journalist who has investigated the murder of JonBenet Ramsey for nearly 16 years.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

" Alex Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect – as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I."

By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro /
Published FoxNews.com

*Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is a journalist who has investigated the murder of JonBenet Ramsey for nearly 16 years.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

I know about Jeff Shapiro and that is not a source I would trust. And this would again be hearsay. Nothing more.

 

[Tawny]

What sources do IDI theorists trust? I'm not being snarky, I am curious to know if I can read from those sources and see a different perspective

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What sources do IDI theorists trust? I'm not being snarky, I am curious to know if I can read from those sources and see a different perspective

We have news reports, depositions, DNA in two places that match...

Again this is the place for us who do not believe RDI to talk about the case. There are a lot of RDI threads if you don't believe that someone other than they did it.

No one is trying to persuade anyone.