Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

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Mama2JML said:
If IDI, John Ramsey wasn't involved. (This is the IDI thread.)

If RDI, I can elaborate in an appropriate thread. Your call.
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Yes. Please elaborate in an appropriate thread. Thank you.

Also if you could explain why you were doubtful, that too would be appreciated. Merci.
 
Mama2JML said:
Excerpt from Carnes order, 04.31.2003:
"Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.)"​
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Considering enforcement didn't even get their hands on the clothing the Ramsey's were wearing the night of the party or the next morning or original package of Bloomingdale panties...for months & months & months and how long before Patsy handed over panty package?

I'm really not surprised some fibers were no sourced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If to consider possibility that flashlight was the source of the first fatal blow, then it`s excludes RDI, simply because why would Patsy had flashlight in her hand when sudden anger towards her daughter ( as RDI believe) took over her .

Why she had it in her hand in the first place, if she was in her own house, there was no power shortage, and there were night lights left next to the JonBenet`s bedroom?

Who of us navigates through their own houses at night time with the flash light in the hand? We all have electro switches every couple feet.

Nobody use flashlight for no reason. When there is no electro power, that`s when we all start looking for the flashlight.

If somebody believes that Patsy made the blow with the flashlight, somebody needs to explain WHY it had been in her hand MOMENTS BEFORE she killed her daughter with it.

And I`m talking flashlight in the hand moments before accidental killing, not after. It`s a BIG difference.

Flashlight- fatal blow`s weapon is not consistent with RDI, and pretty much consistent with IDI.
 
I use the flashlight on my phone at night so as not to wake the rest of the house. JMO.
 
Tawny said:
I use the flashlight on my phone at night so as not to wake the rest of the house. JMO.
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No comparison. You have other purposes to keep you phone next to you, alarm, phone calls, I`m pretty sure.

Heavy duty old monster flashlight on Patsy`s night stand? She even did not know what flashlight.

They had night lights left where needed.

It does not fit in Patsy`s hand, does it? I mean, does not fit logically. Nicely fits in the intruder`s hand, though.
 
I was commenting in reference to the assumption that she would have zero reason to use a flashlight in her own home. I also happen to have a maglite next to my bed. I'm not insinuating PR had one by her bed, I'm simply saying that using a flashlight in your own home isn't such an outrageous idea.
 
I'm pretty sure tovarisch isn't speaking literally about whether or not the flashlight physically fits in anyone's hand, but rather about the logic of who would have been using one.
 
tovarisch said:
If to consider possibility that flashlight was the source of the first fatal blow, then it`s excludes RDI, simply because why would Patsy had flashlight in her hand when sudden anger towards her daughter ( as RDI believe) took over her .

Why she had it in her hand in the first place, if she was in her own house, there was no power shortage, and there were night lights left next to the JonBenet`s bedroom?

Who of us navigates through their own houses at night time with the flash light in the hand? We all have electro switches every couple feet.

Nobody use flashlight for no reason. When there is no electro power, that`s when we all start looking for the flashlight.

If somebody believes that Patsy made the blow with the flashlight, somebody needs to explain WHY it had been in her hand MOMENTS BEFORE she killed her daughter with it.

And I`m talking flashlight in the hand moments before accidental killing, not after. It`s a BIG difference.

Flashlight- fatal blow`s weapon is not consistent with RDI, and pretty much consistent with IDI.
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If I were in my own home and knew where every light switch was, I'd STILL turn out the lights and walk around with a flashlight if I wanted to be sure no one could see me through the windows. As it is, neighbors already reported seeing the "strange moving lights) to police, and another neighbor reported that a light in a the den was OUT when it had previously been ON every single night. Neighbors notice a LOT. If I recall, that kitchen window had a valance but no shade. The neighbor who saw the moving lights would have seen who it was if the light had been on in the kitchen.
 
Heyya DeeDee249

With DeDee's mention of the full moon that night, I wonder if it would not be easy to negotiate the lay out of the home, sans flashlight, but difficult to see items that were in drawers.

Full moon:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?241079-Why-Christmas&p=10670026#post10670026

lights:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682525/What Neighbors Reported

Lights in Kitchen


  • Schiller Account. "At about midnight, Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramseys' house and saw a light on in the kitchen area." (Schiller 1999:58).
  • Thomas Account. Thomas states in his book that "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home... (Thomas 2000a:49). Although Thomas does not provide the name, Gibbons lived next door to the Ramseys to the immediate north (map); he would have had a direct view of the butler pantry (diagram).
  • Bluecrab Account. According to Internet poster Bluecrab "Gibbons, from his own kitchen window, observed the "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen who, according to Gibbons, seemed to be creeping around in the semi-darkness so as not to awaken others in the house. Gibbons also saw a light on in the butler's kitchen at about 12 midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light burning." No source is provided for this information.
  • Toltec Account. Internet poster Toltec also states: The next door neighbor who witnessed the "strange" light in the kitchen around midnight said that it "looked like someone was moving around as not to wake anyone." No source is provided for this information.
  • Schiller adds: "Sometime later, Adam Fermeire, another neighbor, who was up watching TV, said he didn't notice anything strange through the window that faced the Ramseys' house"(Schiller 1999:58).
  • Internet poster Jolynna noted "in one of Patsy's interviews, she said that the family was not good about leaving lights off."

Missing Safety Light


  • Thomas Account. "A resident directly to the south reported that the light was off in the southeast corner sunroom of the Ramsey home and thought that was odd because it was the only time she was aware in the past few years that it did not burn all night." (Thomas 2000a:49).
  • "Diane Brumfitt, another neighbor, told Detective Barry Hartkopp on December 31 that on Christmas night she did not see a light on at the southeast corner of the Ramseys' house, though there had been a safety light in that spot for years. She remembered thinking that it was unusual." Although Thomas does not name Brumfitt, the Brumfitt house is next door to the Ramseys to the immediate south (map).
 
I never know how much significance this flashlight actually has, but my parents were really big on them in the pre-cell phone days. We all had giant flashlights next to our beds. So I can see it being easily accessible if you need a weapon, but I still don't understand why JB would be hit with a giant flashlight by anyone.
 
DeeDee249 said:
If I were in my own home and knew where every light switch was, I'd STILL turn out the lights and walk around with a flashlight if I wanted to be sure no one could see me through the windows. As it is, neighbors already reported seeing the "strange moving lights) to police, and another neighbor reported that a light in a the den was OUT when it had previously been ON every single night. Neighbors notice a LOT. If I recall, that kitchen window had a valance but no shade. The neighbor who saw the moving lights would have seen who it was if the light had been on in the kitchen.
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You said If I wanted to be sure nobody could see me. I totally agree with you. If Patsy wanted to be sure nobody`s saw her, it would have been premeditated murder.

Most RDI theorists claim it was SUDDEN ACCIDENTAL killing.

My question is very simple- please put (give reasonable scenario) heavy duty flashlight in Patsy`s hand when she entered JonBenet`s bedroom NOT THINKING YET about killing her daughter.

Why flashlight would have been in her hand?

There was night light left next to JoneBenet`s bedroom. It was modern freshly renovated and updated house with separate bedrooms for everybody; I can image wall lights, night lights. . . Why carry monster flashlight in the hand up and down the stairs?

People say here they like using heavy duty flashlights when moving in their houses at the night time.
I thank you God, I `m not their roommate. If I see at night time this light in my dark hall way I would scream bloody murder in every language, I promise.

The more closely I look closely on every aspect of the RDI, the more it become apparent to me, and it`s my opinion only, nothing fits in it. Even this primitive object like flashlight.
 
In some countries Barbie Doll`s considered evil and it`s banned, for her provocative adult body shape and materialistic ”life style”. I was surprise while doing research on “evil Barbie” to stumble on the same approach in some states and public groups in US (end of the post). It`s a good example that idealistic believes of people are very different. Very.

My point is that Barbie Night gown and Barbie doll were not accidentally thrown next to JB body, a might have been left intentionally for symbolic reason.

JB herself had been living Barbie. Firstly, she had been officially sexualized in non-stop child beauty contests , where little children, like her, and even babies, look far from innocent with their make ups and adult dresses and swimming suites that expose their tiny bodies as maximum as possible for the adults to judge , how distasteful, in deed. Some people who have different religious believe and ideals could really see JB as an evil Barbie. Secondly, she was very materialized through her rich family life style, private plane and pilot, child`s chair for thousand dollars, as well, again, peasant`s expensive dresses, money rewards etc.

She could have been chosen as a target just for simply being a living Barbie Doll, by the perp(s) point of view , who did not respected the country and wanted to punish people`s controversial life style. Therefore, Barbie Gown and Barbie Doll next to her body as a symbol.

I also think that this Barbie Doll gown and Barbie doll symbolizing idea COULD belong to the female perp, member of the group. When I think about Barbie gown and doll behind the cellar door, and female “Melinda`s” palm print on the front of the same door, plus many others forensic evidence, that I will gather sometimes in the other post, the female figure become coming out as of the thin air more and more distinctly out of the group of perp(s). But again, it`s just my opinion.

Melinda`s palm print- hadn ever been officially proven it Melinda`s. If I`m wrong, and somebody`s knows and believes that Atlanta`s Judge J. Carnes in 2003, after 6 years of ongoing investigation, was denied access to that palm print information, please refer me to the official report of “Melinda`s positive match.

And here is the evil Barbie by democrats of W. Virginia:

2009 01:03 AM ID: 77398 Permalink


West Virginia May Outlaw Barbie Dolls
On Tuesday, Lincoln County Democratic Delegate Jeff Eldridge proposed a bill that would outlaw Barbie doll sales in West Virginia. He cites their unhealthy influence on girls, which he says focuses on physical beauty too much.
Response from the public was not so positive. Weirton resident Kristen Delaney: "I don't think that's a good idea. It's the parents' choice to decide what their kids play with." A Follansbee resident said "I've never seen it bother any girls."
A spokeswoman from Mattel had no immediate response on the matter. Next Monday marks Barbie's 50th birthday, which will be marked with big plans by the toymaker. Critics blame the doll for an unnatural body image and the promotion of materialism.
 
So, as a long time RDI, I have decided to review this case as much as possible from a new viewpoint.

Two thing happened recently. I caught PMPT on Lifetime a couple of weeks ago about the same time I finished a book on the Boston Strangler. Unrelated, you might think, but here is my wierd thought process that brought me to this decision.

I have always believed that Albert DeSalvo was not the strangler. That, in fact, he had never murdered anyone.
However, based on recent DNA evidence discovered on the body of the Stranglers last victim, I had to rethink that conviction. I read a book on the subject which was totally based on the theory that he was not the Strangler. In other words supporting my long time theory.

I came away from the book convinced that I was wrong all those years. I now am 100% convinced that he was the Strangler. I was wrong. It's not the first time. I also was once compeltely convinced, like most Americans, that Lee Harvey Oswald was part of a conspiracy and read everything on the subject for, literally, decades. Yet several years ago, I became 100% convinced that LHO acted alone, just as the Warren Commission stated, all those years ago.

So, since I am not feeling 100% on my judgement, I decided to review this case again and try to look at it completely objectively for the possibility that I could have been wrong all these years.

I am re-reading PMPT. There are a couple of things already that I realize I had in my head as being quite different from what they actually were.

One is the extent of grief shown my John Ramsey. There are several reports in the book about his devastation. The other item that really stands out to me is that the Ramsey's were, in fact, very concerned about Burke's security when they sent him back to school. I did not recall that they hired security and that Patsy stated, more than once, that she had already lost one child and was not going to lose another. Which is a very normal reaction under the circumstances, and would tend to ruin the theory that they were never worried as they should have been.

I have avoided this thread out of respect for IDI's and I am still not here to argue. I am curious as to IDI's (especially Anti-K) opinions of PMPT in terms of fairness? I purposely skipped over the Steve Thomas book because I am well aware of the theory there. So far PMPT seems to be a more neutral reporting of the facts.

However, on the other side, there is one other thing I had forgotten about that, IMO, strongly points to my long time theory that PDI. That is the phone call from John to the hardware store asking about what items Patsy charged on those two dates in December. I don't recall the dates exactly, and don't have the book with me, but it was early December.

Any IDI theories on why a man that clearly did not track his wife's spending was suddenly interested in small charges at a hardware store?
 
but that was someone impersonating JR, IIRC? one of the tabloids hired investigators and they gained access to all kinds of billing/etc and impersonating was their MO, according to a former employee/informant? I'm pretty sure that's what I remember reading

don't have my kindle nearby so I can't look it up
 
Ah, maybe it was an imposter. I just read that section this morning, but not the entire chapter. It did say that the caller gave a different account number so maybe they were just making it all up, including the account number.

That must be the case, because otherwise that would be a major "smoking gun", IMO and since I did not even remember it, that would explain why it isn't used in the litany of circumstantial evidence.

Thanks for the response.
 
She could have been chosen as a target just for simply being a living Barbie Doll, by the perp(s) point of view , who did not respected the country and wanted to punish people`s controversial life style. Therefore, Barbie Gown and Barbie Doll next to her body as a symbol.
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Why not right this in the three page ransom note. Why resort to such cryptic symbolism that nobody will get. Or better yet, write it in another ransom note and leave it on the lawn or wherever.

JonBenet would have been chosen as a target for one or maybe all of these three reasons:

1.She was John & Patsy's daughter and the killer knew the Ramsey's would be most willing to fit into a ransom demand scenario.
2. The killer had a unique tactical advantage that made the Ramsey's the best available target over other families in the area.
3. She was a target of pedophilic advances that became unavailable to him. Hence required an immediate break in to reach her.
 
DeeDee249 said:
If I were in my own home and knew where every light switch was, I'd STILL turn out the lights and walk around with a flashlight if I wanted to be sure no one could see me through the windows. As it is, neighbors already reported seeing the "strange moving lights) to police, and another neighbor reported that a light in a the den was OUT when it had previously been ON every single night. Neighbors notice a LOT. If I recall, that kitchen window had a valance but no shade. The neighbor who saw the moving lights would have seen who it was if the light had been on in the kitchen.
Click to expand...

At the risk of asking a dumb question as I'm relatively new to reading the threads here on this case, is it even possible for the neighbor to see lights on in the kitchen? I'm just looking at pictures of a layout of the Ramsey's home and the neighbor, if I'm correct, lives to the north. From his house, the Ramsey's kitchen appears to be on the other side of the house with multiple walls in between, not to mention any trees in between. Unless the layout I'm looking at is wrong, I'm wrong about which direction this neighbor lives in or there is another area of the house referred to as the "butler kitchen" that is different than the "kitchen".
 
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