Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[KKazoo87]

You need help. I am not impressed by you.

STOP. It is the INTRUDER thread.. NOT the RDI thread. Stop trying to prove your theories here.

bbm. Lol, how rude! I doubt anyone is impressed with you either. If you aren't open for debates maybe none of these threads are the ones for you. I don't really appreciate anyone telling me where to post, I will post where ever I like. There's an ignore button, use it if you don't want to hear others opinions, or scroll and roll.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

bbm. Lol, how rude! I doubt anyone is impressed with you either. If you aren't open for debates maybe none of these threads are the ones for you. I don't really appreciate anyone telling me where to post, I will post where ever I like. There's an ignore button, use it if you don't want to hear others opinions, or scroll and roll.

Im not claiming to know it all and be an authority..

This thread is only for Theories other then the R's did or had something to do with it.
There is NO RDI posts allowed her as per the rules of the thread.

 

[Mama2JML]

We are opening up this thread with new rules.

If you are a "Ramseys did it" poster then you are not allowed to post on this thread. The IDI's get one thread and the "RDI's" get many.

If you are posting on the "Intruder" thread please remember your posts must be reasonable and you cannot point fingers at innocent people.

Until the police either solve the case or there is a real confession the "Intruder" shall remain nameless.

If you are an IDI person and you want to post in a reasonable manner on the RDI thread then you may do so but I am telling you I will not tolerate any sort of disruption no matter what the post is disguised to look like.

Hopefully this will keep the peace.

Thank you,
Tricia

:bump:

 

[KKazoo87]

Im not claiming to know it all and be an authority..

This thread is only for Theories other then the R's did or had something to do with it.
There is NO RDI posts allowed her as per the rules of the thread.

I believe stating "Patsy didn't write the note" as fact is one of many things you ARE claiming to know. Which...you don't. I was asking a genuine question about Patsy's handwriting, which as usual got shot down in a completely defensive, dismissive and terribly rude way. I have no idea who wrote the note, so I'm interested in others opinions. I'm also going the way of SuperDave. If you ever find actual proof that Patsy didn't write the note I would love to see it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe stating "Patsy didn't write the note" as fact is one of many things you ARE claiming to know. Which...you don't. I was asking a genuine question about Patsy's handwriting, which as usual got shot down in a completely defensive, dismissive and terribly rude way. I have no idea who wrote the note, so I'm interested in others opinions. I'm also going the way of SuperDave. If you ever find actual proof that Patsy didn't write the note I would love to see it.

You can not prove a negative. The burden to prove whether she wrote it or not lies with the ones who believe she did. That is not me.

There is no proof she wrote it. None.

 

[Mama2JML]

I was asking a genuine question about Patsy's handwriting, which as usual got shot down in a completely defensive, dismissive and terribly rude way. I have no idea who wrote the note, so I'm interested in others opinions. I'm also going the way of SuperDave. If you ever find actual proof that Patsy didn't write the note I would love to see it.

I didn't dismiss your request, quoted below, post 1886:

If you can show me a sample that she didn't change her writing after the murder I will gladly edit my quote. The cursive 'a' doesn't appear in any of her post murder handwriting examples that I have seen. Thomas noted it was missing too, and that she was consciously making an effort to only use the manuscript 'a'. I don't wear blinders and I'm more than willing to accept the fact that she didn't eliminate this from her handwriting if you could post your links to back it up.

My response, post 1889, was neither defensive nor dismissive. I provided you with the source you requested.

Here it is again:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I didn't dismiss your request, quoted below, post 1886:

My response, post 1889, was neither defensive nor dismissive. I provided you with the source you requested.

Here it is again:

View attachment 69713

I am glad you posted this. It clearly shows the mixture of letters, It shows her own hand writing bleeding through the longer she writes.

 

[KKazoo87]

I didn't dismiss your request, quoted below, post 1886:

My response, post 1889, was neither defensive nor dismissive. I provided you with the source you requested.

Here it is again:

View attachment 69713

My post about dismissive and rude was not aimed at you mama, and I appreciate your response. Upon looking at Patsy's London letter again, I do see a few cursive 'a's in there so I will head back to my original post on the subject.
I do still think it's very odd that the ransom note writer just happened to know Patsy's writing so well that he or she used both style 'a's. And that Patsy felt the need to correct the style of her 'a' in the sample that her mother handed to Steve Thomas.
I'm still moving on from this thread but thought I should respond since your post was directed at me. I appreciate the response and enjoy being able to hold an actual and civil conversation. So thank you, and thank you for encouraging me to take a second look. Happy sleuthing!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

My post about dismissive and rude was not aimed at you mama, and I appreciate your response. Upon looking at Patsy's London letter again, I do see a few cursive 'a's in there so I will head back to my original post on the subject.
I do still think it's very odd that the ransom note writer just happened to know Patsy's writing so well that he or she used both style 'a's. And that Patsy felt the need to correct the style of her 'a' in the sample that her mother handed to Steve Thomas.
I'm still moving on from this thread but thought I should respond since your post was directed at me. I appreciate the response and enjoy being able to hold an actual and civil conversation. So thank you, and thank you for encouraging me to take a second look. Happy sleuthing!

That is just a story and not provable. That is one persons thoughts on her writing style and he is not an expert.
She wrote however she wrote. Before and after.

 

[Mama2JML]

Anthony Allen Shore:

"'He said in a calm voice, 'I'm just here to rob your house', 'said the woman, now 25. Shore then covered her eyes and mouth with duct tape and bound her hands behind her back, she said.

'I had to do something'. 'He used a knife to cut off my panties,' the woman said. 'As I was screaming, he got upset and told me I was being too loud.'

Then she felt hands around her throat. 'I kind of came out of my stupor and realized I had to do something. If I don't do something, I'm going to die,' she said.

She was able to kick him away, but he threatened her before leaving the house.

'He said he knows everything about me. He'd been watching me come home from school. He knew that I played soccer,' she said."​

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/shore-anthony.htm

Keith Aaron Schwinniman:

"Police learned last month that Schwinaman's DNA profile matches that connected with three unsolved cases, the first on July 3, 1993. A woman living in the 3000 block of 29th Street in Boulder said a man jumped on her as she slept, tied her hands behind her back and raped her at knifepoint. He also stole money from her purse, police said.

The second attack happened Sept. 24, 1993, in the 4900 block of Thunderbird Drive in Boulder. The victim told police she was awakened in the middle of the night by a man covering her mouth. He tied her hands behind her back with a black cord and raped her, according to police reports. He then rifled through her backpack and stole $19.

On July 18, 1996, a woman called police to say a man had broken into her Lafayette home in the 1300 block of Alexandria Street and raped her. She said the man crawled into her bed and placed his hand over her mouth, saying: 'Don't move. Don't scream. If you make a noise I'll kill you and your kid,' according to police reports. He then taped her hands together, performed oral sex on her, raped her and then ordered her to perform oral sex on him.

...

Schwinaman was convicted of sex assault on a child in Boulder in 1995. In May 2000, Schwinaman violated his probation and was sentenced to 21/2 years in prison. Paroled in March, he registered as a sex offender in Lafayette — listing 1306 Vesta Circle as his address — until he was again taken into custody for parole violation.

Schwinaman has an extensive criminal record in Colorado dating back to 1984, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation."​

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=131&forum=jbr

Maybe he's the "Amy" attacker/intruder, someone "like" him; a twisted BTK-type; or some freak like Brian David Mitchell...

:bump: for Scarlett, per our recent discussion.

 

[Muy Curioso]

I noticed the letters "a" were pulled from the RN, but I've never seen a document just like this before. So, you've been working on this yourself? Impressive! Are you using specialty software? Is this your field of study? Tell me more, please. I'm intrigued.

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I have been working with PDF documents, trying to clear the images. The work with the first three letters is rougher, but from the “d” is much better. The idea is that I can compare, in a few seconds, any letter from anyone with that letter all along the ransom note.

I am no expert, and in fact, I am quite skeptical about handwriting experts. I have had many doubts to post this work, which I am afraid is going to be used to "discover" links to the texts of Patsy. The more we look at the clouds, the more figures we can see. The problem is that there are not enough texts to compare. Are significant 10 similarities from 1300? And 25? And 100? If we look 100 random texts, how many of them have more resemblance to the ransom note that the letter of Patsy?

I am doubting if finish all the letters before posting, or going to be posting one by one. I am open to suggestions. If you want see some ot them now, any of you should start a post, since I can not. It seems that until I have 50 post, I can not start a new one.

I am also working on a new hypothesis about the pineapple.

 

[Muy Curioso]

Great idea. Tedious job, though. I do not think it`s waist of time, it could be very useful.
What I want to do, if you are not against it, to compare your results to the foreign languages `s handwriting styles. Some letters in ransom have strange waves and long tails, writer might had adapted style from his native language.
Can you make you pictures larger, please?

The larger letters, lower quality. Do not you think they are big? Have you downloaded the document?

 

[icedtea4me]

The National Enquirer published the sample depicted in the image below., courtesy of Cherokee @ FFJ:

View attachment 69677


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The National Enquirer also released a paperback some years back which contained a dictated story which contained all the words in the note in random order. The book showed Patsy's left-hand writing of this story.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransompage2.gif

Check out the word 'dog'. Note how the writer made no effort to keep the top of the downstroke of the d separate from the bottom horizontal line of the I. In Patsy's left-handed writing sample, she drew a horizontal line on top of the downstroke of the d in the word 'dog'.

 

[tovarisch]

The larger letters, lower quality. Do not you think they are big? Have you downloaded the document?

Agreeing. The quality is bad consider that we are going to make layman expertise. I have downloaded and it was the same small size, and I tried to enlarge and it was mosaic looking. It`s my old laptop, probably.

I cannot wait to see "d", "u", "n"- the most weird looking to my eye.
"d" in ransom looks to me as written starting from lower round part and finished with strait upper line, totally opposite to customary -from straight line down and adding the round part. I never saw "d" like this.


I`m amused on RDI presenting examples side by side where ALL letters do not match Patsy`s, even for the naked eye, and they think we are blind.
This is I cannot comprehend about them.

 

[887sMtreme]

I would have thought that was a baseline stroke for the capital "I" directly above, not a cross at the top go the "d" in dog.

Edited to add: I see this was already mentioned in icedtea4me's post. I have tried several times to delete this post but it didn't "take."Sorry!

 

[Muy Curioso]

Agreeing. The quality is bad consider that we are going to make layman expertise. I have downloaded and it was the same small size, and I tried to enlarge and it was mosaic looking. It`s my old laptop, probably.

I cannot wait to see "d", "u", "n"- the most weird looking to my eye.
"d" in ransom looks to me as written starting from lower round part and finished with strait upper line, totally opposite to customary -from straight line down and adding the round part. I never saw "d" like this.


I`m amused on RDI presenting examples side by side where ALL letters do not match Patsy`s, even for the naked eye, and they think we are blind.
This is I cannot comprehend about them.

Can you start a thread where I can post the letters? You can title it "Letters of the ramson note" or something similar. As for the size, tell me how much you need, and I will see what I can do.

 

[Mama2JML]

Can you start a thread where I can post the letters? You can title it "Letters of the ramson note" or something similar. As for the size, tell me how much you need, and I will see what I can do.

We can submit a request for the thread, and I would be more than happy to do so. BUT, we can't post new threads in this forum without moderator approval first.

-OR-

You/I/Someone can bump an old thread if you find one to be most fitting.

Let me know if you'd like help!



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[pukasonqo2]

quick question, when we are talking about an intruder are we speaking of a total stranger or can we also consider relatives, family friends or acquaitances, etc who did not live at the same address as the Rs? technically, unless invited in they could be also considered as intruders

 

[Mama2JML]

quick question, when we are talking about an intruder are we speaking of a total stranger or can we also consider relatives, family friends or acquaitances, etc who did not live at the same address as the Rs? technically, unless invited in they could be also considered as intruders

IMO, (MOO only), the CODIS DNA profile belongs to the perp. So, there's substantial wiggle room, IMO, although RDIs might judge IDIs as ABARs.


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[tovarisch]

quick question, when we are talking about an intruder are we speaking of a total stranger or can we also consider relatives, family friends or acquaitances, etc who did not live at the same address as the Rs? technically, unless invited in they could be also considered as intruders[/QUOTE


Not a total stranger. Personalized crime. Against John.
Did not live at the same address-- and that`s was his major problem. He wanted all what they had.
"Underestimated" (his word) by society and /or Ramsey.
Envy for John`s business, but did not know how to spell the word business. Never had one.
Angry, even country was not good enough.
Put the price for the young life , a very low price. Including cents- .00; it`s made it "a price".
Wanted to be bigger than big fat cat Ramsey.
Enjoyed. He prolonged killing, staying, writing, he enjoyed every minute of that Christmas night.
His long time fantasy realized.
Was proud of himself in the end. Claimed the crime.
All this he put in ransom..