Is Casey the real Zenaida?

[BondJamesBond]

If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.

*snipped*

...also matching the range of time, IIRC, that Tony was typically in class, hence, Casey would be less likely to be contradicted by other eyewitnesses. Note that when Casey wrote her statement she'd had weeks of establishing a new routine around Tony's schedule. Hmmm...:waitasec:...Casey thinks...constructing this around a Monday means I'm free after 9AM...George pinned it down to ~1PM.

FWIW, I think we gave some treatment to this scribbling, etc. on the Case Analysis Thread re: confusion over 6/9 vs. 6/16. Fascinating when you consider how Casey constructed her statement...like a 7th-grader tries to fill-up the double-spaced pages on a homework assignment set to a minimum number of pages . All the while LE swarmed Hopespring and Caylee's remains lie just a few hundred yards away.

The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

 

[magic-cat]

*snipped*

...also matching the range of time, IIRC, that Tony was typically in class, hence, Casey would be less likely to be contradicted by other eyewitnesses. Note that when Casey wrote her statement she'd had weeks of establishing a new routine around Tony's schedule. Hmmm...:waitasec:...Casey thinks...constructing this around a Monday means I'm free after 9AM...George pinned it down to ~1PM.

FWIW, I think we gave some treatment to this scribbling, etc. on the Case Analysis Thread re: confusion over 6/9 vs. 6/16. Fascinating when you consider how Casey constructed her statement...like a 7th-grader tries to fill-up the double-spaced pages on a homework assignment set to a minimum number of pages . All the while LE swarmed Hopespring and Caylee's remains lie just a few hundred yards away.

The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

Hey Bond! I have surely missed you!:blowkiss:
Brilliant thoughts about how she constructed her statement to include things that she and her parents had discussed that evening. Also, I agree that all the details such as the triangulation address, the actual disposal address, were NOT part of Caseys plan. I think the universe added these little idiodyncrasies just to tighten the noose so to speak. Welcome back Bond! REALLY!!!:woohoo:

 

[magic-cat]

I meant to throw this out there a while ago, and then I had a system crash. So I am a little late to the party. :bang:

Fly back to the evening of July 15, 2008 when the police arrive at the Anthony’s and begin questioning the family. Written statements from George, Cindy, and Lee were all collected around 10:15 PM that evening.:cop:

These statements were collected while emotions were running high, and confusion ruled the day. :waitasec: Cindy stated she had not seen Caylee since June 8. George, probably convinced Cindy’s timing was right, said he last saw her the next day – June 9. Lee made mention of KC’s 31-day assertion.

KC, however, wrote her statement later, at 1:05 AM on the 16th. During the previous three hours no doubt George’s recollection of the last time he saw Caylee was replayed multiple times. KC, of course, was listening. This would include not only what he thought he saw Caylee wearing, but also when he saw them leave. inocchio:

When she finally wrote her statement at 1:00 AM she included all of the incorrect facts her parents were desperately trying to remember. The date. The clothing.

What I found interesting is what she said about the time she dropped off Caylee. In his August 4 interview George is pretty firm in his belief he saw them leave the home about 10 to 1 PM. :talker: No doubt this was discussed on the evening of July 15, with KC listening.

If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.

IMO, this lends strong credence to the notion that she knew exactly where she had discarded Caylee, she had researched it, and was using the information to keep her fantasy world “facts” straight. :thumb:

Brilliant as usual! So sorry to hear about your crash!

 

[lin]

The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.

Excellent post, as always. Perhaps it was KC's very guilty subconscious putting out information that her conscious mind didn't even notice, much less have the capacity to grasp or use. Think 'body language' and the unintentional clues that are often given and it's not such a leap to consider a lot of what a person says in trying to deflect will actually lead straight to the truth.

 

[TakeNote]

Wasn't sure where to share these 2 videos! I guess this thread is as good as any-since it discusses many issues about KC and the murder! It's a road trip! You'll feel like you're like you're right there!!!


YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 1

YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 2

Def gives ya alot of things to ponder!!:waitasec:

wow....thank you for posting these....it was an eye opener wasnt it? its amazing how close to the road Caylee was.....and the birth date with the address....wow....that is a bit creepy!

 

[countzero]

What we see and read as clues given by KC and the A clan are no doubt years of an established means and method of communication between these people.

Remember folks, KC lived and breathed her former life by either text, cell phone, or computer social groups. She apparently never had the opportunity to actually develop any other communication skills; such as formal writing :crazy: texting doesn't count.

Seriously, how did this family communicate with each other prior to cell phone/text and computer technology?

 

[lisalei321]

Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

I can answer the plate question :woohoo: for me, that's rare!

Florida only requires a rear plate, you don't even get the option for a front one.

That almost got me a ticket one time in Indiana, cause the Officer didn't believe me

 

[Intermezzo]

Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

BBM

Florida issues 1 license plate...many people put plastic tags on the front stating a city or business etc...or some even keep the tag from their previous state or country on the front- but I don't think the Pontiac had any kind of plate on the front.

 

[MissJames]

The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.

This is what I believe,also,Cecybeans. Good topic for our Astrosleuths.

 

[sarah7855]

The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

*snipped respecfully*

I am not entirely sure what I think about these "coincidences". Are they in fact truly just coincidences or is it more? I keep going back and forth. Probably because I can't wrap my head around WHY someone would do such a thing, let alone a mother to her child. :furious:

At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

* address where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 is Caylee's birthday. "I feel in my gut that she'll be found by her birthday"

*She dropped her off between (470)9 and (470)1 Hopespring Drive

*She dropped Caylee off with Zenaida Gonzalez. The address on one side of the dump site is listed as belonging to a Zenaida, the adress on the other side is listed as belonging to residents with the last name Gonzalez.

I'm sure there are more to add to this list, but these are the most shocking.

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has!

 

[Intermezzo]

In the videos posted from Youtube above by Intermezzo, the narrator Marinadedave notes that someone found an address to where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 - Caylee's birthday. All you have to do is type the address in Google Maps and it pops right up right by the remains site. Guess that was what was meant by she will be found by her birthday - she was literally found by her birthday number wise.

Gives me chills.

Just wanted to clarify that it was essies that posted the videos...:blowkiss:

 

[Intermezzo]

*snipped respecfully*

I am not entirely sure what I think about these "coincidences". Are they in fact truly just coincidences or is it more? I keep going back and forth. Probably because I can't wrap my head around WHY someone would do such a thing, let alone a mother to her child. :furious:

At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

* address where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 is Caylee's birthday. "I feel in my gut that she'll be found by her birthday"
*She dropped her off between (470)9 and (470)1 Hopespring Drive

*She dropped Caylee off with Zenaida Gonzalez. The address on one side of the dump site is listed as belonging to a Zenaida, the adress on the other side is listed as belonging to residents with the last name Gonzalez.

I'm sure there are more to add to this list, but these are the most shocking.

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has!

Good post.
BBM
IMO and :twocents: Casey would not have done the research required to obtain the address to that parcel of land...since there wasn't a home or business on that parcel of land there would be no need to have been a numbered address marker on the site, it has been wooded swamp land for many many years.
IMO Caylee was dumped quickly and in a familiar spot then Casey went off to live La Bella Vita with TL and every time she went to her parents home she would be able to see if activity was happening around the remains site...like LE.

 

[sarah7855]

Good post.
BBM
IMO and :twocents: Casey would not have done the research required to obtain the address to that parcel of land...since there wasn't a home or business on that parcel of land there would be no need to have been a numbered address marker on the site, it has been wooded swamp land for many many years.
IMO Caylee was dumped quickly and in a familiar spot then Casey went off to live La Bella Vita with TL and every time she went to her parents home she would be able to see if activity was happening around the remains site...like LE.

True, great point!

Also, FWIW, there was a thread with the whole Zenaida/Gonzalez property owners awhile back. Maybe there's some info in that thread that might be useful if we look at it with fresh eyes. I'm going to try and look for it in a sec.

 

[cecybeans]

What we see and read as clues given by KC and the A clan are no doubt years of an established means and method of communication between these people.

Remember folks, KC lived and breathed her former life by either text, cell phone, or computer social groups. She apparently never had the opportunity to actually develop any other communication skills; such as formal writing :crazy: texting doesn't count.

Seriously, how did this family communicate with each other prior to cell phone/text and computer technology?

Sounds like yelling at each other was a big part of it. All of their "calmer" verbalization sounds stilted and formal and is full of malaprops and awkward phrasing that many have commented on since we first started hearing their words.

 

[Oakley]

I know this is off topic but since the thread went in this direction I have to ask a question that's burning inside me.

For what reason would she be giving all these so-called clues? Wouldn't it have been better for her if the body had never been found? (assuming she did it, of course) Why lead anybody, including her family, to the body? Remorse? Helping with a cover-up? Like, why would she scratch out "about 1" and change it to "between 9A.M and 1P.M. to point to the location of the body when she hadn't even been charged with a crime yet? I'm trying to understand what the reasoning would be, then maybe I can look at this in a different light.

For now, I don't believe that she came up with all these Columbo-type clues for people to decipher but I love the tenacity here!

Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.

 

[Intermezzo]

Sounds like yelling at each other was a big part of it. All of their "calmer" verbalization sounds stilted and formal and is full of malaprops and awkward phrasing that many have commented on since we first started hearing their words.

BBM
That's the first thing that popped into my mind as well Cecy.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.

ITA. I think KC threw out these "clues" b/c if she ever got caught, she wants the world to know how brilliant she is. Doesn't matter if someone could have figured out her "clues" (but really who could, another psycho maybe?)--she was banking on no one would, but if by happenstance (maybe KC is smart enough to know happenstance happens alot!) Caylee was found, then everyone will see how brilliant she is (in her backwards way of course). Her ego wouldn't let her NOT give clues. That's my 2 cents anyway. Off to listen to jail visitations again. Thanks to essies for posting that youtube video. JMO

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Wondered if you all had noticed the two comments left on zenaida's MySpace Video Channel Comments Page. Marinade Dave, IIRC, is the person who made the Driving Miss Casey video. Nothing suspicious inferred; just collecting and sharing interesting facts.

ETA: Tried to insert the link here but couldn't make it work. You'll have to go to : http://www.myspace.com/389838213 and then click on "view my videos."

 

[Balthazar]

This is just a fascinating thread.

I have never thought Casey is as dumb or lazy as some have claimed. She did get good grades in High School and even won an Employee of the Month award - she was doing well at her job for Kodak prior to deciding not to work anymore. She had to figure out how to use routing numbers, make fake checks and deposit slips and do all kinds of things that enabled her not to work without it being detected that she wasn't working. Casey had so far "beat the system" which I'm sure emboldened her to move on to even bigger crimes. I believe the clues were for Casey to demonstrate how superior she is and how stupid her parents and LE are.

Caylee is close to home
Caylee will be found by her birthday
Caylee was dropped off with Zenaida Gonzalez between 9 and 1.

And Cindy and George had been living in that house for 19 years and couldn't put the clues together to figure out what she was telling them. Did they seriously not know that 4701 was the Gonzalez house and that a Zaneida lived at 4709? Or is that how Dominic Casey came to search the vacant lot on Suburban? Did Cindy suddenly figure it out?

 

[countzero]

*snipped respecfully*


At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

snipped for space respectfully

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has!

bbm:

Ya know, I said many months ago after the computer forensics was released that we were never given the complete computer evidence. Only portions that LE wanted to release. I still want to see the complete computer forensic. Everything that KC wrote and/or posted. I am willing to bet that last dollar in my bank account, yep it's still there so far, that KC wrote her fantasies and they may have been part of the Grand Jury's indictment.

Your right on target about KC. She isn't stupid. She only does and did stupid things to cover her actions in murdering Caylee. And I still haven't ruled out in my theories that CA/GA/LA were NOT involved. More evidence needs to be released for me to jump off that fence.

Your last sentence: That was me.

Great post.