Is George lying?

[Doodlelover]

I think he did say a prayer for Casey---that she was not the cause of the smell of death in the car.

I just reread the transcripts from Yuri Melich's investigation. I read over the one where George contacted them and asked if he could come in without Cindy knowing. This is a very interesting read. He tells it like it is about Casey's lies, stealing how she takes everything as far as she can and so on.

He tells about going to the car pound lot and how he says a whispered prayer "please dont let me find Caylee in there" He specifically says Caylee alone and then goes on to say that he doesn't want to believe he could raise a child that would harm another person.

In this transcript it also states that Lee told Jesse Grund that Cindy choked Casey in the fight on the 15th and she left the home that night. I truly believe Lee lied about all of this and this is what the police were referring to when they said "Lee knows what he's done" and the partial immunity may have something to do with this.

I know George believed Casey did something right from his July 25th interview, he also said it would "kill" Cindy to find out Casey did something to Caylee so he went along with her denial and coverup.

GA and CA are not blameless in this. They are in a world of hurt now but they did obstruct justice, CA bragged about giving LE the wrong brush. She was annoyed that LE was focused on Casey instead of looking for someone else to blame. Denial at it's peak.

I guess what I'm trying to say is George did know by the end of July, Probably from the day he picked up the car as per his interview with LE but took the easy way out and let CA call the shots and her shots were denial denial denial. Cindy, she knew later but hers was and still is peppered with denial and shock still to this day. She'll get there fully by the end of this trial and it's not going to be pretty. Her breakdown on the stand was the first step into the light of reality.

 

[logicalgirl]

Took the day off so had to start at the beginning of these posts and read them all before I could comment again.

Okay, let me see now, would George be lying about what he remembers about the day he found out his precious grand daughter had been missing for 31 days and his daughter was arrested for lying to the LE and for child neglect? Hmmm..

And after three years of hell, seven weeks ago he is told it was he who discovered the body of Caylee and disposed of it somehow with Roy Kronk, AND he's been accused of abusing his daughter ICA since she was eight. And then he gets up on the stand, and we dislike the tone of voice he used or that he looked down and paused before he answered the questions from a lawyer he despises? Plus he is heavily medicated?

I broke out laughing when I heard Richard Hornsby say the thought George may be holding back or lying because he spoke in a monotone....I respect Mr. Hornsby a great deal but....:banghead:

Over and over we say that Cindy and George impeded the investigation. Yet in court it's clear that the gathering of evidence the LE did had little or nothing to do with what CA and GA did or said. We see a steady gathering of evidence other lawyers call "meticulous" - and no slowdown at all in the prosecution of ICA.

I've said it before and I'd like to one more time if posters will bear with me. It is my belief that Cindy and George's attitudes offended our moral sense of how parents "should" have behaved. We've been outraged by their treatment of innocent people involved in this crime. But I think it's time we separate our view of their behaviour and the prosecution's case against ICA. The two things have very little to do with each other.

 

[Doodlelover]

One problem here is that River told LE in her depo that GA had shared with her that Caylee's death was an accident that went out of control.

How would GA know that? Also for how long did GA know that? Upon knowing that, why didn't GA go directly to the police and tell them what he knew?

There's always another piece to the puzzle that complicates drawing a sound conclusion. Should we dismiss what River told the police?

I've also dismissed River, no good info there. If George DID tell her that it was an accident that snowballed, well, that's what I think he believed. He knew Caylee was dead and he knew Casey was responsible but he thought it must have been some type of accident. It would be hard to believe your child would kill your grandchild. There are many people on here that still think it must have been some type of accident. It's really hard to go there in my own mind but I believe Casey did it and did it on purpose and with great malice.

 

[reasonable]

I decided a long time ago, if an Anthony said it, it is doubtful.

However, I believe cell pings and computer records. Casey was home that night and morning.

Caley's doll and packed backpack were in the car - I believe she left with the baby and circled back like usual after George was gone.

I will say that George was the one who sneaked to the police early on behind Cindy's back and told about the smell and his fears.

Where the defense MIGHT get a break is that people who haven't watched for a long time might be swayed by why the police weren't called when they smelled the car. To me, that is easy: there was no body (though he feared there might be) and they did not want to believe it. The garbage was an easy, though uneasy, excuse.

the state will simply point out the tow guy didn't call either. He was a great witness. Calling would have been a BIG step. Just too big on a smell.

MOO, as always.

 

[aafromaa]

BBM

When did he testify that he didn't think the smell was decomp? As far as everything I had seen and heard, he was honest with police that he thought it was decomp.

bbm

yes, he was honest with LE in the beginning regarding his initial thought that the odor was decomp but did (more than once) also say it was the trash/pizza - I don't know if that was in a depo or just in the media - but - the fact that GA did not call police immediately upon smelling the odor from the car has been brought up several times in this thread and elsewhere and I just want to share my opinion on why he didn't call LE when he found the smell in the car

GA was faced with some horrific thoughts the moment he smelled that car - and yes, he knew without a doubt that it was the odor of decomposition - and even though he admits saying a little prayer under his breath "please, God, don't let this be my daughter or my granddaughter" before opening the trunk - and even though he was a cop and even though he knew what he was smelling - he was looking for or more correctly put he was "hoping" for some other explanation - and while his head was spinning around the possible scenarios that would have that odor in his daughter's car - the guy at the tow yard gives him the answer he had been hoping for by reaching for the trash bag and stating "here's where the smell is coming from" (or words to that effect) - did GA believe that trash was causing the smell? absolutely not - but he "hoped" the guy was right - and he tried to convince himself and even CA that the guy was right - it was the trash or the pizza or whatever - by the time the guy took the trash out of the car, I'm sure that it dawned on GA that CA had been speaking to KC every day so there was no way the smell of decomp could be KC and at this time, GA had no reason to think that KC would not be telling them IF something had happend to Caylee - so thinking that KC AND Caylee were alright - even though he didn't know what was going on - and combined with the "hope" that the guy at the tow yard just gave him that it was just the trash and not wanting to upset his wife any further about this, GA chose to accept that he was mistaken about what he really knew the odor was - so instead of calling LE, he drove that car home - and I'm sure every moment of that drive was filled with agonizing thoughts of what that smell really was and wondering what his daughter had gotten herself into - but still thinking that he knew both she and Caylee were okay - when CA told him to go on to work because she would handle things, he went to work

but did he ever believe that the odor was not decomp? I really don't think so - and keep recalling him shouting to protesters that the "body that was in the car was not my granddaughter" when he was still trying to hold out hope that Caylee was alive - perhaps he convinced himself that KC had loaned her car to someone who transported a body - who knows what possibilities raced through his mind - but the one thought he never let linger in his mind long enough to believe it was that it had been Caylee's body that had been in that car - he also admitted in a statement to LE that he told CA it was just the trash but he never really believed it

We can imagine but never really know the turmoil that GA was in when he went to get that car and smelled that smell - but I really believe that he let himself latch on to the hope that it really wasn't decomp and not call LE - it was a false hope that was really based on fear of the truth but even false hope can be very powerful

 

[Woe.be.gone]

SBM.

I don't really see how the kidnapping story explains decomp in Casey's trunk. If the nanny had Caylee and Casey had her car Caylee wouldn't have ended up decomposing in the Sunfire trunk. A carjacking could have explained both.

A kidnapping does not explain the decomp smell. I believe there was a plan in place to get rid of the Pontiac.
After the car was discovered in the towyard, Cindy texted KC something along the lines of 'call me, big problem'.
Later Cindy asked KC 'why didn't she pick up the car?' Iirc CA asked KC this in a jailhouse tape.
CA's tone was not asking KC why KC didn't pick up the car - some other 'she' person was to pick up the car. :waitasec:

The plan was to get rid of the Pontiac, not to have it end up at the local towyard.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:cow:

The question of this thread is "Is George lying?" so I will make some responses to a few specifics:


Is GA lying about the "accidental drowning" theory as to how Caylee died ? NO !

IF -- IF -- (pretending here) there was an "accidental drowning" and GA was at home when it happened, he would have done "everything" in his power save Caylee and immediately have called 9-1-1. Also, NO WAY would George have participated in any type of cover-up. I don't believe Caylee's death was "accidental" and I don't believe George believes that either.


Is GA lying about the "alleged sexual molestation" ? NO !

This is just another one of ICA's lies. And for the DT to use this as one of the "excuses" for ICA's behavior is despicable !


Is GA lying about June 16, 2008 -- being the last time he saw Caylee and fixed her breakfast ? Maybe ...

If GA is NOT telling the truth about this particular day, it is because the Anthony Family went into "cover-up mode" when CA finally got a hold of ICA on July 16 and the "cover-ups" began ... ICA's car smelling like a "dead body" was in there ... CA's 9-1-1 calls ... the "Nanny" fairy tale ... ya'll know the rest.

In my opinion, George never had a chance with CA running the show ...

It is just very upsetting to me that George went along with CA and ICA's cover-ups ...

I wonder if he "regrets" it now ? ?

 

[beach]

One problem here is that River told LE in her depo that GA had shared with her that Caylee's death was an accident that went out of control.

How would GA know that? Also for how long did GA know that? Upon knowing that, why didn't GA go directly to the police and tell them what he knew?

There's always another piece to the puzzle that complicates drawing a sound conclusion. Should we dismiss what River told the police?

I think George was telling that story because he was doing his damndest to convince himself that it was an accident. Caylee being deceased was horrible enough to endure, but to have to accept that Casey intentionally murdered her was more than he could bear. He wanted it to be an accident, in the worse way.

 

[RR0004]

Ok folks...hold on to your hats...I wouldn't be surprised if the DT alludes to the gun found in the wheel well. I'm not sure any police report made it into discovery, but neither did the WS tips..or did they and we never saw them?

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is a mistake if the state tries to keep any of the prior behavior of George and Cindy and Lee out of the case, as I think some, at least, will come out and then it will look like the state was hiding things from the jury. It is hard to believe that anyone living in the Orlando area, including the jurors, remained unaware of the behavior of the Anthony family over much of the previous 2+ years anyway. But it is never a good idea to "rehab" a witness to the point of having to CYA constantly to make sure you don't head down the wrong road. There is a lot of baggage with these three.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think that folks don't believe it because of the source(s)...and that includes Baez. If Casey's lying was the result of abuse and Caylee's death was accidental, why gamble with her life? Why not reveal all of that years ago? Does Casey seem like the kinda gal that would protect her family? She offered up anyone who was kind to her. She'd want to shout it to the world...I am a victim!! My father abused me and he hid Caylee!!
PS- and what really bothers me is how Baez could play along with all the "sightings" knowing that Caylee was dead. He would have allowed Caylee to rot in the woods? Look at how much worse that has made things for his client. The depravity of it all. Why on Earth would he have gone along with that?!

Carp, I never thought about it that way that the Lawyers would be continuing to lie too by supporting trying to find an alive Caylee. It seemed like a long time; it was five months. I'm thinking that KC may have dragged out telling them anything for a long time too. From my understanding they go by what the defendant tells them. Maybe all of the professionals they arranged to meet with KC helped get to the bottom of it and/or unknowingly helped KC formulate a new lie.

Regardless, KC must really, really hate GA to do this to him.

 

[CourtsInSession]

No, I do not believe George helped Casey dispose of little Caylee on the morning of the 16th. I do believe he did days later because of the state of decomposition. I do think he and Casey thought up Caylee being disposed of making it look like a kidnapping was the best thing to do at that point.

George was not an emotional guy for the 10 years he was in LE. You cannot be. He saw and dealt with a lot really bad and morbid things, IMO. He also came to know what decomposition smells like. If he is so emotional now, it is because the horrible things that happened were personal this time.

I think George discovered little Caylees' body in the trunk of the vehicle when Casey was at the house the afternoon she gave him the gas cans from the trunk. He was suspicious of why Casey did not want him to look in the trunk for the tire block, IMO. That was days after Casey had been avoiding them. I believe when George did discover Caylees' body in the trunk that Casey told him it was an accident and she did not know what to do and panicked. They could not call 911 and claim it had been an accident when Caylees' body was decomposing in the trunk. The kidnapping story was then hatched, IMO.

I do not believe that George ever molested Casey, and I do not believe he was in any way responsible for Caylees' death/murder. What I do honestly believe is that he did cover for Casey and did help dispose of Caylee. I do not for one minute think that Casey would have even gone to the trouble of placing Caylee in any protective wrapping whatsoever. I also believe the duct tape was placed on little Caylee to bolster the kidnapping story.

All of this is just IMO, but is what I do honestly think.

JMO, but I can't agree that GA would allow his precious granddaughter to be dumped out like garbage, regardless of the circumstances. It's hard enough to bury an infant or small child, let alone just dump them in the woods.

 

[Pink Panther]

Carp, I never thought about it that way that the Lawyers would be continuing to lie too by supporting trying to find an alive Caylee. It seemed like a long time; it was five months. I'm thinking that KC may have dragged out telling them anything for a long time too. From my understanding they go by what the defendant tells them. Maybe all of the professionals they arranged to meet with KC helped get to the bottom of it and/or unknowingly helped KC formulate a new lie.

Regardless, KC must really, really hate GA to do this to him.

Sociopaths neither love nor hate. Both are extreme emotions and they feel neither. Sociopaths are ALL about self-preservation (without guilt or guidelines as to what socially accepted behaviors entail). She is doing the only thing she knows how to do. She's looking out for herself. Nothing else exists (or has ever existed) in her world.

moo

 

[Aedrys]

Casey was George's daughter but I believe that no matter how hard he tried to keep Casey on the straight and narrow Cindy took Casey's side. I think it became a two against one. I do not believe George molested Casey. The story has changed too much. The original story was that Lee did. Now out of no where there is this blockbuster news. Nope.

The relationship I believe between George and Casey was more passive, just as it was with Cindy. As a result of that Casey played one against the other constantly in my opinion, causing marital strife.

George had left the house and was living elsewhere not long before Caylee went missing. Probably because of problems with Casey and he just gave up.

Casey was used to getting her own way and is still trying to get her own way. Her hands are betraying her. What happens when she gets upset in court? Her hands start pinching up and numb? IMO They are her weapons and she can't stand them. She covers them with sweaters and blouses and whatever she can. She twists and wrings them. What happened with those hands? She doesn't like those hands.

I believe both Cindy and George realized early on their words in that first 48 hours sank Casey. They tried to save their daughter by explaining away certain things. Were they told to say that by someone? Time will tell on that and I believe it will be Casey, George and Cindy against Baez when Casey is convicted. Look out Mr. Baez.

George is certainly not an angel but something is not adding up to me about George molesting his daughter. I don't see it.

ITA. I think what we were are seeing is a man in conflict. I think he knows he didn't do enough about Casey, and I think he feels ashamed about it. I think he knows how things were, but just can't admit to it in public. I think he has spent much of his time ashamed at how lackluster he was with Casey and because of that, I think he believes Caylee paid the price for it. He has to make himself feel better about what happened. He has to see himself as more capable than he knows he really was. It's how he's dealing with what happened to Caylee and the years of dealing with his sociopathic daughter Casey.

I think this is what the whole family is going through. There is a huge conflict between what they know happened and their guilt about what happened. I think each family member blames themselves more than Casey for what happened (maybe not so much Lee to a certain extent, but definitely Cindy and George). I think makes them embellish, it makes them want to see things in a better light or at least put things in a better light for the world to see while in private, they are miserable, angry, and grieving for what Casey has put them through and their loss because of Casey.

In my own my dealings with a sociopath, and it's now been six to seven years since it happened, I still go over it in my mind. I still wonder if things were my fault, did I miss signs, why didn't I see her for what she was, why didn't I fight more for myself and get too scared to stand up to her? I know it ultimately wasn't my fault. I know I was taken advantage of by a manipulative liar who used me and then when there was nothing left, moved on and left me broken. But I still wonder if it was my fault in some way, if I was too stupid or naive to see the person in front of me never was my friend, or that I wanted a friend so bad I let her say all the right things and take full advantage of me. I still question myself, and I think something similar has happened to Casey's family.

I used to be so hard on them on not raising her right (and still am to a certain extent, at least with the enabling), but it's taken me awhile to understand that this way they had with dealing with Casey was a learned pattern, something they had to do to survive with a sociopath in their midst. They learned what to do, and they just kept doing it no matter how bad things got. And then Caylee was murdered, and I think they've been second guessing and not wanting to believe the truth since. They've been in total conflict with themselves and what they know is truth and the perception of themselves and what happened as seen by the rest of the world.

I am not condoning what they did, but I am glad to see that they finally accepted the truth that Casey did do this. I still think they are a bit selfish and too concerned with public appearances (George and Cindy anyway), but at least they are not covering up or trying to defend Casey anymore. It's a huge step for both Cindy and George. And it affects how they come off to everyone else. You can't understand it unless you've dealt with a sociopath. There becomes this ingrained need to defend yourself to other people, and to defend yourself to yourself. You're doing it because the sociopath has left you broken and unsure of yourself and your decisions probably for the rest of your life. I will probably be ninety and still think of the sociopath that affected my life.

I admit that I have never done the hateful and mean things they did, but then again, the sociopath I dealt with for only one year max. I can't imagine how I would be if I had dealt with a sociopath for twenty two years or more. I might actually be a lot like them, scarily enough. I think so much time and pain has happened between them and Casey that they are emotionally crippled, and still somewhat in denial of what really happened in 2008. I think they are still trying to color it better in their minds because they can't deal with how bad it really was, but at least they are closer to acceptance than denial these days. It will probably take therapy and time for them to fully accept it, heal, and move on. And sadly, Cindy and George are older, and they may not live long enough to find true peace for themselves. Twenty two years of dealing with a sociopath is a lot to get past.

I am giving George the benefit the of the doubt. If he is lying, it's not to be deceitful or cover anything up. I think his lying is more lying to himself about what happened and how he reacted. I think it's only been since he found out how Casey was going to defend herself that he has finally been able to start cutting himself a break, but it must be so hard for him. And I think what we think as creepy is just the way he has learned to deal with Casey and deal with himself over the years. I admit that I actually feel a lot of sympathy for him and Cindy now, and I never thought that would be true. Seeing how Casey is in court and in those videos and texts, the abject coldness and uncaring of how she is towards anybody but herself over and over again, shows me how cruel, thoughtless, and unloving she was not only to Caylee but her whole family and anyone that wasn't of any use to her. I can't imagine sharing a life with a person like that, and I think her family is lucky to come out of this as intact as they seem to be right now.

 

[Jean517]

I can't help but think of Ann Richards saying: "Poor George"
He's kind of a pathetic character in all of this.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

IDK, but I have been posting for over two years that I thought George may have helped Casey dispose of Caylees' body because when he found out about it, the body was in a state of decomposition.

I am going to stop posting that opinion because I wasn't even referring to JB's OP. I surely do not want to confuse that issue.

MOO

I'm with you as I've contemplated the same thing many times. I just didn't hear JB claim that (that GA disposed) in his opening statement. He shocked us with the Kronk theory - whatever that is. Can't wait to hear that one - NOT!

 

[Robinez]

Im a lurker mostly... I want to thank you all for your wonderful insight and just being here.

I cant hep but think George was "Hinky" at best on the stand. All of his answers (And I cant remember verbatim but...) Didnt he answer all of the questions concerning the morning of June 16. in "General" terms.... Like "I usually wake up right after Cindy "Would" leave"
"I usually give Caylee Breakfast" etc.
IMHO he never answered the question specifically about that day other that the way over the top description of what Caylee was wearing. I find it so oddd that he is so general with his answers about the happenings of the day and so specific about Caylees clothing. It doesnt fit.

I was looking @ the timeline over at A candy Rose and the general answers he gives in the first hearing ias the same and are just not sounding truthful.

From the beginning I have thought Casey killed her child, IDK if accidental drowning or something more sinister. But I do think George knows a LOT more OR he is scared that Casey knows something on him. He has always struck me as a <mod snip> but now Im thinking why is he lying.
Your thoughts?

Just want to piggyback on clayangels sentiments concerning this community. I have also been a longtime lurker off and on but this case is the one that got me and I finally registered. I was also aware that as a whole, opinions were appreciated and respect for other poster's were the norm. Thank You.

That said, I am afraid I will have to disagree with the one who gave me the piggyback. I think GA is being truthfull. Yes, he may have been less than nice to certain member's of the media, and let's not forget, member's of his community that stalked his home too. But, I think that was out of sheer frustration because he truly didn't know what the heck was going on around him. ICA's actions spelled Guilty every step of the way. GA's action's spelled a man that didn't know which end was up and felt powerless to do anything about it.

GA & CA acted like fool's sometime's in the begining. For example, The ZFG deposition with John Morgan. But that only proves to me that they finally felt like thay had some control over something for the first time in a long time, they could finally do something, anything. I am not disputing whether it was a good move on their part, I am just saying that I can kinda see what they may have been thinking AT THE TIME.

Now, it seems that they have reconciled themselves. I will give GA credit where credit is due. He certainly fight's a good fight for those that he love's. I cannot imagine the sorrow he must have felt when he figured out that his daughter was a killer and then the devestation when he was told he was being accused of child molestation.

I have been curious about something.. Is JB allowed to bring in GA's suicide attempt as a red herring? I am wondering that maybe he can't because with all the cr@p that he threw against the wall in opening, I would have thought he would throw that out too to see if it stick's.

Sorry to be so long winded.

TC, Robin

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I do believe GA is lying about the events of June 16, but I also think there are a lot of bizzare things that happened in the Anthony household. What has happened to Caylee as unfortunate and tragic as it is has brought it all to the public eye. We all have different coping mechanisms, our experiences are all very different and being a incest survivor--its possible. All the stories the ICA told from what I have heard on the videos were too unbelievable/bizzare for a professional not to think that something was seriously wrong with this woman. To be caught in sooooo many lies and to continue fabricating more and more--is that cunning or is that a little wacko? IMO CA is not being honest in her testimony either--why lie about whether you received a large number of calls from your daughter on the day in question-the day your granddaughter went missing? The body language suggested deception to me. You are certain that you did not leave the ladder up, and GA didn't leave the gate open, but ICA could have come back to the house to go swimming--hummmm. You have already lost your beloved granddaughter, so why throw your only daughter under the bus?

:welcome5:

bbm ~ What's wacky about that is to throw KC under the bus but then almost immediately go into coverup mode for her after doing so.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Carp, I never thought about it that way that the Lawyers would be continuing to lie too by supporting trying to find an alive Caylee. It seemed like a long time; it was five months. I'm thinking that KC may have dragged out telling them anything for a long time too. From my understanding they go by what the defendant tells them. Maybe all of the professionals they arranged to meet with KC helped get to the bottom of it and/or unknowingly helped KC formulate a new lie.

Regardless, KC must really, really hate GA to do this to him.

I don't know..........

Knowing what KC's supposed "story" about an accidental drowning is now, I suspect that KC may have told this story to Baez sometime in November, around the time that Dominic Casey went nosing around...have to consider it more, but perhaps this is when Cindy learned of this "tale" too....(IF she, in fact, played a part in DC going out poking around)...

 

[PaperDoll]

I feel for George. I don't know if he's lying or not. I see a man who is in a very unpleasant situation that NO PARENT wants to be in. He has been put through the ringer, if you will, and it's all being televised for all to see. It would be hard to think clearly when you find out your granddaughter has been missing for 31 days, and your VERY OWN DAUGHTER never reported her missing???? :banghead: :banghead: Then your very own daughter gets arrested and his considered a suspect. WOW, a lot to deal with, along with trying to comfort his wife who is also distraught. So, is he lying? I don't really know, but I do not think he had anything to do with the death of Caylee..