Is it possible that Avery WAS guilty of the rape of PB?

[Tawny]

You are totally entitled to being appalled. I am appalled that people still think that law enforcement might have somehow killed Theresa, but we are all entitled to be appalled. And, I would love to see a legitimate document that says that Allen admitted to raping PB. This could make a huge difference in how I feel. So far, I've never seen that.

Do you believe Colborn when he says an officer from Calumet called and had "someone" in custody who admitted to that rape?

 

[Sinsaint]

You are totally entitled to being appalled. I am appalled that people still think that law enforcement might have somehow killed Theresa, but we are all entitled to be appalled. And, I would love to see a legitimate document that says that Allen admitted to raping PB. This could make a huge difference in how I feel. So far, I've never seen that.

Well, if you trust Colborn in all other aspects of his testimony, you should have no issues trusting his testimony that he received a call in 1995-96 from a detective who said Allan confessed to a rape in their county that another man was serving time for. Must be a small county because when the information was passed down the food chain it was stated they had the right guy. They either recognized the name Allan as a potential suspect in PB's rape case or the county is so small Avery was the only rapist who was serving time.

(snip)

 

[norest4thewicked]

Do you believe Colborn when he says an officer from Calumet called and had "someone" in custody who admitted to that rape?

Not necessarily. I would need to see the context.

 

[Sinsaint]

Honestly, there is no reason to be insulting and rude. I am entitled to my opinion, am I not?

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. With that said, your opinion that Avery committed the rape against PB couldn't be remotely possible unless PB had consensual sex with Gregory Allan that would explain how his pubic hair was found during her rape kit. See how insulting that scenario would be? PB was the victim of a brutal assault. Steven Avery was the victim of misidentification. To have any ther opinion on the matter is insulting to the victims in that case. Let it go.

 

[JudyBolton]

I really don't know why this thread is even here! There is nothing to discuss as it has been scientifically proven using DNA evidence that Gregory Allan committed the rape.

 

[katydid23]

Of the following four possibilities.....

a) the ex-boyfriend murdered TH
b) Lenk murdered TH
c) the cop that read the license plate murdered TH
d) SA raped PB

...I'd say (d) is the least likely.

I'd say C is the least likely.

 

[shadowraiths]

I admit that I don't know squat about DNA, but the fact that she remembered his face weighs heavily on the way that I feel. If all other tests can be said to be tampered with, according to SA's claim that he was framed, then one DNA test could be too

Fyi, eye witness testimony is unreliable. This has been researched for decades.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I admit that I don't know squat about DNA, but the fact that she remembered his face weighs heavily on the way that I feel. If all other tests can be said to be tampered with, according to SA's claim that he was framed, then one DNA test could be too.

When I was 18, I worked in a small, retail store. One evening, just as the sun went down and it started to get dark, a man came in, pulled a gun with a silencer on it, and told me to open the cash register. At first I thought he was joking, but as soon as I realized he was not kidding, I looked at him and decided that I would memorize his face. After I gave him all the money, he told me to lay on the floor and not get up for 10 minutes or he would kill me. After what was probably 20 minutes, I crawled to the back of the store and called the police and the owner. After the police came, I was sent home, quite shaken. About a month later, I was called down to identify the man in a photo lineup. I immediately was able to pick him out of the other photos. Then, there was a lineup where I had to go behind glass to identify him. It was as if he had a spotlight on him and I again picked him correctly and immediately. It was only later that I found out that over a month's time, he had robbed 4 businesses and had killed two people. I can tell you that this is a big reason why I feel that if PB identified SA, it is most likely he was the one who raped her. It might not seem logical to people who believe that DNA can't be messed with. But, these are some of the same people who insist that other tests were tampered with.

Please explain how you think somebody in SA's position could tamper with DNA evidence.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

This post is insane. No. Not guilty. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

 

[stephsb]

I admit that I don't know squat about DNA, but the fact that she remembered his face weighs heavily on the way that I feel. If all other tests can be said to be tampered with, according to SA's claim that he was framed, then one DNA test could be too.

When I was 18, I worked in a small, retail store. One evening, just as the sun went down and it started to get dark, a man came in, pulled a gun with a silencer on it, and told me to open the cash register. At first I thought he was joking, but as soon as I realized he was not kidding, I looked at him and decided that I would memorize his face. After I gave him all the money, he told me to lay on the floor and not get up for 10 minutes or he would kill me. After what was probably 20 minutes, I crawled to the back of the store and called the police and the owner. After the police came, I was sent home, quite shaken. About a month later, I was called down to identify the man in a photo lineup. I immediately was able to pick him out of the other photos. Then, there was a lineup where I had to go behind glass to identify him. It was as if he had a spotlight on him and I again picked him correctly and immediately. It was only later that I found out that over a month's time, he had robbed 4 businesses and had killed two people. I can tell you that this is a big reason why I feel that if PB identified SA, it is most likely he was the one who raped her. It might not seem logical to people who believe that DNA can't be messed with. But, these are some of the same people who insist that other tests were tampered with.

Eyewitness misidentifications are common under duress, and one of the leading causes of false convictions. This has been well researched, and organizations like the innocence project have done great work to help people understand this phenomena. Northwestern University's Legal Center also has great info on this issue.

One of the most famous cases of eyewitness misidentification involved a wife identifying her husband as her rapist and the killer of her unborn child. The State had no evidence to corroborate her testimony but he was convicted regardless, and served 16 years before DNA evidence exonerated him and identified serial killer Gerald Parker as the real perp. This case was detailed on Forensic Files.

John Thompson in LA served two decades on death row after prosecutors convicted him of attempted murder, which they used to prevent him from taking the stand in the capital murder trial that followed. He was innocent of both crimes. The attempted murder charge involved eyewitness testimony pointing to him as the killer, his conviction was overturned when blood found on the pants of the victim did not match Thompson's type. This case was detailed in Death Row Stories.

These are just two examples off the top of my head, the Innocence Project details dozens more on their site, including Avery's. Eyewitness identification is notoriously unreliable and has led to countless exonerations. It is not scientific, and thankfully DNA science has freed many of those wrongfully convicted.


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[Sinsaint]

There was a case, I think in Ohio, where a woman was murdered and I think her granddaughter was sexually assaulted. She said the guy looked like her uncle. He was convicted of the crime. His wife was so certain he didn't do it she started investigating the case herself. She tracked down the guy she thought did it and managed to get his DNA. Turned out she was right.

 

[stephsb]

There was a case, I think in Ohio, where a woman was murdered and I think her granddaughter was sexually assaulted. She said the guy looked like her uncle. He was convicted of the crime. His wife was so certain he didn't do it she started investigating the case herself. She tracked down the guy she thought did it and managed to get his DNA. Turned out she was right.

Yup, Clarence Elkins. That case was also covered by forensic files. (I'm a huge forensic files fan lol) that's another great example of eyewitness misidentification of someone they knew, (similar to the one I mentioned above) which shows that even if you know the person, you can still falsely identify them under duress.


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[Sinsaint]

Yup, Clarence Elkins. That case was also covered by forensic files. (I'm a huge forensic files fan lol) that's another great example of eyewitness misidentification of someone they knew, (similar to the one I mentioned above) which shows that even if you know the person, you can still falsely identify them under duress.


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Bingo! That's the guy. Thanks Stephsb!

 

[Elisaa444]

I really don't know why this thread is even here! There is nothing to discuss as it has been scientifically proven using DNA evidence that Gregory Allan committed the rape.

:clap:

:goodpost:

IMO, JMO, MOO.

 

[Madeleine74]

Prior case: 1985. Wrong/Incorrect eyewitness testimony (i.e. Direct evidence) used to convict. Real perp eventually confessed to the crime. DNA testing didn't exist yet in 1985. DNA testing exonerated him eventually.

TH case: 2005. No eyewitness testimony used to convict. Evidence was circumstantial and included forensic evidence, digital evidence, scientific, and testimony from multiple people. DNA linked SA to the victim's vehicle. A vigorous defense was provided for SA.

It's like SA is not supposed to ever be allowed charged with a crime again. He gets a free pass forever. Doesn't matter if he did a crime, he should be exempt from scrutiny due to what happened in 1985. Anyone even looking at the guy as anything but a martyr should be ashamed of themselves. SA can not ever be guilty again.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

As I've stated before, a "conspiracy" only requires 1-2 individuals who plant evidence, and then dozens who either don't care to fact check or don't want to cause any ripples if they have a "bad feeling". Who in the departments gave enough of a flip about Steven Avery to say "this doesn't feel right"? Why wouldn't they just believe and trust in Lenk/Colborn that the things they found were legit?

It doesn't take hundreds of people to plant evidence, it just takes people who have no reason to question the evidence when it's "found".

...and Steve Avery's uncle was retired from the Sheriff's Dept.....who's to say he didn't switch Steve Avery's pubic hair with Gregory Allen's...works both ways...

 

[Sustained]

...and Steve Avery's uncle was retired from the Sheriff's Dept.....who's to say he didn't switch Steve Avery's pubic hair with Gregory Allen's...works both ways...

And how did he get Allen's pubic hair once he was in jail ?

 

[MysticJynx]

And how did he get Steven's pubic hair once he was in jail ?

The pubic hair was Gregory Allens. So how did the uncle get GA's pubic hair?

Also I would hope that they had always followed the chain of evidence protocol. I don't believe their was ever question of any other seals being broken out of protocol was the blood evidence that was sealed in 1996 and should have been remained sealed till Dec 2006 when SA's defense lawyers went to find out if it was tampered with. And sure enough it was. In 2002 when JL went to the evidence to have those pubic hairs tested per the court order, he sent to the lab Pubic Hair and Fingernail Clippings. He signed out the evidence that was used in the 2002 test for DNA. The blood should never have been removed from the evidence box at all to be tampered with, so how did that seal get broken between the date JL removed hair and fingernail clippings to the time it was found in 2005?

 

[missy1974]

...and Steve Avery's uncle was retired from the Sheriff's Dept.....who's to say he didn't switch Steve Avery's pubic hair with Gregory Allen's...works both ways...

is there chain of custody evidence that links his Uncle to George Allan's pubic hairs?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

And how did he get Steven's pubic hair once he was in jail ?

What I'm saying is that the original pubic hairs could very well have been Avery's but his uncle just so happened to switched them to get his little nephew out of jail. That is...if we are talking conspiracy.