Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[dub]

The tow truck driver was Dale Williams. Some of his items were found in his garage after he went missing, as well - a gun and torn up photos of him and his wife. I mean, I haven’t looked at Ik timelines recently so maybe it’s not going to line up, but it just itches my brain.

Oh dang, I definitely never heard of that case. The timeline would depend on whether Keyes was on leave from the military at the time (which is also true of Gary Bryant’s case, and as far as I’m aware in both cases is unknown).

Both did occur right around holidays when Keyes would be more likely to have time off, but in Dale’s case it’s far enough away that Keyes would have needed WAY more time.

Eta: I just double checked the timeline, and in May 99 Keyes actually was in Barstow, not Ft Lewis, which is still a long way from where Dale disappeared but not nearly as far (10hr drive vs 18)

At a glance it doesn’t look like Keyes to me, but there’s similar timing and like weird synergy between that case and Gary’s, just like with Del Sample and Nita Mayo. But it seems like in Dale and Nita’s cases (unlike the other two) there are stronger possible suspects.

 

[imageofcontrol]

Anyone have thoughts on the Keyes maps and mapping 'system'? Like the numbers and how he appears to plan an area? With all the new revelations I've always been very interested in the geography and Keyes' tactics re: maps and planning for disposal / caching.

It seems idiosyncratic to me, not a derived system. As in, the numbers and layout meant something only to Keyes. We don't have photos but it sounds like... minesweeper? A grid with numbers. Either single numbers, or a certain value range would presumably tell him where his goodies were. Was this in an attempt to obfuscate if anyone else saw? as opposed to writing "cache here, body here, etc".

It doesn't sound quite like a true map grid either, since the numbers are somewhat random. So for navigation it would be more difficult than a traditional grid map (which Keyes would be familiar with, due to his military service).

I'm also curious about the trends and methods SITP podcast has been highlighting, power lines and their ROW, trash piles, either innocuous or nigh impossible locations (lake bottoms, rivers, but also ditches with trash and metal plates and possibly vault toilets).

 

[dub]

Anyone have thoughts on the Keyes maps and mapping 'system'? Like the numbers and how he appears to plan an area? With all the new revelations I've always been very interested in the geography and Keyes' tactics re: maps and planning for disposal / caching.

It seems idiosyncratic to me, not a derived system. As in, the numbers and layout meant something only to Keyes. We don't have photos but it sounds like... minesweeper? A grid with numbers. Either single numbers, or a certain value range would presumably tell him where his goodies were. Was this in an attempt to obfuscate if anyone else saw? as opposed to writing "cache here, body here, etc".

It doesn't sound quite like a true map grid either, since the numbers are somewhat random. So for navigation it would be more difficult than a traditional grid map (which Keyes would be familiar with, due to his military service).

I'm also curious about the trends and methods SITP podcast has been highlighting, power lines and their ROW, trash piles, either innocuous or nigh impossible locations (lake bottoms, rivers, but also ditches with trash and metal plates and possibly vault toilets).

I’m super curious about this too, but like you said I feel like it would be impossible to assess without actually seeing one of the maps.

My first thought was that numbers might refer to specific categories of things within a cache (e.g. money = 1, guns = 2, etc), which I think is similar to what you were getting at, but it sounded like there were way too many reference points for them to all be connected to caches.

So if a handful of numbers [eta: and/or reference points] are related to caches but most of them aren’t, what in the world are the majority related to?

 

[dub]

And speaking of Gary Bryant, I was considering re: the above concept of leaving victims’ belongings around early/late in his run… I wonder if in Keyes’ psychology leaving a victim’s car where it would be found would fall in the same category of “belongings”.*

If so, then both Gary (early) and Jimmy Tidwell (late) could be added to that list, and in terms of the timeline of unraveling makes me also think of Harvey Skolnick, who disappeared from OR in late 2010 and whose car was found in similar circumstances to Gary’s.

It should be noted that none of the victims on that original list had cars besides the Curriers, and we know that Keyes altered his original plan for their car in at least one sense.

*I’m sure that in some cases leaving a victims car where he did was a matter of practicality—this may have been the case with Tidwell—but with Gary and especially Harvey it wouldn’t have been.

Bumping own post because I caught a mistake.

I had Harvey Skolnick mixed up timing-wise with David Mekvold. Harvey disappeared in late 2007, David was in late 2010.

Mekvold’s case is the one more commonly linked to Keyes, and the circumstances are so weirdly similar they are almost interchangeable in some ways, but Harvey’s is the one that to me is more similar to Gary Bryant’s, and also the one that is more likely to have been Keyes.

To me, David’s looks more like a suicide or walkaway, although it does have the just-barely-cross-border element, so I definitely don’t rule Keyes out as a possibility.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

I’m super curious about this too, but like you said I feel like it would be impossible to assess without actually seeing one of the maps.

My first thought was that numbers might refer to specific categories of things within a cache (e.g. money = 1, guns = 2, etc), which I think is similar to what you were getting at, but it sounded like there were way too many reference points for them to all be connected to caches.

So if a handful of numbers [eta: and/or reference points] are related to caches but most of them aren’t, what in the world are the majority related to?

I think that they may be pre- scouted locations that he felt would be good for body disposal. JMO.