The violence of people who grew up in Gaza under the Hamas government curriculum and the UNWRA education system is horrifying. There is an entire generation of children in Gaza who grew up learning to hate and kill without empathy. With half the Gaza 1.2 million population under the age of 18, and 17 years of early childhood indoctrination to hate, terrorize, maim and kill, it's not surprising that no Arab country wants people like that living next door.
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13
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whitelilac
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Yes thank you
katydid23
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THANK YOU----I remember taking a statistics class in college and we did a chapter on polls. I was so surprised how few respondents were required in a valid way poll. It is a very small number if they do what is necessary, which is to poll a balanced amount of genders, ages, etc.
Six hundred and sixty eight people is a valid sample. IMO
1 hr ago
Displaced people move toward the southern part of Gaza in Gaza City, on Tuesday, November 28. Mustafa Hassona/Anadolu/Getty Images
Biden administration officials are discussing with their Israeli counterparts how to protect thousands of civilians who fled to southern Gaza should the Israel Defense Forces target the area once the pause in fighting with Hamas ultimately ends, according to multiple United States officials.
Among the many options that US and Israeli officials are actively deliberating include moving civilians who went south at the onset of the war back up north once military operations there have ended, one senior US official told CNN. While much of northern Gaza has already been decimated from the fighting and airstrikes, Israel has made clear it is bent on finishing its military operations there.
So far the IDF has warned displaced Palestinians against returning from the south. Moving civilians back north would represent a significant humanitarian challenge, as an estimated 40% to 50% of structures in northern Gaza have been damaged, according to satellite analysis by independent researchers.
Why start conducting operations in the south: A major reason Israel is expected to begin focusing its military operations in southern Gaza is that intelligence suggests Hamas leadership has fled to that region, according to one US official. That official did not say whether this was US or Israeli intelligence.
In private, Biden administration officials — including President Joe Biden himself — are telling their Israeli counterparts that they do not want to see the IDF resume the kinds of air strikes from earlier in the war that led to massive casualties and widespread destruction, multiple officials told CNN. Instead, Israel must be “more cautious, more careful, more deliberate, and more precise in their targeting,” one senior administration official said.
While it’s not clear whether Israel would ultimately agree, some US officials expressed optimism that Israel was at least receptive to considering such ideas.
Read more about what the US is saying to Israel as fighting is set to resume
edition.cnn.com
US wants Israel to move civilians out of southern Gaza before Israel focuses attacks there
From CNN's MJ Lee, Jennifer Hansler and Katie Bo Lillis
Biden administration officials are discussing with their Israeli counterparts how to protect thousands of civilians who fled to southern Gaza should the Israel Defense Forces target the area once the pause in fighting with Hamas ultimately ends, according to multiple United States officials.
Among the many options that US and Israeli officials are actively deliberating include moving civilians who went south at the onset of the war back up north once military operations there have ended, one senior US official told CNN. While much of northern Gaza has already been decimated from the fighting and airstrikes, Israel has made clear it is bent on finishing its military operations there.
So far the IDF has warned displaced Palestinians against returning from the south. Moving civilians back north would represent a significant humanitarian challenge, as an estimated 40% to 50% of structures in northern Gaza have been damaged, according to satellite analysis by independent researchers.
Why start conducting operations in the south: A major reason Israel is expected to begin focusing its military operations in southern Gaza is that intelligence suggests Hamas leadership has fled to that region, according to one US official. That official did not say whether this was US or Israeli intelligence.
In private, Biden administration officials — including President Joe Biden himself — are telling their Israeli counterparts that they do not want to see the IDF resume the kinds of air strikes from earlier in the war that led to massive casualties and widespread destruction, multiple officials told CNN. Instead, Israel must be “more cautious, more careful, more deliberate, and more precise in their targeting,” one senior administration official said.
While it’s not clear whether Israel would ultimately agree, some US officials expressed optimism that Israel was at least receptive to considering such ideas.
Read more about what the US is saying to Israel as fighting is set to resume
November 29, 2023 Israel-Hamas war
A temporary truce between Israel and Hamas has been extended to a seventh day, Israel Defense Forces said Thursday morning.
I remember that - very well spoken. He would be viewed as a soldier due to age and gender. Hopefully he will be released.
He was tossed into the back of a truck as a hostage. That much we know.
margarita25
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They did supposedly give Mia Schem “medical attention” for her arm in her hostage video, but as I stated on day 1 of the release of that video, I think that video was BS propaganda and taken shortly after the attack, as her makeup and hair appeared somewhat fresh, imo.
Out of allll of some of the hostages we now know were being held alive, the first hostage video they chose to release was Mia’s.
It’s been 100% hinky imo since the beginning wrt Mia.
Momoffourboys
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margarita25
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“His parents were told that hostages are more valuable to Hamas alive, and that the sense is that injured hostages were taken to hospitals.
“We know there are very capable physicians and surgeons in Gaza,” said Goldberg. “What has been explained to us is that although the injury looks horrible, it’s not a complicated surgery,” and would only involve the surgeon amputating above the jagged part of the limb.
“And then he would need antibiotics, which of course begs the question if that happened or is still happening,” said Goldberg.“
I have read, so JMO, that families tried to give the Red Cross medicine for hostages but TRC wouldn't take it.
I really have lost all faith in the Red Cross and UN over this.
margarita25
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No they were not beheaded.
They were not yanked from the womb.
They were not shot in their cribs although it might have been a kindness to do that.
As you can see from the footage the infants are not in incubators. There being no point to that as incubators are ineffective without electricity.
Being in the North the Al-Nasr hospital still had beds available which is why the children were wrapped and in their own space. In the Al-Shifa hospital there were few beds as can be seen from the published images of patients being treated in car parks and corridors.
Snip
When babies are born early, have health problems, or a difficult birth they go to the hospital's NICU.
NICU stands for "neonatal intensive care unit." There, babies get around-the-clock care from a team of experts.
Most of these babies go to the NICU (NIK-yoo) within 24 hours of birth. How long they stay depends on their health condition. Some babies stay only a few hours or days; others stay weeks or months.
_________________________________________
When you first enter the NICU, it's normal to feel a little alarmed by all the equipment you see. But it's there to help your baby get well. Here's a brief look at some equipment you might find:
- Infant warmers: These are small beds with heaters over them to help babies stay warm while being monitored. Because they are open, they allow easy access to babies.
- Incubators: These are small beds enclosed by clear, hard plastic. Temperature in the incubator is controlled to keep your baby's body temperature where it should be. Doctors, nurses, and other caregivers care for babies through holes in the sides of the incubator.
- Phototherapy: Some newborns have a problem called jaundice, which makes the skin and whites of the eyes yellow. Phototherapy treats jaundice. During treatment, babies lie on a special light-therapy blanket and have lights attached to their beds or incubators. Most babies only need phototherapy for a few days.
- Monitors:Monitors let nurses and doctors keep track of your baby's vital signs (things like temperature, heart rate, and breathing) from any place in the NICU. Monitors include:
- Chest leads: These small, painless stickers on your baby's chest have wires that connect to monitors. They track heart rate and number of breaths.
- A pulse oximetry (or pulse ox): This machine measures your baby's blood oxygen levels. Also painless, the pulse ox is taped to your baby's fingers or toes like a small bandage and emits a soft red light.
- A temperature probe records your baby's temperature and shows it on the monitor. This is a coated wire placed on your baby's skin with a patch.
- Blood pressure is monitored through an arterial line or a blood pressure cuff.
- Feeding tubes: Often, premature babies or babies who are sick can't breastfeed or take a bottle yet. Others can breastfeed or take a bottle, but still need extra calories to grow. These babies get nutrition (formula or breast milk) through a feeding tube. Tubes enter through the mouth or nose and go into a baby's stomach. They are taped in place so they don't move around. Nurses change the tubes often to prevent soreness.
- IVs: An intravenous catheter (or IV) is a thin, bendable tube that goes into a vein to give medicines and fluids. Almost all babies in the NICU have an IV. These usually are in the hands or arms, but some babies have them in other places, like the feet, legs, or scalp. IVs allow some medicines to be given in small amounts around-the-clock instead of giving your baby shots every few hours. Treatment with an IV may be called a "drip" or "infusion."
- Lines. Some babies need to get greater amounts of fluids and medicines than an IV can give. They get larger tubes called central lines put into a large vein in the chest, neck, or groin. Surgeons put in central lines. Arterial lines are placed in arteries, not veins. They're used to check blood pressure and oxygen levels in the blood (but some babies may have a blood pressure cuff instead).
- Ventilators: Babies in the NICU sometimes need extra help to breathe. A baby is connected to the ventilator (or breathing machine) by an endotracheal tube (a plastic tube placed into the windpipe through the mouth or nose). Babies who've been in the NICU for a long stay — months at a time — may have a tracheostomy (a plastic tube put into the windpipe) that's connected to the ventilator on the other end.
- Oxygen hood or nasal cannula: Some babies need extra oxygen but don't need a ventilator. Babies who can breathe on their own might get oxygen from plastic tubes in the nose (called a nasal cannula ) or from an oxygen hood placed over the head.
When Your Baby's in the NICU (for Parents)
Learn what a NICU visit will be like for your little one, what you can do to help, and how to find support for yourself.
kidshealth.org
There is no need for mobile incubators to move critically ill neonatals when they are in a fully equipped hospital complete with electricity. There was no power; there was no water; there was plenty of sewage though.
Bbm.
Exactly.
They will never receive a dime from me.
They are catering to terrorists; and have shown themselves to not care about the very people they pretend to represent.
Omo.
margarita25
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Thinking about Kfir, and remembering the walkthrough video of IDF and reporter showing evidence of hostages being held in the basement of a hospital, including the baby bottle along with the chair, rope, weapons, and calendar on the wall showing the shifts logged of Hamas guarding them.
We should find that image in the video, and see how many shifts are logged. This would potentially indicate how long they were held in that basement, fwiw.
Iirc, there were two different videos I posted. The first one did not show as much as the second one.
—-
Eta:
Video 1:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10
Video 2:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10
Baby bottle at 1:43
List of guards’ shifts at 2:10
We should find that image in the video, and see how many shifts are logged. This would potentially indicate how long they were held in that basement, fwiw.
Iirc, there were two different videos I posted. The first one did not show as much as the second one.
—-
Eta:
Video 1:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10
Video 2:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10
Baby bottle at 1:43
List of guards’ shifts at 2:10
Last edited:
Friday Fan
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That's Hama's fault. Not the ICRC. If the ICRC doesn't have access to the hostages, then they can't provide meds. Did Hamas contact the ICRC? Because the hostages were hidden and I believe they were only contacted when they were released. I don't know how the ICRC could help if they didn't have access to the hostages.
katydid23
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The tunnels below them had electricity and water. If Hamas wanted to save the babies they could have. I can't believe any doctor or nurse would leave the hospital and leave newborns behind. That sounds like BS. JMONo they were not beheaded.
They were not yanked from the womb.
They were not shot in their cribs although it might have been a kindness to do that.
As you can see from the footage the infants are not in incubators. There being no point to that as incubators are ineffective without electricity.
Being in the North the Al-Nasr hospital still had beds available which is why the children were wrapped and in their own space. In the Al-Shifa hospital there were few beds as can be seen from the published images of patients being treated in car parks and corridors.
Snip
When babies are born early, have health problems, or a difficult birth they go to the hospital's NICU.
NICU stands for "neonatal intensive care unit." There, babies get around-the-clock care from a team of experts.
Most of these babies go to the NICU (NIK-yoo) within 24 hours of birth. How long they stay depends on their health condition. Some babies stay only a few hours or days; others stay weeks or months.
_________________________________________
When you first enter the NICU, it's normal to feel a little alarmed by all the equipment you see. But it's there to help your baby get well. Here's a brief look at some equipment you might find:
- Infant warmers: These are small beds with heaters over them to help babies stay warm while being monitored. Because they are open, they allow easy access to babies.
- Incubators: These are small beds enclosed by clear, hard plastic. Temperature in the incubator is controlled to keep your baby's body temperature where it should be. Doctors, nurses, and other caregivers care for babies through holes in the sides of the incubator.
- Phototherapy: Some newborns have a problem called jaundice, which makes the skin and whites of the eyes yellow. Phototherapy treats jaundice. During treatment, babies lie on a special light-therapy blanket and have lights attached to their beds or incubators. Most babies only need phototherapy for a few days.
- Monitors:Monitors let nurses and doctors keep track of your baby's vital signs (things like temperature, heart rate, and breathing) from any place in the NICU. Monitors include:
- Chest leads: These small, painless stickers on your baby's chest have wires that connect to monitors. They track heart rate and number of breaths.
- A pulse oximetry (or pulse ox): This machine measures your baby's blood oxygen levels. Also painless, the pulse ox is taped to your baby's fingers or toes like a small bandage and emits a soft red light.
- A temperature probe records your baby's temperature and shows it on the monitor. This is a coated wire placed on your baby's skin with a patch.
- Blood pressure is monitored through an arterial line or a blood pressure cuff.
- Feeding tubes: Often, premature babies or babies who are sick can't breastfeed or take a bottle yet. Others can breastfeed or take a bottle, but still need extra calories to grow. These babies get nutrition (formula or breast milk) through a feeding tube. Tubes enter through the mouth or nose and go into a baby's stomach. They are taped in place so they don't move around. Nurses change the tubes often to prevent soreness.
- IVs: An intravenous catheter (or IV) is a thin, bendable tube that goes into a vein to give medicines and fluids. Almost all babies in the NICU have an IV. These usually are in the hands or arms, but some babies have them in other places, like the feet, legs, or scalp. IVs allow some medicines to be given in small amounts around-the-clock instead of giving your baby shots every few hours. Treatment with an IV may be called a "drip" or "infusion."
- Lines. Some babies need to get greater amounts of fluids and medicines than an IV can give. They get larger tubes called central lines put into a large vein in the chest, neck, or groin. Surgeons put in central lines. Arterial lines are placed in arteries, not veins. They're used to check blood pressure and oxygen levels in the blood (but some babies may have a blood pressure cuff instead).
- Ventilators: Babies in the NICU sometimes need extra help to breathe. A baby is connected to the ventilator (or breathing machine) by an endotracheal tube (a plastic tube placed into the windpipe through the mouth or nose). Babies who've been in the NICU for a long stay — months at a time — may have a tracheostomy (a plastic tube put into the windpipe) that's connected to the ventilator on the other end.
- Oxygen hood or nasal cannula: Some babies need extra oxygen but don't need a ventilator. Babies who can breathe on their own might get oxygen from plastic tubes in the nose (called a nasal cannula ) or from an oxygen hood placed over the head.
When Your Baby's in the NICU (for Parents)
Learn what a NICU visit will be like for your little one, what you can do to help, and how to find support for yourself.
There is no need for mobile incubators to move critically ill neonatals when they are in a fully equipped hospital complete with electricity. There was no power; there was no water; there was plenty of sewage though.
Thirty minutes? How many babies could you move in 30 minutes? I could move quite a few. And I'd move as many as I could before I left them behind.
What’s happening on the ground: Khaled Abu Samra, a doctor at the hospital, told CNN they were given 30 minutes’ warning before the Israeli operation on the complex began..
That would be horrible if it were true. This was discussed live in this thread while it was happening.
First, they were asked to evacuate for WEEKS.
Second, the 30 minute warning was to let those inside the hospital know the IDF was about to enter.
Doctors at the hospital told CNN that they were given 30 minutes of warning before the operation.
Israeli military says its forces have entered Gaza's Al Shifa hospital for 'precise' operation
International organizations have warned of crises at multiple medical facilities, including Shifa Hospital, which is the largest in Gaza City.news.yahoo.com
"We were asked to stay clear of the windows and the balconies," Dr. Khaled Abu Samra told CNN.
***of course back then there were 31 babies and BTW they were all safely evacuated to Egypt
Edited to add link to LIVE babies arrival in Egypt
Khader Al Za’anoun, a journalist inside the hospital, told CNN that Israeli tanks had moved into the hospital complex, and there were gunfire exchanges across the yard. It’s unclear whether there are IDF soldiers inside the hospital buildings, Al Za’anoun said.
What we know about Israel’s raid on Al-Shifa hospital
Israeli forces raided Gaza's biggest hospital in what the military said was a "precise and targeted operation." Soldiers found "military equipment used by Hamas," the military said in a statement but offered no evidence yet of a vast tunnel network it claimed was used by Hamas.
Dr Khaled Abu Samra is a doctor in the Al Shifra hospital.
The five infants who were deliberately left to die of starvation and whose decomposing remains were found when access to the hospital was allowed were in the ICU of the Al-Nasr hospital.
<respectfully snipped quote>
Exactly my point. The babies were safe, protected from airborne bacteria, and warmer in their incubators. Why did Hamas take the premies out of their incubators? They were safer in their little cocoons.
There was a need for mobile incubators at Al Shifa Hospital to keep babies alive in incubators after Hamas removed premies from their incubators. What hospital in the world says that it's safer for a premie to be outside of an incubator, even when the power is out?
The premies were not terminal, therefore they should have been kept in the safest space possible - their incubators. 31/39 babies were successfully transferred to hospitals in Southern Gaza.
Does that mean that Hamas does not cooperate with Red Cross (and Red Crescent) or the UN, or the UNWRA?
The Hamas government doesn't cooperate with the Red Cross, the UN, or the WHO, yet the government and their soldiers, in uniform, follow the orders of good rich men in Qatar?
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