Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

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(Translated by Google)

Qualified to carry out terrorist attacks and deliver the kidnapped to the Red Cross: the women of Hamas​

They appear in the propaganda videos in which the terrorist organization records the release of its hostages, learn to launch missiles and practice using weapons and placing explosive charges: "The Muslim Brotherhood makes sure that they are the second hand." These are the "daughters of Hamas​


View attachment 465357


Although the women in Hamas are not combatants and are not in the Nukhba force, the terrorist organization uses their presence to repel allegations of sexual violence, and their role is to assist on the home front and transfer the abducted women to the Red Cross.
1701532948156.png
For the first time, the video shows people dressed in Islamic Jihad uniforms alongside Hamas operatives, leading the abductees to a Red Cross vehicle and participating in the entire play. At the end of the video, jihad terrorists and Hamas terrorists are seen hugging and kissing each other, as if they had now won a heroic battle.
 
Interesting how this article subtly blames the formation of the Israeli state for these men becoming the homicidal maniacs they are. Wow. jmo
I don't see it that way. It's just stating where they are from. They're not outsiders. When looking at terrorists, they will often indicate whether they are "homegrown" or "outside". The majority of residents of Gaza are refugees. It's just a fact. They are stateless and don't hold citizenship in any country. If Sinwar had citizenship in a country, they would also state his citizenship. For instance, if he was from Syria they would state this. There are also Palestinians who are citizens of Israel. They generally live in Israel. (However, IMO, they are much less likely to engage in terrorism than refugees)
 
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This is a piece written by Gershon Baskin (influential peace activist and hostage negotiator who has negotiated with Hamas on behalf of Israel for two decades) in which he lays out a five step path to peace after the war.

From the article-
“How will we get out of this hell of ongoing war? What state of mental health will we be in the day after the current war? The two nations are now going through their greatest trauma since the establishment of the State of Israel. Without comparing, October 7th was the most traumatic event for the people of Israel since the Holocaust. For the Palestinians, Hamas brought the Palestinian cause back 75 years and today the Palestinians are experiencing a second Nakba. We as Israelis have lost our security and the sense that there is a country behind us that protects us. The Palestinians have never had a state that protects them and cares for their well-being.

The victory picture of this war must be political. The massive killing and destruction within the Israeli communities on the Gaza border and in the Gaza Strip itself will remain etched in our collective memories, Israelis and Palestinians, for many years to come. A new chapter in our narratives is being written these days and the two nations will use these new chapters as another layer in our shared refusal to recognize the rights of each other to exist as a sovereign nation on part of the common homeland.

The history of the two nations during our hundred years war of survival has had almost no break from our so-called national duty for collective mobilization of our national movements to continue fighting until the death, our own and the death of the other side. The history of the two nations here is so full of blood, hatred, religious-divine-messianic impulses, and the sense of the righteousness of our cause (on both sides) along with the burning pain in each of us that drives us to seek revenge has been so much stronger than the logic that requires us to find a way to invest in the sanctity of life rather than the sanctity of death. Haven’t we had enough martyrs already? Didn’t we bury enough of our children?

How will we get out of this hell of ongoing war? What state of mental health will we be in the day after the current war? The two nations are now going through their greatest trauma since the establishment of the State of Israel. Without comparing, October 7th was the most traumatic event for the people of Israel since the Holocaust. For the Palestinians, Hamas brought the Palestinian cause back 75 years and today the Palestinians are experiencing a second Nakba. We as Israelis have lost our security and the sense that there is a country behind us that protects us. The Palestinians have never had a state that protects them and cares for their well-being.

After this terrible war, there must be an “epiphany” on both sides that will make us look ahead, focused and sober, towards creating a new reality in which our energies will be invested in rebuilding our lives and communities based on the acceptance of the very simple principle (but probably very difficult to accept) that everyone who lives between the River and the Sea is entitled to the same right to the same rights. Until both sides recognize the legitimacy of the existence of the other side as a people with an equal right to live here in the common homeland – in the Land of Israel, in the Land of Palestine, the killing, terror, destruction, hatred and desire for revenge will not end.

Obviously, those who brought us to this point must go home. Neither the Israeli leadership nor the Palestinian leadership has the right to continue to lead us. They brought us, all of us to this point and they must go. We Israelis must get out of the delusion that we can rule over another people for fifty-six years and expect to have peace, or to imprison two million people in a closed, small and dense area like the Gaza Strip with abject poverty and with a very young population devoid of any hope for a better future and expect to have quiet. The Palestinians must get out of the illusion that the Jewish people have no connection to this land, that they are occupying foreigners whose existence as a people in this place is illegitimate. This is the meaning of having the same right for the same rights. This is the foundation on which we can build together instead of continuing to kill and destroy.

The day after tomorrow, when the war ends and Gaza will be completely occupied by Israel again, it must be clear to everyone that Israel has no intention of staying in Gaza. The extremist voices in Israel calling for resettlement in Gaza must be shut down immediately. The delusionary Israeli messianic voices calling for mass deportation of Palestinians in Gaza must be stopped even with the threat of arrest because mass deportation is clearly a war crime.

[…]

The five components are:
1. Palestinian leadership heading the process of stabilization in Gaza while carrying out deep reforms in the Palestinian Authority, including democratic elections for the parliament that must win the legitimacy of the Palestinian people.
2. Stationing a multinational Arab force invited by the Palestinian government and led by the Palestinian security forces with a limited mandate of the United Nations Security Council.

3. International commitment to a peace process designed to bring about a two-state solution.

4. International mobilization for the financing and reconstruction of the Gaza Strip and accelerated economic development of the Palestinian state.

5. New leadership in Israel and Palestine

The basic premise of the entire plan proposed here is that Hamas as a military and governmental force no longer exists. The idea of Hamas and the public support for it will still exist and there is no military way to fight against this. Ideas and ideology need to be challenged with better ideas and ideology. The intention of the plan detailed here is to replace the ideas of resistance and the sanctity of death for Palestine with the possibility of living for Palestine and a well-founded hope that the future will bring independence, freedom and life with dignity.“

 
Polish-Israeli historian Alex Dancyg (75 year old) is still a hostage.
He sent a message to his family through a freed hostage (I wrote about it upthread).
He was OK, not abused.
He was even given medicines.
He gave historic lectures to other hostages.

JMO
I think it's the women and children left that are not well. Otherwise why not release them, they had a ceasefire and plenty more women and children to continue to hold the ceasefire.. plenty more people Israel could release at 3 for 1 for the trades.

The deal never included men, only women and children. So I wouldn't expect HAMAS to release Alex Dancyg as one of the 10 per day.

They released men who were arranged in other deals like the Thai men and the Russian men, but other than that I don't think any male older than 18 was released.
 
Was this treatment by Hamas, or ordinary Palestinians who hid the hostages in their homes ?
Starting to not see much difference.
Monstrous behavior.
Disgraceful and inhumane to starve people.
Thankful the Thai workers and some of the Israelis are free; but sickened at the thought of those who remain.
Omo.
 
IMO They didn’t fulfill the hostage release deal because the hostages still in captivity were so terribly abused. The women were probably raped like the women were on 10/7. The men probably beaten and brutalized like the men were on 10/7. Hamas doesn’t want to lose the support of the people who are falling for their propaganda.

Maybe. Somebody else in these threads posted a theory that they’re going to hang onto the remaining hostages until they run low on supplies again and need them as a bargaining chip. I hope that’s true because it would mean they’re still alive.
 
2min ago

Netanyahu to hold press conference, take questions tonight

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will hold a televised press conference at 8:15 p.m. tonight, his office announces.

During the conference, the premier will take questions from the Israeli press, a rarity.

He will reportedly appear alone, without Defense Minister Yoav Galant or war cabinet minister Benny Gantz.
 

The claim: Video proves IDF tanks fired on Israeli citizens in a kibbutz on Oct. 7​

A Nov. 26 Instagram video (direct link, archive link) shows soldiers from the Israel Defense Forces being interviewed about fighting terrorists in a kibbutz in Israel on Oct. 7. A kibbutz is a communal settlement in Israel.

On-screen text included in the post reads, "IDF tanks fire on their own people," while the post's caption reads, "The hidden realities of Oct. 7th.”

The video was liked more than 100,000 times in four days. It was first shared by another Instagram account that obtained over 4,000 likes.

Our rating: False​

None of the soldiers interviewed in the clip say they shot at Israeli civilians, and the video does not show evidence of Israeli tanks firing on civilians. The Palestinian militant group Hamas claimed responsibility for the Oct. 7 attack on Israel.

 
Starting on a list of the dead hostages announced today (and this week), I might not have all names but here are some:


“Another four hostages taken by Hamas during the terror organization's rampage in southern Israel on October 7 were announced as being dead, Israeli security forces and media stated on Friday.” / source: JPost


1. Ofir Tzarfati, 27, soldier abducted from vicinity of Re'im base on October 7

2. Guy Ilouz, 26 - abducted from music festival, “killed in captivity”

3. Eliyahu Margalit, 75, “kidnapped by Hamas” and “murdered in Gaza”

4. Ofra Kidar, 70, Kibbutz Be'eri, “murdered in Gaza while held hostage by Hamas. Her body is currently being held by Hamas.”

Other “hostages whose deaths were confirmed today” / BBC

5. Arye Zalmanovich, 85

6. Eliyahu Margalit, 75

7. Maya Goren, 56


Announced Tuesday:

8. “Israel Defense Forces confirmed on Tuesday the death of hostage Ravid Katz, who was taken captive from Israel during the Hamas attack on October 7.” Source

9. Ronen Engel, 54, “previously thought to be a hostage in Gaza following the October 7 attack, was murdered by Hamas.”


* I had initially left Ronen Engel off this list because I wanted research further to make sure he wasn’t just now being identified after being killed on October 7 because the above said “previously thought to have been a hostage…”. However, “The kibbutz does not say when he is thought to have died. His body is believed held by Hamas in Gaza.” So unless they killed him on October 7 and took his body, he either died from injuries afterwards or was killed in captivity.

Engel family (L-R): Yuval, Karina, Mika and Ronen. The family was taken captive by Hamas terrorists on October 7, 2023, from Kibbutz Nir Oz. Three members were released on November 27, 2023, while father Ronen remains captive in Gaza. (Courtesy)

Engel family (L-R): Yuval, Karina, Mika and Ronen. The family was taken captive by Hamas terrorists on October 7, 2023, from Kibbutz Nir Oz. Three members were released on November 27, 2023, while father Ronen remains captive in Gaza. (Courtesy)

Kibbutz says resident Ronen Engel murdered by Hamas; family freed from Gaza this week

December 1, 2023.
——

* How do they know he was murdered if Hamas still has his body.

I think there’s some intel with these dead hostages going on behind the scenes. I’m not sure if during the talks Hamas told them about some that were dead and provided proof from a distance. Or if other hostages released witnessed them being killed. But whatever the case many hostages have recently been confirmed as dead.
 
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IDF announces the death of Col. Asaf Hamami, 41, the commander of the Gaza Division's southern brigade, who was killed on October 7 and his body is being held by Hamas.
Another photo of Asaf. May he rest in peace.

IDF says senior officer was killed October 7, body being held by Hamas

Col. Asaf Hamami, the commander of the Gaza Division's southern brigade who was killed on October 7, 2023. (Israel Defense Forces)
Col. Asaf Hamami, the commander of the Gaza Division's southern brigade who was killed on October 7, 2023. (Israel Defense Forces)

[...]

... Hamami was from Kiryat Ono.

In recent days, the IDF has been confirming the deaths of several hostages held by Hamas, due to new intelligence and findings obtained by troops.

Hamami is the most senior officer to have been taken hostage by Hamas.
 
Rocket sirens in Northern Israel, including Nazareth
I am not at all surprised that Christian holy sites are receiving unwelcome attention.
They and Christians along with many others of faith have been under attack for many years now. Focus of special attention being the Al-Aqsa Mosque which is a real bone of contention relevant to the present situation between Israel/Gaza strip.
Snip
Patton wrote that in recent years, the lives of many Christians have been made “unbearable by radical local groups with extremist ideologies.”

“It seems that their aim is to free the Old City of Jerusalem from its Christian presence, even the Christian quarter,” he said.

Holy sites, including churches, have been desecrated and vandalized, while offenses have been committed against priests, monks and worshipers, Patton charged.

“These radical groups do not represent the government or the people of Israel. But as with any extremist faction, a radical minority can too easily burden the lives of many, especially if their activities go unchecked and their crimes are unpunished.”

Snip
The Al-Aqsa Mosque is situated in the heart of Jerusalem's Old City on a hill known to Jews as Har ha-Bayit, also known as the Temple Mount and al-Haram al-Sharif, or the Noble Sanctuary.
Many a time, the Dome of the Rock (a shrine), and Al-Aqsa (a mosque), have been confused as the same. While both lie in the same holy place, they are two distinct buildings with different backgrounds.

The Al-Aqsa mosque's compound overlooks the Western Wall, a sacred place for Jewish prayer. Jews consider the Temple Mount their holiest site, believing that King Solomon built the first temple there 3,000 years ago. The Romans destroyed a second temple at that location in AD 70.

The site is also considered important by Christians because of its association with events in the life of Jesus Christ.
 
Moment strikes hit residential complex in Gaza’s Khan Yunis | AFP

* these strikes are all very targeted, I wonder which leader lived there

—-

There is this intriguing post from the IDF spokesman for the Arab media and I have been wondering if IDF thinks they may have been killed in this strike

Where did he disappear?
Rawhi Mushtaha, Secretary of the Hamas Political Bureau. The right hand of Yahya Sinwar

Issam Al-Dalis, member of the Political Bureau, head of government follow-up and responsible for Hamas’ ruling institutions

Ali Al-Amoudi, member of Hamas’ political bureau and head of the media department

Sameh al-Sarraj, member of Hamas’ political bureau and internal security official

Why is Hamas silent about the fate of these people?

 
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“So what’s the plan Tom?”

“Fix my broken child. Fix my broken baby.”

9 year old Emily Hand’s family father and sister speak out about what Emily and her family have endured since October 7th, when she was brutally kidnapped by Hamas and held hostage in Gaza.

Emily's father says when she has recovered enough, "I'm going to find out where and if Beyonce' is touring and I don't care where it is in the world, she's going." :cool:
 
5 min ago

Negotiations between Israel and Hamas broke down over release of women​

[...]

Israeli and US officials believe Hamas continues to hold hostage a number of women between the approximate ages of 20 to 30 – many of them kidnapped from the Nova music festival – CNN previously reported. Hamas has been insisting that some of the remaining women they were holding hostage were considered part of the Israel Defense Forces, which Israel denies.

Earlier Saturday, the Israeli government announced it recalled its team of negotiators from Qatar after reaching a “dead end” in talks.

“The Hamas terror organization did not fulfill its part in the agreement, which included the return of all women and children held hostage, in accordance with a list sent to Hamas and approved by them,” the statement said.

 
Another photo of Asaf. May he rest in peace.

IDF says senior officer was killed October 7, body being held by Hamas

Col. Asaf Hamami, the commander of the Gaza Division's southern brigade who was killed on October 7, 2023. (Israel Defense Forces)'s southern brigade who was killed on October 7, 2023. (Israel Defense Forces)
Col. Asaf Hamami, the commander of the Gaza Division's southern brigade who was killed on October 7, 2023. (Israel Defense Forces)

[...]

... Hamami was from Kiryat Ono.

In recent days, the IDF has been confirming the deaths of several hostages held by Hamas, due to new intelligence and findings obtained by troops.

Hamami is the most senior officer to have been taken hostage by Hamas.


:(

From above:

“In recent days, the IDF has been confirming the deaths of several hostages held by Hamas, due to new intelligence and findings obtained by troops.”

Exactly, that’s what I just said, it’s apparent they have new intel. How do they know about Hamas holding these specific bodies.

I would presume the soldiers would have been kept separately from the civilian hostages, but maybe not, especially in the initial chaotic time of the abductions. So with no soldiers released to date to confirm as eyewitnesses, how do they know of their bodies are still being held by Hamas. Maybe they have video, or maybe released hostages were kept with them and witnessed it.

So was Ofir Tzarfati, 27, soldier abducted from vicinity of Re'im base on October 7 also killed on October 7, or was he kept alive for a while, checking to see if there’s anything else on this.

* Also working on a file now of the five female hostages believed to be being held by Hamas.

—-

As I stated recently during the hostage releases, with many hostages emerging alive that I didn’t think would, I realized I was so clouded by their murderous brutality that I forgot that the hostages were more valuable to Hamas alive, as one hostage’s family reported being told by authorities in article upstream.

However, now I’m again clouded because it seems now many are in fact being reported as being killed in captivity.

One thing I do think is that they will definitely keep some soldiers alive for the big trades, especially if a top Hamas/PIJ, etc. is captured.
 


Hamas would not even feed her dog.
Maya had to share her meager rations.
Brutal.
 
To me one set of children is not less important than another set of children.
No, they are not less important. Yet their leaders are treating them as such which is putting them in extreme danger.
I would write the same posts for ANY nationality of children and for ANY nation experiencing what Palestinians are now, which is disproportionate and unacceptable.
It seems disproportionate because their leaders are using them as human shields. That is unacceptable but so far has been unavoidable .
Palestinian children are getting killed now and it needs to stop now.
YES, it does need to stop. So Hamas needs to immediately release ALL the hostages and empty the tunnels. That would stop all the bombing immediately.
Why didn’t Israel evacuate all the children and women to Israel and then razed the whole Gaza to the ground like it is now? There are ways of protecting innocent lives.
Israel tried to evacuate all the women and children and hospital patients---Hamas refused to allow them to evacuate.
Hamas is responsible and Israel is responsible.
They do not share equal responsibility here. Hamas spent two years planning a massive brutal massacre. They used stolen supplies and donations fro their own people to fund this massacre.

They pretended to be negotiating a peace treaty with Israel during these 2 years as a way of tricking them into trusting them . They struck at sunrise and committed brutally cruel and ghastly crimes against women and children and the elderly. Then sent videos of their deeds to try and further horrify and humiliate their enemies.

Many of the touted Arabs who had been living among and working with the Jews inside Israel betrayed them by handing over their names and addresses and personal info, to Hamas.

So I cannot say that Israel is as responsible as Hamas his for these recent deaths. Hamas started this war on purpose. They knew what would happen after they committed these atrocities.

Israel did not start this war or want this war. That is in Hamas. But once the war started Israel went all in. That is tragic for the people of Palestine. And yet it is the very leaders in Palestine that put their people in this dangerous, vulnerable situation.

What would you do if your neighbours did a home invasion of YOUR home, raped your daughters, killed your sons , kidnapped and held your grandchildren hostage ands sent you videos of the crimes on your Facebook page? Seriously, imagine that really happened in your home? Would you immediately forgive and forget and call a truce?
 
9. Ronen Engel, 54, “previously thought to be a hostage in Gaza following the October 7 attack, was murdered by Hamas.”


* I had initially left Ronen Engel off this list because I wanted research further to make sure he wasn’t just now being identified after being killed on October 7 because the above said “previously thought to have been a hostage…”. However, “The kibbutz does not say when he is thought to have died. His body is believed held by Hamas in Gaza.” So unless they killed him on October 7 and took his body, he either died from injuries afterwards or was killed in captivity.

Engel family (L-R): Yuval, Karina, Mika and Ronen. The family was taken captive by Hamas terrorists on October 7, 2023, from Kibbutz Nir Oz. Three members were released on November 27, 2023, while father Ronen remains captive in Gaza. (Courtesy)

Engel family (L-R): Yuval, Karina, Mika and Ronen. The family was taken captive by Hamas terrorists on October 7, 2023, from Kibbutz Nir Oz. Three members were released on November 27, 2023, while father Ronen remains captive in Gaza. (Courtesy)

Kibbutz says resident Ronen Engel murdered by Hamas; family freed from Gaza this week

December 1, 2023.
——

* How do they know he was murdered if Hamas still has his body.

I think there’s some intel with these dead hostages going on behind the scenes. I’m not sure if during the talks Hamas told them about some that were dead and provided proof from a distance. Or if other hostages released witnessed the, being killed. But whatever the case many hostages have recently been confirmed as dead.
Theoretically every non-combatant and and civilian killed during and after the 7th is a murder victim including the five new borns left to starve to death and rot in the Al Nasr hospital.
My opinion
 
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