Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #4

[Chimera]

True, and I do feel bad for the position they are in.

It annoys me that some people (not you at all) act like Palestinians are children or dogs or something and need them to be their "Saviors". It's just ridiculous, these are adults. They can read, write, think, plan ect. They make their own choices.

Bbm.
I'd like to hope that in the revealed atrocities of this past week they'll start making different choices ?
Better choices !
How can anyone with a conscience, support the murder of a pregnant lady and her unborn baby ?
Omo.

 

[otto]

I am sure there are Palestinians who do not agree with Hamas, but after seeing the very large crowd of men (and male children) cheering and spitting on Shani Louk’s very broken and probably deceased body with what appears to be a bullet hole in the back of her head - being paraded around the streets in Gaza in the back of of a pick up truck, I feel that there is also huge pockets of support in the region for Hamas. That video will haunt me forever. Savages.

We've seen footage of people from Gaza entering Israel after the slaughter to loot electronics, motorcycles, and property from the homes of murderers Israelis. It seems like some people want to define Hamas as a gang that is unlike the people of Gaza. I don't believe that.

 

[AliceInPain]

I think the pregnant woman who is wondering where she will give birth in a month should put things in perspective. She has nothing to complain about compared to how her government has butchered pregnant women and children in Israel.

You do know that birth related deaths went down dramatically way back when pregnant women and their babies were given proper medical care in hospitals right? And it's still not 100% certain both will survive. This woman has every right to "complain".

 

[otto]

You mean the perspective of death and destruction all around her?

Chances are she’ll probably be dead before she gives birth.

Did the pregnant woman evacuate to the South? If so, she should be safe from Israeli warfare. The same cannot be said about Hamas warfare in Gaza. We know that the Hamas government blew up a vehicle in the convoy heading South.

The death toll in Gaza needs to broken into categories of terrorists, and civilians who did not loot or cheer the murders of Israelis when the Gaza government waged war on Israel. Without identifying the number of deceased terrorists, the Gaza total death toll is meaningless.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Bbm.
I'd like to hope that in the revealed atrocities of this past week they'll start making different choices ?
Better choices !
How can anyone with a conscience, support the murder of a pregnant lady and her unborn baby ?
Omo.

I was thinking about this last night. How can anyone lack that much empathy for other human beings, and engaged or even approve these atrocities. I can not begin to understand the culture they live in or the things they are taught as children who grow up and do these terrible things. The anger and hatred is deep. I’m not saying for all of them, but the hatred runs deep and wide.

 

[margarita25]

Live updates: Israel-Hamas war rages as crisis in Gaza deepens (cnn.com)
25 min ago

UN Security Council rejects Russian resolution on humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza that fails to condemn Hamas​

The United Nations Security Council on Monday rejected a Russian resolution calling for a humanitarian ceasefire of the war between Israel and Hamas because the draft did not get the required minimum number of votes to be passed.

The resolution received five votes in favor, four against and six abstentions, with the United States, the United Kingdom and France voting against due the resolution's failure to condemn Hamas for its attacks on Israel. The draft would have needed nine votes in favor to proceed.

"By failing to condemn Hamas, Russia is giving cover to a terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians. It is outrageous, it is hypocritical, and it is indefensible," US Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said in justification to the US' vote. She previously compared the attacks executed by Hamas to the "most heinous atrocities committed by ISIS."

"We cannot support a resolution which fails to condemn Hamas’ terror attacks," Ambassador Barbara Woodward, the UK's Permanent Representative to the UN, said in her explanation of vote.

France's Permanent Representative to the UN Nicolas de Rivière said "several essential elements were lacking" from Russia's draft resolution and instead encouraged the council to "unite around the draft proposed by the Brazilian presidency, and agree to condemn this terrorist attack, ensure humanitarian assistance and protect the civilian population of Gaza."

Russia’s Ambassador to the UN Vasily Nebenzya claimed the resolution failed to get adopted because of the western bloc's selfish intentions.

"The UN Security Council has once again become hostage to the aspirations of Western countries by not adopting the Russian Federation's draft resolution on the Middle East," Nebenzya stated, according to Russian state media RIA Novosti.

Moscow has previously criticized Israel’s actions and called for a ceasefire.

“The United Nations Security Council on Monday rejected a Russian resolution calling for a humanitarian ceasefire of the war between Israel and Hamas because the draft did not get the required minimum number of votes to be passed.”

Gee, what two words in the above sentence do not go together. Could it be “Russian” and “humanitarian” by chance?

 

[Cedars]

The pregnant woman in Gaza should think about the pregnant woman at the Kibbutz whose abdomen was cut open, her unborn baby stabbed lying next to her, and then she was shot in the head. As the pregnant woman slept next to her child, she should think about the 9 month old baby that was abducted with his 3 year old brother and taken to Gaza.

The people of Gaza should put things in perspective before they share their stories. They are alive, and the the global community is working hard to ensure that the people of Gaza who are not murderous barbarians have food and water.

Otto, this pregnant woman in Palestine cannot hear you, and since she can't understand English, even if you somehow got into Gaza and found her, and lectured her on what thoughts should be in her mind, she would just look at you in confusion.

If you want to vividly imagine the horror other people have suffered, then do so and feel upset about it. But you are chosing to hold those thoughts in your mind, you cannot inject them into other people's minds.

JMO

 

[Chimera]

The pregnant woman in Gaza should think about the pregnant woman at the Kibbutz whose abdomen was cut open, her unborn baby stabbed lying next to her, and then she was shot in the head. As the pregnant woman slept next to her child, she should think about the 9 month old baby that was abducted with his 3 year old brother and taken to Gaza.

The people of Gaza should put things in perspective before they share their stories. They are alive, and the the global community is working hard to ensure that the people of Gaza who are not murderous barbarians have food and water.

Ita.
Well said.
I feel for the little children and babies of both sides who do not have a choice.

Adults can make a choice.
Even if it's dangerous -- this is the time to be strong.
The ground invasion by Israel may be their (residents of Gaza) only chance to reject Hamas and overthrow the regime.

The pregnant woman in Gaza needs to take this time when she has a voice and can speak out -- to condemn Hamas and everything they stand for, and to tell the world that Hamas are evil cowards.

She was able to escape to relative safety.
She will get to hear her babies' first cry and hold the newborn.
She will watch the baby take the first steps.
Khulood Khaled is alive and so is her unborn baby.
She is luckier than the dead Israeli woman.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/17/middleeast/pregnant-women-suffer-gaza-war-mime-intl/index.html

“We watched houses dropping as we drove, thinking we could die any minute,” she told CNN. On the way, she saw refugees being struck by Israeli jets “just meters away,”
This is highly doubtful. ^^^
I don't think Israel is purposely targeting civilians who are walking to safety.

The poor Israeli woman lost both her life and the precious unborn.
This would be a good time for Khulood Kahled to show pity for what the Israelis are going through, and, most of all -- strongly condemn Hamas.
I think those words coming from the people of Gaza would be appreciated.
That's all.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

“The United Nations Security Council on Monday rejected a Russian resolution calling for a humanitarian ceasefire of the war between Israel and Hamas because the draft did not get the required minimum number of votes to be passed.”

Gee, what two words in the above sentence do not go together. Could it be “Russian” and “humanitarian” by chance?

The proverbial pot calling the kettle black ?
Some nations are in no position to be judging others ... just saying.
Omo.

 

[otto]

Otto, this pregnant women in Palestine cannot hear you, and since she can't understand English, even if you somehow got into Gaza and found her, and lectured her on what thoughts should be in her mind, she would just look at you in confusion.

If you want to vividly imagine the horror other people have suffered, then do so and feel upset about it. But you are chosing to hold those thoughts in your mind, you cannot inject them into other people's minds.

JMO

I'm simply stating that people in Gaza should not be broadcasting stories about what they fear might happen in a month when their government has waged a genocidal, barbaric war today against civilians in another nation.

 

[MyBelle]

Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad:

“As for the hostages taken by Hamas, Hamad claimed they were providing the nearly 200 people with shelter and protection.

Those hostages include some military personnel, children and one Holocaust survivor, Israeli military spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said early Tuesday morning during a briefing on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.

Hamad said Hamas would not release hostages: "But it is a war. No. Our priority now is to stop aggression and death on Gaza."

Hamad said he is more concerned with Palestinian civilians than with hostages.”

I don't believe Hamas is providing hostage military personnel with "shelter and protection."
I believe they have murdered all of the hostages and that's why they won't release them.

JMO

 

[Chimera]

Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad:

“As for the hostages taken by Hamas, Hamad claimed they were providing the nearly 200 people with shelter and protection.

Those hostages include some military personnel, children and one Holocaust survivor, Israeli military spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus said early Tuesday morning during a briefing on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.

Hamad said Hamas would not release hostages: "But it is a war. No. Our priority now is to stop aggression and death on Gaza."

Hamad said he is more concerned with Palestinian civilians than with hostages.”

Bbm.
Easy to claim this ... but not so easy to prove it ?
Second bolded says it all, imo.
Omo..

 

[margarita25]

"The nightmare 300-mile maze of Hamas tunnels standing in the way of Israeli troops: ​

How IDF soldiers face bloodbath hand-to-hand combat with terrorists in 40ft deep 'Gaza Metro' rat-run rigged with booby-traps."​

View attachment 453898

300-mile maze of Hamas tunnels standing in the way of Israeli troops

Although Israel's Defence Forces are well-trained, well-equipped and outnumber their Hamas foes considerably, the hellish battlefield that awaits them in Gaza could cause huge casualties

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Hamas in 2011 said they had constructed more than 300 miles of tunnel systems and although analysts suspected that figure was inflated, the group is sure to have dramatically expanded the network since then.

Now, military experts and analysts have shared their concern at the huge losses Israel's forces could incur if they're forced to take the fight to Hamas in the Islamists' own backyard.”

[…]

“He warned the Hamas fighters would likely mine the tunnels and deploy improvised explosive devices IEDs to cripple IDF troops tasked with clearing out the rat run.”

A Palestinian fighter from the Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Hamas movement, gestures inside an underground tunnel in Gaza in this August 18, 2014 file photo

A picture taken on January 18, 2018 from the Israeli side of the border with the Gaza Strip shows an Israeli army officer walking near the entrance of a tunnel

A member of the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of
the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, walks inside a tunnel used for military exercises during a weapon exhibition at a Hamas-run youth summer camp, in Gaza City

—-

PS:
Remind me to never again wear a green bandana on my head.

Actually, I won’t need a reminder, because we won’t forget.

 

[Friday Fan]

Although it happened, there are two sides and Palestinians were not Nazis.

(Modern tensions and conflicts are based on events that happened after WWII, after Hitler was gone)

Many Palestinian commentators denounced Hitler and Nazism.

Thousands of Palestinians opposed Amin al-Husseini and Nazi Germany, leading to over 12,000 Palestinian Arab volunteers to serve in the British army.[108][109][110] The Palestine Regiment was composed of both Arabs and Jews, which eventually lead to the formation of the Jewish Brigade consisting of Yishuv Jews.[111] Platoon 401 fought the Germans in the Battle of France and was the last British platoon to be evacuted from France.[112]

Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Grand Mufta

The Arabs were Germany’s natural friends, Haj Amin al-Husseini told the Nazi leader in 1941, because they had the same enemies — namely the English, the Jews and the Communists

Full official record: What the mufti said to Hitler

The Arabs were Germany's natural friends, Haj Amin al-Husseini told the Nazi leader in 1941, because they had the same enemies -- namely the English, the Jews and the Communists

www.timesofisrael.com

Many Palestinian commentators denounced Hitler and Nazism. In 1936, the Arab newspaper al-Difa' published an article which contained the following statement: "There will be no peace in Europe until the spirit of the Swastika, ruling Germany today, will be overcome." Newspapers such as Filastin extensively covered Germany's new armament policy. In 1934, the newspaper warned, "Europe will see no peace if it will not keep distance from the spirit of the swastika that dominates Germany today. . . . [Nazism] is an ideology full of disrespect of all peoples; it glorifies the German, and therein lies a danger."[102] In 1933, Filastin would later go on to print that "The Jews are oppressed only because they are Jews, no more, and there is no justification for that."[103] An article in Filastin titled “The Truth about the Hitler Movement: Reasons for the Persecution of the Jews”: denounced Nazi racial ideology, saying:

Hitler followers want to make their race the ruler of all races in the world. One would think, the Nazis are Christians, and is not Christianity a fruit of the Semites and not of the Aryan people? Therefore, the view of Hitler’s supporters is very strange.[103]

Editor Yusuf Hanna predicted the "biggest confrontation in history" and he dismissed the idea of a Nazi "preventive war" against Communism: "Nazism does not fight communism, but wants to enslave all peoples." In the summer of 1941, Filastin predicted that Germany could never win a multifront war: "There is no doubt that we will soon witness the time of punishment for Nazi Germany, according to all the bestialities it has committed."[104]

The leftist paper Al-Ghad warned that Palestine was directly threatened by the prospect of an Axis victory: "If Fascism will prevail, and the Arab lands will be enslaved with iron and fire, our struggle for independence will be set back for years."[104] On the outbreak of the war, Al-Ghad argued that Arabs should support Britian over Nazi Germany:

The Arab people . . . stand at the side of those who fight Fascism. The differences between England and the Palestinian Arabs . . . do not change this. Those are local struggles, which have to be delayed until the end of the tensions in the world. . . . We are not stupid [enough] to believe the sentence "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."[104]

Muhammad Najati Sidqi was a Palestinian intellectual and a leftist activist. In 1940, he wrote "The Islamic Traditions and the Nazi Principles: Can They Agree?", in which he argued that Nazism is entirely contrary to Islamic beliefs.[105][106] Sidqi had previously fought for the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. He believed that Muslims must pause the fight against Britain and support the war against Germany, which he believed was the greater enemy. He wrote that the racist beliefs of the Germans were in complete disagreement with Islam, citing both Nazi and Islamic sources: "The barbaric theory of Nazi racism fundamentally contradicts the teachings of Islam, since Islam sees in all of its followers one equal essence, as it proclaims that all the believers are brothers.'"[107] Since racial equality is integral to Islam, Nazism "represents the lowest level of concrete greed", going on to describe it as 'chaotic paganism'. He ended the book arguing that Arabs should mobolize for the Allies.

Thousands of Palestinians opposed Amin al-Husseini and Nazi Germany, leading to over 12,000 Palestinian Arab volunteers to serve in the British army.[108][109][110] The Palestine Regiment was composed of both Arabs and Jews, which eventually lead to the formation of the Jewish Brigade consisting of Yishuv Jews.[111] Platoon 401 fought the Germans in the Battle of France and was the last British platoon to be evacuted from France.[112]

 

[Sundog]

I think the pregnant woman who is wondering where she will give birth in a month should put things in perspective. She has nothing to complain about compared to how her government has butchered pregnant women and children in Israel.

Any pregnant woman would be worrying about the life of the child she carries in her womb.

My problem is with the journalists and others who publish these stories in order to blame Israel, when this suffering is due to Hamas. In a war zone, many innocent people will suffer, and Hamas brought this war to the Palestinian people, innocent and otherwise.

 

[margarita25]

More from @Dotta’s link about the tunnels, good piece by DAVID AVERRE

300-mile maze of Hamas tunnels standing in the way of Israeli troops

Although Israel's Defence Forces are well-trained, well-equipped and outnumber their Hamas foes considerably, the hellish battlefield that awaits them in Gaza could cause huge casualties

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Hamas 'knows its tunnels by heart,' said Colin Clarke, research director at the New York-based Soufan Center think-tank.

'Some are probably booby-trapped. Preparing to fight in such terrain... would require extensive intelligence... which the Israelis may not have,' he added.

'When tunnels are found, they can be closed off to shut in the people inside. In this case, the order is likely to be for no quarter to be given.'”

[…]

“The IDF has long been trying - and failing - to destroy the huge network of tunnels which were established after Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in 2007.

Not only do they run underground throughout Gaza, but several reach into Israeli territory and have long served as a launch point for many of the Hamas' attacks.

Tunnels were among Hamas' most effective tools during the 2014 war with Israel, with militants using them to move weapons, enter the Jewish state, ambush IDF soldiers, and at times even return to Gaza through the underground passages.

But it is thought Hamas has expanded the network considerably since then, perhaps in preparation for their October 7 attacks.

The first Hamas tunnels were built in 2007 between the Gaza Strip and Egypt and were designed for smuggling consumer goods to bypass the Israeli blockade.

However, some rudimentary networks existed in Gaza as early as 2002. One was used to bomb an Israeli outpost within the Strip in 2004. A second tunnel bomb attack on an Israeli outpost took place in December 2004, killing five IDF soldiers.”

[…]

“Israel has long struggled to wipe the system out, despite top of the range military and intelligence equipment.

This is primarily because the tunnels, which are believed to have cost between $30 million (£21.3 million) and $90 million (£63.9 million) to build, are extremely difficult to detect from the air.
Some of the three dozen tunnels built since the end of the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict are estimated to have cost $3 million ($2.13 million).

The tunnels are reinforced with concrete to protect them from airstrikes and from caving in.

Footage from inside some of the tunnels shows a sweaty and cramped environment, not tall enough for fighters to stand up straight.

But others are well constructed, reinforced and large enough for troops to sprint through or move contraband.

By 2013, the network had definitively pivoted away from the Egyptian border and towards Israel and there were at least three tunnels under the Israel-Gaza border, two of which were packed with explosives.

The underground network now branches hundreds of miles through the Gaza Strip reaching the towns of Khan Younis, Jabalia, and the Shati refugee camp. They also stretch into Israel.

The tunnels are used by Hamas and other Islamist groups in Gaza, including the Islamic Jihad movement in Palestine, all of whom say tunnels are needed for defence, and to get around the difficulties imposed by Israel's strict border controls.”

——-

A Palestinian militant emerges from a tunnel in Rafah, southern Gaza strip (file image)

The network of tunnels were built after Hamas took power in the Gaza Strip in 2007 and have since been used to launch several attacks on Israel (pictured, Palestinian militants in the tunnels)

Israeli soldiers aim their weapons toward their colleague dressed as a Palestinian militant, while he exits from a fake tunnel, during training session simulating urban fighting at the Zeelim army base, southern Israel, Jan. 4, 2022

Hamas uses the network to hide rockets and other munitions, facilitate communication within their organisations, conceal militants, launch attacks, and conduct training (pictured, a Palestinian youth crawls in a tunnel during a Hamas graduation ceremony)

 

[Gypsy Road]

I don't believe Hamas is providing hostage military personnel with "shelter and protection."
I believe they have murdered all of the hostages and that's why they won't release them.

JMO

My thought as well. I’m sure it has already been mentioned earlier today up thread that the carefully crafted propaganda hostage video released yesterday on Telegram was at least 6 days old (meta data was analyzed). I fear they have all been killed.

 

[Friday Fan]

Maybe he is a victim or maybe he is allowing himself and his family to be used as a human shield. We really don't know. In any case, I would rather my children be alive and have to rebuild then crushed beneath a building - but that would be my choice.

It's a chance that he is taking.
Is their proof that he's being used as a human shield?

Their options aren't the best right now. He's choosing to stay and go from building to building. Hopefully, he will stay safe, but I have no idea.

There were people who would not evacuate during Katrina. Some stayed behind because of pets. Are we supposed to judge them?

 

[Sarahlou]

I think the pregnant woman who is wondering where she will give birth in a month should put things in perspective. She has nothing to complain about compared to how her government has butchered pregnant women and children in Israel.

She's living in hell like everyone else caught up in this horror. I don't blame her at all for voicing her concerns.

I don't know how people are even functioning amongst the level of stress in both places. It's just unimaginable.

 

[sds71]

@AmichaiStein1

#BREAKING: IDF spox tells
@SuleimanMas1 We don't know yet what's the reason of the explosion at the hospital in Gaza. We are checking what happened there

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714333809603183097