Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[Zuri]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Re: Menses

Pituitary hormone levels should be checked to see if pituitary gland is functioning. The endometrium could also be dying and bleeding too. I would hope this blood work has already been done. JMV

 

[TJL]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Re: Menses

Pituitary hormone levels should be checked to see if pituitary gland is functioning. The endometrium could also be dying and bleeding too. I would hope this blood work has already been done. JMV

I think every medical professional who's read up on this or paying attention to it has wondered the same thing. But I also think Dolan and/or the family is very careful about NOT conducting or performing any tests which legitimately would support/confirm/deny a brain death diagnosis. They can't risk something like that getting into official medical files for court review. If they HAVE allowed such tests to be done, then I would take a guess at them being performed and attached to a "Jane Doe" medical record.

 

[Zuri]

As a mother, I can't help but wonder, is this the way I would want my child to 'live?' Without their 'human-personhood? 'Would I want her to have a beating heart and be able to breathe by machine, but have no way to communicate or comprehend? It is so sad. I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child. It must be incomprehensible. But millions of people have to deal with it and it still seems better than keeping the child in a limbo type state of living-death, imo.

I totally agree. One of the questions I asked my MD DH was, in looking at the image of JM liquefying brain, would she still be Jahi? The answer was no. Everything and anything that made Jahi Jahi, is most probably and with a degree of medical certainty, gone. This situation just makes me unbelievably sad for her siblings, friends and loved ones.

 

[forthelost]

I'm not sure how the "brain death isn't really death" people justify defining death by cessation of cardiac and respiratory functions. Do they believe that anyone whose heart stops shouldn't be rescuitated, because they're dead?

 

[La Louve]

Does anyone know if Dolan has been working for Jahi's family pro bono?

It suddenly occurred to me that Dolan's legal wranglings of late may have been tactical, to preempt the family should they sue him for malpractice. I'm sure at some point if/when he dumps them as clients, Mama and Uncle will turn on him in a (ventilated, artificially stimulated) heartbeat. He will want to be able to show that he did everything he could.

I feel sad for Jahi until I remind myself that the body in that bed is no longer the girl she was when she was truly alive.

And just as an aside, my dentist treats sleep apnea and is on the dental faculty of a prestigious west coast medical university. She said neither she nor her colleagues would have recommended the course of Jahi's surgeries for such an overweight child suffering from sleep apnea.

I pray that this family will find the self-forgiveness needed to enable them to let go with grace.

 

[K_Z]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Re: Menses

Pituitary hormone levels should be checked to see if pituitary gland is functioning. The endometrium could also be dying and bleeding too. I would hope this blood work has already been done. JMV

I kind of doubt they are bothering to do blood work for hormone levels-- that's kind of the least of Jahi's problems, being that the center of her brain is gone-- an area with absolutely critical structures. She was at an age to be on the verge of menarche when she became brain dead, so it doesn't seem odd to me that she could have had uterine bleeding. Fat tissue (along with ovaries, and adrenal glands) also produces estrogen, and she was very overweight at the time of surgery.

It doesn't appear (on Dolan's shared MRI view) that Jahi still has a sella turcica, or a pituitary gland, or a hypothalamus, although other slices and a radiologist or more experienced professional would have to confirm this. The sella turcica is a bony enclosure in which the pituitary resides. With the 2 weeks of no circulation or perfusion to her brain, I don't see how the pituitary could have survived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sella_turcica

If the sella turcica is gone, the tiny pea sized pituitary is almost certainly gone, too. We discussed a bit about this a few pages back, about the hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis. The hypothalamus appears to be gone, also.

Interesting little side note about the pituitary-- if a person has a tumor there, and needs surgery, the surgeon goes in thru the front of the face, under the top lip, and along the top of the maxilla thru the nose area, or directly thru one of the nares itself. Pretty cool! I saw a couple in anesthesia school. The surgery is called a "trans-sphenoidal hypophysectomy". Some good diagrams at the link.

http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/PE-EndoPitSurg.htm#.VDix7Ol0wqQ

 

[TJL]

I kind of doubt they are bothering to do blood work for hormone levels-- that's kind of the least of Jahi's problems, being that the center of her brain is gone-- an area with absolutely critical structures. She was at an age to be on the verge of menarche when she became brain dead, so it doesn't seem odd to me that she could have had uterine bleeding. Fat tissue (along with ovaries, and adrenal glands) also produces estrogen, and she was very overweight at the time of surgery.

It doesn't appear (on Dolan's shared MRI view) that Jahi still has a sella turcica, or a pituitary gland, or a hypothalamus, although other slices and a radiologist or more experienced professional would have to confirm this. The sella turcica is a bony enclosure in which the pituitary resides. With the 2 weeks of no circulation or perfusion to her brain, I don't see how the pituitary could have survived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sella_turcica

If the sella turcica is gone, the tiny pea sized pituitary is almost certainly gone, too. We discussed a bit about this a few pages back, about the hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis. The hypothalamus appears to be gone, also.

Interesting little side note about the pituitary-- if a person has a tumor there, and needs surgery, the surgeon goes in thru the front of the face, under the top lip, and along the top of the maxilla thru the nose area, or directly thru one of the nares itself. Pretty cool! I saw a couple in anesthesia school. The surgery is called a "trans-sphenoidal hypophysectomy". Some good diagrams at the link.

http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/PE-EndoPitSurg.htm#.VDix7Ol0wqQ

Thanks for the link. I'm always amazed to the nth degree as to the highly precise way they do operations like this, working in the tiniest of spaces and without being able to directly see it. I cannot fathom the amount of confidence and skill it takes to even be comfortable working in such a manner, and believe anyone able to do it definitely deserves every bit of compensation they receive.

Throw touchdowns in the NFL for millions of dollars a year? Pffft. Try operating on the center of someone's brain with little more than "chopsticks" through the nose.

 

[Donjeta]

IIRC and i'm too lazy to look for the link for the reference now, one of the people who wrote something for Dolan, said in his statement that they wouldn't do MRA with contrast because Jahi hadn't had complete blood work up done

eta it was Defina

 

[TJL]

IIRC and i'm too lazy to look for the link for the reference now, one of the people who wrote something for Dolan, said in his statement that they wouldn't do MRA with contrast because Jahi hadn't had complete blood work up done

eta it was Defina

Good catch, and isn't that just all too convenient, right? I mean, it's far cheaper and logistically easier to arrange for blood draws and testing than the cost and logistics involved in transporting the body to Rutgers for an MRI. That is, if they could get it worked out to have an MRI, blood draws and testing would be exponentially easier to accomplish, and thus there's no reason not to other than just avoiding it to prevent the existence of such telling evidence.

 

[al66pine]

I think every medical professional who's read up on this or paying attention to it has wondered the same thing. But I also think Dolan and/or the family is very careful about NOT conducting or performing any tests which legitimately would support/confirm/deny a brain death diagnosis. They can't risk something like that getting into official medical files for court review. If they HAVE allowed such tests to be done, then I would take a guess at them being performed and attached to a "Jane Doe" medical record.

bbm

I understand Dolan would not risk
---asking med professionals to examine Jahi, run tests,
--- then potentially record unwanted info (evidence of continued brain death) in official medical files, subject to discovery & ct review.

I also understand an atty rep'ing client in civil action may provide med files w pt-name-reacted to a non-treating dr
for review about causation, injury, disability, etc. and for atty & client to consider potential issues in lawsuit.

What are legit reasons why a dr would use a JohnDoe designation in med files?

Thx in adv.

 

[Donjeta]

Dolan has the progress notes from the previous hospital, Shewmon said he was reviewing them.

JMO but I think it's likely they didn't show the slightest bit of improvement as they weren't entered into evidence.

It would have been much better than Dolan's experts I think, to have the staff in the hospital taking care of Jahi for months, document her being responsive and somehow not as brain dead as before.

 

[katydid23]

Dolan has the progress notes from the previous hospital, Shewmon said he was reviewing them.

JMO but I think it's likely they didn't show the slightest bit of improvement as they weren't entered into evidence.

It would have been much better than Dolan's experts I think, to have the staff in the hospital taking care of Jahi for months, document her being responsive and somehow not as brain dead as before.

BBM

Totally agree. I think most of us know what it is like being in, or being with, a loved one under medical care. At the slightest improvement we LOVE to share the news with the hospital staff. We want their feedback, their advice, their approval and support. I couldn't wait to tell the nurse when my niece managed to eat her entire meal, and when she was feeling well enough to play checkers with me.

I cannot understand, if it is true that Jahi made so much 'progress' , why didn't the staff at her long time residential hospital, make notes and reports detailing the improvements? Why did they have to make a difficult and costly trip to Rutgers? Couldn't they have done the battery of medical tests at the NJ hospital?

 

[K_Z]

BBM

Totally agree. I think most of us know what it is like being in, or being with, a loved one under medical care. At the slightest improvement we LOVE to share the news with the hospital staff. We want their feedback, their advice, their approval and support. I couldn't wait to tell the nurse when my niece managed to eat her entire meal, and when she was feeling well enough to play checkers with me.

I cannot understand, if it is true that Jahi made so much 'progress' , why didn't the staff at her long time residential hospital, make notes and reports detailing the improvements? Why did they have to make a difficult and costly trip to Rutgers? Couldn't they have done the battery of medical tests at the NJ hospital?

Exactly. And the St. Peter's website lists 28 credentialed neurologists. Seven of them are pediatric neurologists.

Also note that not even ONE of the caregivers from the St. Peter's hospital admission has been included in Dolan's list of witnesses to the court. Not one. At any level, from nurses aide to physician. That's not an oversight or an accident, IMO. If there was anyone from St. Peter's to bolster Dolan and the family's newest claims, Dolan could have worked with St. Peter admin and attorneys to make that person's testimony available to the court and the media. Jahi is legally dead, not just medically dead. The privacy issues related to the medical records of legally dead people are MUCH easier to navigate!

It's very telling to me that no mainstream health providers who have cared for Jahi are willing to stand up and speak up to support Dolan and this family's agenda. It says to me no one else believes or supports what the family is claiming in the court petition-- that Jahi is "alive again." Dolan and the family had to cast a very wide net to find some people to pay to advance their "alive again" ideas. IMO.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO I think everything that is *not* there is quite interesting.

 

[K_Z]

Family Seeks Medical Consensus For California Girl Declared Brain Dead

A lawyer for the family of a California girl declared brain dead after complications from a tonsillectomy wants to broker a conference between several physicians who insist she exhibits signs of life and a court-appointed doctor who rejects their findings.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-fa...irl-declared-brain-dead-2014-10#ixzz3Fqk83AES

Jahi McMath’s Family Seeks Medical Consensus

Nearly a week after releasing video clips of Jahi McMath responding to verbal commands although she has been ruled brain dead, the girl’s family is seeking a consensus from the medical community, saying she is “very much alive.”

To that end, the news site says a lawyer for the family wants to arrange “a conference between several physicians who insist she exhibits signs of life and a court-appointed doctor who rejects their findings.”

http://www.theroot.com/articles/cul...al_consensus_to_change_brain_dead_ruling.html

It seems obvious to me that Dolan et al want to debate and quibble over the results of the tests that Dolans group has produced, which is very different from VERIFYING AND REPRODUCING the results NOW as a diagnostic process. A huge difference, IMO.

And, I don't think Dr. Fisher will be interested in playing that game.

Doland et al are not hosting a brain death "summit". This is not a professional educational conference. It's not a class at a medical school, or a round table "brown bag lunch" discussion in a hospital. It's not even a "grand rounds" discussion. This is a matter of BOTH medicine and law. Dolan and the family are asking the courts to revoke a legal determination of brain death, and find Jahi "alive again", for purposes of money and benefits for her care in perpetuity. That demands, at a minimum (if the courts agree to hear it), comprehensive RE-TESTING. Mr. Dolan-- I don't hear you calling for independent retesting by impartial experts.....if your results are true, they will be reproducible. Nothing to be afraid of, if you truly seek truth, and not the drama of the stage.

Really, Mr. Dolan, there is no need at all for any "discussion" or any "consensus" at this point. All that is needed is to agree to allow a panel of independent experts appointed by the court to do their own testing, and report back. That's it. THEN, and only THEN, can the "war of the experts" begin.

Your job, Mr. Dolan, is to persuade NW to make Jahi's body available for comprehensive testing by impartial experts, if she really wants an answer as to whether Jahi is still brain dead, or "alive again." No need to posture and whine and complain that no one will talk to your team of experts. IMO. Ask the courts to hear your petition, and ask the courts to VERIFY by RETESTING with both standard tests, and any additional tests of the expert's choosing. Then people will give some credence to what you are claiming, IMO.

 

[Zuri]

What I don't understand is why Dolan just doesn't get 3 independant pediatric neurologists to examine Jahi? Why not do the accepted standards for brain death determination? Yes, there are those that think differently, but in this case, why not do the norm? If they really believe Jahi is not brain dead?

 

[Donjeta]

"What we do want to do is to bring all the evidence forward to be looked at critically, and not defensively," Dolan said.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-fa...irl-declared-brain-dead-2014-10#ixzz3FqyAW0zh

and when Fisher looked at it critically Dolan complained and wanted him out of the game...

 

[Donjeta]

What I don't understand is why Dolan just doesn't get 3 independant pediatric neurologists to examine Jahi? Why not do the accepted standards for brain death determination? Yes, there are those that think differently, but in this case, why not do the norm? If they really believe Jahi is not brain dead?

MOO because she would still fail those tests.

 

[Zuri]

MOO because she would still fail those tests.

Exactly. Why are they going to such great length to circumvent the established medical standards? The only reason I can think of is money. While I appreciate their faith, if that is indeed the driving force, why the need for continued attorney involvement?

 

[TJL]

For the medical professionals here, I'm trying to figure out what the following things are:



"Brain Flow"
"Menstrual cycle brain waves" (is this PMS?)