Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[K_Z]

In brain death would the autonomous function of breathing still occur?

No. Absolutely not. That is one of the criteria for establishing brain death.

Central respiratory drive is mediated in the brain (in the area missing on Jahi's MRI posted by Atty Dolan.) With the brain dead, and brain stem, there is no respiratory drive, and no possibility of recovery of respiratory drive.

In essence, the hard drive of the computer has crashed, and no amount of pleading with tech geeks, or money thrown at the problem will get your irreplaceable files back. "Blue screen of death." No breathing. No possibility of recovery. Game over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Screen_of_Death

 

[La Louve]

"....petition for a temporary restraining order authorizing medical treatment."

Any idea what that's about? Is this related to Jahi's case?

Meaning, is this an attempt to authorize medical treatment? Or prevent medical treatment?

The original TRO issued almost a year ago prevented the hospital from removing the vent and discontinuing treatment of Jahi. I'm wondering if this matter coming up is to vacate that restraining order since it is no longer needed.

Or is Dolan playing some other maneuver? I can't figure it out. IMO anything he does on behalf of Jahi these days is mainly to get media attention and donations rolling in. Without that, the family is at (excuse the pun) a dead end.

 

[TJL]

The original TRO issued almost a year ago prevented the hospital from removing the vent and discontinuing treatment of Jahi. I'm wondering if this matter coming up is to vacate that restraining order since it is no longer needed.

Or is Dolan playing some other maneuver? I can't figure it out. IMO anything he does on behalf of Jahi these days is mainly to get media attention and donations rolling in. Without that, the family is at (excuse the pun) a dead end.

To clarify a little bit: there were two TRO's that Dolan fought for last year: the first TRO, was to prevent the hospital from removing the vent - Grillo granted that TRO because it was an emergency TRO requested at an "11th hour" request over a weekend, and Grillo wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and let it get to court the following Monday for a hearing.

The second TRO, which was also requested at the same time, was to authorize medical treatment (feeding tube, trach, etc etc etc). Grillo denied that TRO in his final decision published in January, after the two parties came to a settlement in the case out of court. The settlement being that the hospital would release the body to the coroner, and the coroner would release the body to the family, so long as the hospital would not be liable for ANYTHING that occurred after the coroner took it. (This was necessary in case the heart stopped, and the family wanted to try and sue by saying the hospital sabotaged it.)

 

[Steft50]

Depends on "why" they were on a long term vent in the first place, and whether they got weaker or stronger over the year, and whether they were able to assist the ventilator at all, or be weaned off for a period of time during the day. Also depends on the age of the person, and how debilitated they are.

Meaning, the degree to which the complex mechanisms that coordinate breathing were intact, or damaged, and where the damage was. Someone with a spinal cord injury above C3 will never be able to breathe independently. Someone with lung damage from an injury might be able to get to a place where they can heal enough to get off the vent. Someone with progressive lung disease will, well, "progress" in their lung disease, and at some point, not be able to be off the vent. Someone becoming weaker over time with a progressive neuromuscular disease likely wouldn't improve enough to wean off the vent.

Someone with profound brainstem injury (or brainstem death) would not be able to be on settings to "assist" the vent, nor able to wean off the vent for a period of time during the day.

The answer to your question is much more complex than just atrophy of the skeletal muscles. I hope that make sense!

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I asked mostly because being on a vent is a conversation I have just had with my pulmonologist and knowing what issues someone like me would face on a vent so I wasn't sure someone on a long term vent for other reasons would face the same decline in muscle ability. Thank you very much!!

 

[K_Z]

To clarify a little bit: there were two TRO's that Dolan fought for last year: the first TRO, was to prevent the hospital from removing the vent - Grillo granted that TRO because it was an emergency TRO requested at an "11th hour" request over a weekend, and Grillo wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and let it get to court the following Monday for a hearing.

The second TRO, which was also requested at the same time, was to authorize medical treatment (feeding tube, trach, etc etc etc). Grillo denied that TRO in his final decision published in January, after the two parties came to a settlement in the case out of court. The settlement being that the hospital would release the body to the coroner, and the coroner would release the body to the family, so long as the hospital would not be liable for ANYTHING that occurred after the coroner took it. (This was necessary in case the heart stopped, and the family wanted to try and sue by saying the hospital sabotaged it.)

So, it seems to me that both of those TROs are concluded/ settled. So is this a new TRO? I'm confused.

Could it be a NEW TRO request to prevent California authorities from removing the ventilator and feeding tube if the family brings Jahi's body back to California? Would that compel a hospital to provide care for her?? Is it another maneuver by Dolan to try to get California to pay for medical care?

Ie, the family drives her body back to California, then presents her for care in an emergency department somewhere, along with a TRO to prevent the vent from being removed, etc.

I'd think that's too far fetched, but with this family, nothing seems too far fetched, IMO!

 

[Zuri]

"petition for a temporary restraining order authorizing medical treatment."

I could read that 2 ways: a petition to AUTHORIZE medical treatment

Or, a petition for a restraining order previously ordered, to STOP medical treatment.

Does that make sense?

Was this TRO filed in California and who filed it? I am confused. I thought she was in NJ. Could it be that CHO has asked for scans etc to determine her level of deterioration? Or has the mother filed another motion or request? Thanks for keeping us updated KZ.

 

[K_Z]

Was this TRO filed in California and who filed it? I am confused. I thought she was in NJ. Could it be that CHO has asked for scans etc to determine her level of deterioration? Or has the mother filed another motion or request? Thanks for keeping us updated KZ.

Our thanks should properly go to TJL for keeping us updated, who has been monitoring the court filings related to this case. TJL noticed an entry for a hearing Dec 9, and emailed the county to see if more info could be learned. That email reply has something to do with a TRO and medical care, but we don't exactly know what yet. Read up a bit to see how we're all speculating about what this might be.

Here's TJL's post:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...declared-alive-again’&p=11172626#post11172626

And THANK YOU, TJL for monitoring those court filings! :loveyou:

 

[SwampMama]

The TRO authorizing medical care is puzzling to me because Jahi is in NJ, so why file in CA? Could Jahi be back in CA? Is this related to moving her back to CA (if she is still in NJ)? Is a doctor trying to remove himself from caring for her and Jahi's mother is trying to force them to treat her? This is really puzzling to me.

 

[joypath]

Was this TRO filed in California and who filed it? I am confused. I thought she was in NJ. Could it be that CHO has asked for scans etc to determine her level of deterioration? Or has the mother filed another motion or request? Thanks for keeping us updated KZ.

BBM:

Without a DIRECT & LINKABLE source, my interpretation would be that the OCME MIGHT be requesting this information! Remember, NONE of the "advanced" testing material was generated for clinical aka medical diagnostic use, SO the coroner could NOT demand via the courts these records (Also, we're discussing inter-state courtroom cooperation, not exactly an easy "row to hoe"!).
From personal experience, getting the "medical records" from an out of state facility like St. Pete's IF there were such documentation available, would be so much easier!

I do NOT believe CHO wants any part of Jahi's case/family!

 

[MissJ]

Can't believe this is still ongoing.

 

[Madeleine74]

It's like some freaky reality show version of "Weekend at Bernie's."

Can this continue to go on for another year or 2?

 

[sunflowerchick]

I can't believe we are still talking about this. I do wonder if anything can be done to save the siblings from this nightmarish situation. Can't someone step in and put a stop to this?

 

[K_Z]

Will it surprise anyone here if Jahi's family has some sort of "celebration" on the one-year anniversary of her being on the ventilator?

If I were to think like a "PR" person, I'd say that would be a good day to announce that they were re-filing the "declare Jahi alive again" legal actions. With a nice media presser to: rekindle public $ympathy, say more bad things about CHO, praise their experts for being smarter than every other mainstream medical professional in the world, more talk about Jahi's miraculous menstrual periods, and potential for "giving life" as an example of how "alive" she is, and talk about how they *only* want to come back to California, but how they are prevented from doing so by some nebulous, nefarious forces or people. Oh-- and throw in a discussion about how unfair it is that she is being discriminated against by the state and federal government by not receiving financial assistance for her perpetual care. JMO.

Dolan will stand up and say how these humble, dedicated people just want what's "right" for their daughter, and how they have been hurt and di$criminated against with Jahi being declared dead, and how a declaration of "alive again", along with the $tate and federal a$$i$tance she/ they are "entitled to" will make everything all better again. JMO.

It would play even better with the brick wall and the Dolan Law Firm logo as a backdrop.....with a pink unicorn and rainbows as the Dolan Law Firm mascot, instead of that fierce eagle predator, lol!

 

[joypath]

If I were to think like a "PR" person, I'd say that would be a good day to announce that they were re-filing the "declare Jahi alive again" legal actions. With a nice media presser to: rekindle public $ympathy, say more bad things about CHO, praise their experts for being smarter than every other mainstream medical professional in the world, more talk about Jahi's miraculous menstrual periods, and potential for "giving life" as an example of how "alive" she is, and talk about how they *only* want to come back to California, but how they are prevented from doing so by some nebulous, nefarious forces or people. Oh-- and throw in a discussion about how unfair it is that she is being discriminated against by the state and federal government by not receiving financial assistance for her perpetual care. JMO.

Dolan will stand up and say how these humble, dedicated people just want what's "right" for their daughter, and how they have been hurt and di$criminated against with Jahi being declared dead, and how a declaration of "alive again", along with the $tate and federal a$$i$tance she/ they are "entitled to" will make everything all better again. JMO.

It would play even better with the brick wall and the Dolan Law Firm logo as a backdrop.....with a pink unicorn and rainbows as the Dolan Law Firm mascot, instead of that fierce eagle predator, lol!

View attachment 63601

Just PERFECT & BRILLIANT!
And here I sat, just thinking that THANKSGIVING DAY (eve, the day or post) would be a great pre-emptive strike to "prime the pump" & start the filling the donation$ bucket$!

 

[joypath]

It's like some freaky reality show version of "Weekend at Bernie's."

Can this continue to go on for another year or 2?

Easy answer, Y E S! Totally depends upon the dedication/skill sets of the "care-givers"......

 

[TJL]

Pretty quiet here lately. I'd say unfortunately - because we all love sleuthing through the info - but it's also fortunate because this could indicate some very telling things: the family has been virtually non-existent for over a month now. That's a LONG time for them to be totally silent concerning their case (we used to almost always see something nearly weekly, if not just a public post from Nailah about "how well Jahi is doing".) I think this is indicative of, well, I don't have to tell you all

I've personally been busy researching and getting info out concerning Ferguson. I know, a whole other topic again. But that's where I've been involved lately, to keep up my "chops". Just to tide me over until we get more happenings with this Jahi case.

 

[Nore]

<modsnip>

---------------
Hi Hi, :laughing: I was scouting around Jahi and found this old article. I thought it worth a read. This is meant for all to read . didn't feel like being fussy. My niece (a nurse) long ago said her body may not digest food , words to that effect. The fact they admitted this long ago shows their real feelings IMO.. so sad. Yes it is hard to bury your child, I buried mine along with love. I agree they will be after money at the holidays.



http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24857783/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

 

[al66pine]

Re: gen. end-of-life issue, not spec. to Jahi, from the Medical Futility blog, Nov 21, by Prof. Thaddeus Pope
http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/

I share this treatment preference expressed by Atul Gawande at a recent Oregon Public Broadcasting book event.
"If I'm a brain in jar and I have some sort of sensory devices hooked up to me that allow me to speak, to think, to hear, to talk and to connect with other people, then keep me alive."

1 1/2 min vid of Atul Gawande speaking on end of life issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFZ2M0EpSuo

IIRC, K_Z referred to him as author of worthwhile reading.

 

[wendiesan]

Re: gen. end-of-life issue, not spec. to Jahi, from the Medical Futility blog, Nov 21, by Prof. Thaddeus Pope
http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/

I share this treatment preference expressed by Atul Gawande at a recent Oregon Public Broadcasting book event.
"If I'm a brain in jar and I have some sort of sensory devices hooked up to me that allow me to speak, to think, to hear, to talk and to connect with other people, then keep me alive."

1 1/2 min vid of Atul Gawande speaking on end of life issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFZ2M0EpSuo

IIRC, K_Z referred to him as author of worthwhile reading.

Thx al66pine for the reference.
I really like AG's last line--"What are we attempting to accomplish?" with the use of heroic medical measures.
It's very appropriate, IMO, in any situation so there can be clarity of purpose when formulating a plan of action and clarity of evaluation once the plan has been put into action.
I would imagine that there are a full range of speculative answers to that question for each of the players in this sad situation.
Except, of course, for Jahi.

 

[MissJ]

I wonder if Jahi's family still believes she might "wake up".