Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[fridaybaker]

I haven’t read all of the current posts yet, but I’m going to post this question anyway. Apologies in advance if it’s already been answered.
Here is the thing. My understanding is that TMPD mentioned some things that were identified in the suspect’s feces. However, I never understood that to mean that those were the only things he ate. It’s not as if they could examine his actual stomach contents. String beans and things like seeds are notoriously difficult to digest, and naturally some of them “pass through”, ahem, whole or at least partially digested. If he’d eaten meat or other, similarly easily digested food, it would not have been evident in the feces. In fact, I believe that the only way they knew that he had eaten ice cream and had barley tea was due to the empty ice cream containers, etc.
At any rate, until I can get some other sort of information on this, I’m going with the fact that he simply had some green beans at a recent meal, which could frankly be anything from a few hours to several days ago!

 

[Charlot123]

For me, drinking barley tea and eating ice cream is proof only that 1) this is what was available and 2) this is what he chose. He ate four ice cream cups, he ate half a melon, and drank tea. We don't know what the alternatives were. What if there was nothing else in the fridge that was ready to eat immediately? What if he went for the stuff he could eat with one hand? We know, for example, that he didn't use a spoon for the ice cream and he used his hand to scoop out the melon flesh -- this would seem to support the idea that he was working one-handed. How do we know the killer has any kind of relationship with texture whatsoever? Of course, we can fill in blanks and make guesses. And I can't point to anything concrete that says he isn't neurodivergent. But nor have I seen anything concrete that says he is.

As for him eating string beans with sesame, it could well be indicative of something. Or it could simply be that he was in Japan for more than 24 hours and didn't eat at a western restaurant.

The fact that he was neurodivergent came to my mind a long time ago, but I can be mistaken. However, when I saw on Japanese boards that they consider him young and neurodivergent (they say, "developmental delay"), this is when I started mentioning it. Maybe you are right, he had nothing more to eat. Or, was neurodivergent but had no sensory issues. It happens. However, I think we all feel the same about him, for different reasons.

 

[Charlot123]

SBM:

The TMPD have never officially mentioned anything to do with a foreigner beyond going to Korea to search for the shoes / checking with the national fingerprint database there / and looking into the possibility of a fish factory worker abroad. But nothing official. The Chief did say, upon seeing the stab wounds in Yasuko's face, that his first instinct was that the killer was not Japanese. But as far as the TMPD are concerned, they have no solid reason to believe the killer isn't Japanese. (Which I have a problem with but that's another matter). As for your questions:

1) do you really view it as un-Japanese murder? If so, why?
I think it's wholly possible the killer was Japanese. Wherever you have people, you have violence. I think the idea that some peoples are more or less violent depending on their race or culture is garbage.

2) what else, besides the Edwards base sand, indicates, US, and military?
The sand is not a small feature, it is one of the few clues that points to one specific location. But as I've said many times, added to this, there was also sand from Mabori Beach, which is the region where Yokosuka US Naval Base is located. So, that makes two American military bases, big coincidence. Factor in the killer's total disappearance, lack of aviation records, 'foreign' DNA (a simplification, I know but the fact remains, a certain Doctor M who is the only person to have looked upon the killer's DNA and spoken openly about it, give him a 1 in 4 chance of being Korean) -- combined with the fact that the killer IS NOT a Korean national. That, again, points to America. Specifically, Southern California, though of course Korean adoption was widespread throughout the US. I find it hard to accept that the Greater Los Angeles Area having the largest concentration of Koreans outside Korea and its 1-hour drive from Edwards is mere coincidence. There are also, albeit vague, markers for me: the fact he received medical attention but with no record of it anywhere in Japan. A US military base would fit this. The fact that his escape route fits nicely with a car, that, again, speaks to me of an American teen, not a Japanese one. I know, for a fact, that it was extremely common for people to own or have access to cars on Yokota. But then, beyond all this, my person of interest fits every single one of these elements, pound for pound. He may well be innocent, of course. But if he is, it merely shows that this type of man is not a chimera.

3) How could a Eurasian be not noticed around Setagaya in 2001?
Because I think he 'looked Asian'.

4) Could someone be waiting for him, give him a ride?
Absolutely. Although my gut feeling is that he acted alone. I think it's almost certain someone will be aware of his crime. But not directly complicit in its commission. But yes, he has a secret and I think it's now shared.

Agree with most, but consider two things.

1) they also found very local, Miura beach sand, in his pockets, and local trees and bird droppings. If the sand will lead to him, this will be the greatest case, but so far, it is not a 100% proof to me.
2) now about Eurasians and everyone mixed. If we are the majority, we notice the part that doesn't look "like us" in others, it is an evolutionary trait. In the situation when we are a minority in a large group, then we pay attention to "unifying" traits in others, "what looks like us." Just a habit coming from tribal lives. Just to explain the point, if you are a European in Europe, a Eurasian person would look Asian to you. But trust me, the Japanese public of 2001 would have noticed precisely the opposite, the "distinguishing" part for them, i.e., European traits. Perhaps he is only Korean? Then he'll blend in more, but only because there are Koreans living in Japan.
(BTW, they say 98% Japanese is one ethnicity, but is it really so? Yatsuko had a face that stood out, beautiful, strong, and expressive, but I'd venture to guess that her and Mikio's ancestors were from different parts of Japan.)

 

[Incoherent]

RSBM

If he was as young as he appears to have been, I'd be quite surprised if he made any contingency plans for the possibility of injuring himself. If he arrived in the area by public transport, he may not have felt he had any choice other than to return by public transport. Hide his wounds the best he could and keep his head down.

Just as a tack on to this re: public transportation theory, this is what the closest train station to the Miyazawa house looks like on a Saturday morning when I was there last week:

VIDEO 1

VIDEO 2

It is also the station they were said to shop at the day of or before the murder - Chitose Karasuyama. It is a 15-20 minute walk away, at a brisk walk about 10, and there are also buses available to get you closer in a minute or so.

I can’t say for sure how busy it would have been back in 2000 but it is only 10 minutes from the centre of Tokyo. If arrived via train I think he could’ve been completely unnoticed. If he left via train, especially with his injury, it’s much more likely someone twigged him. But with the station being a relatively busy one… who knows.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Police advised to rethink motive and opportunity in unsolved Setagaya family murder case

The killer was believed to have entered through the upstairs bathroom window. After strangling Rei in his bed, police determined he used a fish knife he had brought with him to stab the other three family members to death.
Rather than flee under cover of darkness, the killer then inexplicably lingered at the crime scene well past sunrise. According to police, he surfed the web on Miyazawa's computer, raided the refrigerator for a snack and used the toilet, not bothering to flush afterward.
Based on evidence at the crime scene, the suspect was a young male in his late teens or early 20s, of slender build and medium height. He left behind his fingerprints, DNA, shoe prints, and personal items. Police were confident this wealth of forensic and material evidence would enable them to track down the culprit in short order.
The killer's DNA turned out to be particularly unusual as he appeared to have European ancestry on his mother's side. Other DNA markers suggested a possible link to either China or Korea. In the folds of a carrying pouch he left behind were grains of sand of a type not found in Japan.

To this day, the killer's motive remains elusive. Was it robbery? Investigators haven't ruled out that the killer might have stolen money from the Miyazawa home, but if so, the amount taken was not determined.
If the killer was economically deprived, perhaps some dispute over money with either Mikio or Yasuko Miyazawa may have moved him to seek revenge.

The Miyazawa home in Kami-Soshigaya, Motohashi pointed out, is not far from Seijo, a well-to-do residential area with many spacious homes. For this reason, investigators may have mistakenly assumed that since the victims' house was only average in appearance, it did not appear affluent enough to be targeted by a robber.
"But thieves," Motohashi contends, "prefer to target houses that are easy to break into, not necessarily those that appear wealthy."

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Miyazaki’s family. Source: Asahi newspaper.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Miyazawa’s house. Source: Asahi

 

[Dr. Snoop]

The perpetrator’s outfit. Source: Asahi

 

[fridaybaker]

Police advised to rethink motive and opportunity in unsolved Setagaya family murder case
View attachment 488465

I’d be careful about placing too much stock in much of the information out in the public domain. He actually didn’t likely stay well past dawn. And dispute over money? Certainly, it’s possible, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that, especially if the killer is, indeed, what much of the evidence points to- a teenager or very young adult.
It was pretty unlikely to be a robbery for so many reasons: He didn’t just grab a kitchen knife from the home. He came to kill it would seem. He also left money behind.

 

[fridaybaker]

View attachment 488468
Miyazaki’s family. Source: Asahi newspaper.

Heartbreaking.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Police advised to rethink motive and opportunity in unsolved Setagaya family murder case
View attachment 488465

I've written before about this article. Unfortunately, it's maybe one of the worst things out there I've read about this case. For one so short, it's totally laced with inaccuracies / assumptions based on misunderstandings. A less kind way of saying it: it's garbage. It basically boils down to, WRITER HAS OPINION. This is not news. Moreover, the opinions espoused are just bad IMO. I don't intend personal disrespect to Mr. Motohashi's but I can't find any other way of wording it.

To this day, the killer's motive remains elusive. Was it robbery? Investigators haven't ruled out that the killer might have stolen money from the Miyazawa home, but if so, the amount taken was not determined. Wrong. It has been determined. We know he took a certain amount but left a greater amount in the house. One of the many puzzles.

"Some have theorized that a person of foreign origin might have less compunction to killing members of a different racial or ethnic group, but unless more facts are known, such a theory can be no more than speculation." So, some people are small-minded racists? Again, this is not news. Nor is it relevant.

If the killer was economically deprived, perhaps some dispute over money with either Mikio or Yasuko Miyazawa may have moved him to seek revenge. Or maybe he didn't like their faces. Or people whose surnames start with M. This is a nothing. If he was economically deprived, how did he have a brand-new jacket, an expensive shirt, an expensive knife, French aftershave, and a full belly? Why he didn't take all the money and the valuables in the house?

"But thieves," Motohashi contends, "prefer to target houses that are easy to break into, not necessarily those that appear wealthy." What exactly was easy about the Miyazawa house for a robbery? Moreover, if it was a robbery, why did he enter at a time when the family were home? Why did he immediately murder a small, sleeping child? Why did he eat their ice cream and so on, so forth. Does the author know nothing about the case itself? Is he just riffing?

"Since the crime experts who analyze the Miyazawa case enjoy above-average economic status themselves, they may not be capable of fully grasping the psychology of a desperately needy person reacting on the spur of moment," Motohashi writes. With respect to Mr. Motohashi, I have personally met some of the people connected to this case. None of them were what I would describe as enjoying above-average economic status. Moreover, the idea that someone poor somehow exists on a different plane of desperation is frankly bordering on offensive. It also assumes that we know that the killer was either desperate, poor, or acting on the spur of the moment. We do not. It seems to me, if anyone may not be capable of fully grasping the realities of these murders, it is not the crime experts...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

View attachment 488470
Miyazawa’s house. Source: Asahi

Note the positioning of the car beneath Rei's balcony. The police have already taped up the side mirrors hoping for prints.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I’d be careful about placing too much stock in much of the information out in the public domain. He actually didn’t likely stay well past dawn. And dispute over money? Certainly, it’s possible, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that, especially if the killer is, indeed, what much of the evidence points to- a teenager or very young adult.
It was pretty unlikely to be a robbery for so many reasons: He didn’t just grab a kitchen knife from the home. He came to kill it would seem. He also left money behind.

Seconded.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Agree with most, but consider two things.

1) they also found very local, Miura beach sand, in his pockets, and local trees and bird droppings. If the sand will lead to him, this will be the greatest case, but so far, it is not a 100% proof to me.
2) now about Eurasians and everyone mixed. If we are the majority, we notice the part that doesn't look "like us" in others, it is an evolutionary trait. In the situation when we are a minority in a large group, then we pay attention to "unifying" traits in others, "what looks like us." Just a habit coming from tribal lives. Just to explain the point, if you are a European in Europe, a Eurasian person would look Asian to you. But trust me, the Japanese public of 2001 would have noticed precisely the opposite, the "distinguishing" part for them, i.e., European traits. Perhaps he is only Korean? Then he'll blend in more, but only because there are Koreans living in Japan.
(BTW, they say 98% Japanese is one ethnicity, but is it really so? Yatsuko had a face that stood out, beautiful, strong, and expressive, but I'd venture to guess that her and Mikio's ancestors were from different parts of Japan.)

Miura is on the other side of the peninsula to the Mabori Beach area (where Yokosuka naval base is). I think it's possible this may be the same sand we're talking about.

And yes, for sure Koreans and Japanese and so on have distinct features. But it's much easier to blend in with a low-brimmed hat and a puffer jacket walking in the dark as, say, a Korean-American, than for a Hungarian or Spaniard to do the same in Setagaya 23 years ago.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

I’d be careful about placing too much stock in much of the information out in the public domain. He actually didn’t likely stay well past dawn. And dispute over money? Certainly, it’s possible, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that, especially if the killer is, indeed, what much of the evidence points to- a teenager or very young adult.
It was pretty unlikely to be a robbery for so many reasons: He didn’t just grab a kitchen knife from the home. He came to kill it would seem. He also left money behind.

While the perpetrator's DNA was discovered on the clothing, it doesn't necessarily confirm ownership. It's plausible he had the clothes with him, touched them, but may not have been wearing them. The question arises – if he did wear them, did he possess spare attire for a change? This aspect leaves me puzzled. It appears the killer aimed to manipulate the investigation's direction, evident in the deliberate placement of Korean shoes. However, the wrapping of the knife suggests an alternative narrative; of course the knife might be stolen or borrowed. I don't see this scenario discussed here, hence more info posted.

There's no explicit mention of the exact amount of money taken from the scene. The presence of some money left behind doesn't negate the possibility that robbery could have been a motive. The perpetrator might have taken enough for personal use and intentionally left some behind, creating confusion for investigators. Drawing parallels with the Fukuoka family murder case illustrates how this tactic could be employed, emphasising the complexity of the Miyazawa case.

Various sources refer to Mr. Miyazawa differently, with some describing him as an office worker and others labelling him a businessman, but again, no clarity about the family members and their life.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Miura is on the other side of the peninsula to the Mabori Beach area (where Yokosuka naval base is). I think it's possible this may be the same sand we're talking about.
And yes, for sure Koreans and Japanese and so on have distinct features. But it's much easier to blend in with a low-brimmed hat and a puffer jacket walking in the dark as, say, a Korean-American, than for a Hungarian or Spaniard to do the same in Setagaya 23 years ago.

While much attention is directed towards the Korean vector, the Chinese fish factory angle remains overlooked. It's conceivable that a Chinese worker, in possession of Korean shoes and other items, strategically employed them to mislead the police. JMO.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

This probably can't be answered, but is there any chance the killer tried to get into other houses, maybe even An's house, and the Miyazawa's were just unlucky that he managed to get into theirs?

I've also been looking at the pictures of the house. Am I misinterpreting the images, or is the driveway/garage kind of in a pit that sits lower than the rest of the house? I ask because to me it looks like the balcony is higher, and possibly harder to reach, than it appears to be at first glance.

If the killer had climbed onto the car you would think there would be some evidence of that, but I'm not sure the TMPD has ever said anything about it? There are some objects near the garage which could have been used as a step, but it's hard to tell how solid they would be.

I've made this quick scribble to show what I mean about the garage "pit" being lower compared to the front door:

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Absolutely someone saw him at some point. RE: parking, we know that Mikio apparently had a go at folks parking too close to the house. And Yasuko complained of one particular car, apparently, parking too close to them in the days before the murders. This has never been ruled out, so far as I can see. Having been to that area many times, I'm not sure where they would be parking. My best guess would be the small field in front of the house. The earliest I was at the house was 2010. But it must have been close if Yasuko and Mikio are both noticing.

As for the POI, I just need a podcast platform to bite, give me the money, and I can investigate!

Do the police there know your thoughts on this POI? Just curious.

What can we do to help you get funding? I volunteer to help with anything I can do!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

While the perpetrator's DNA was discovered on the clothing, it doesn't necessarily confirm ownership. It's plausible he had the clothes with him, touched them, but may not have been wearing them. The question arises – if he did wear them, did he possess spare attire for a change? This aspect leaves me puzzled. It appears the killer aimed to manipulate the investigation's direction, evident in the deliberate placement of Korean shoes. However, the wrapping of the knife suggests an alternative narrative; of course the knife might be stolen or borrowed. I don't see this scenario discussed here, hence more info posted.

There's no explicit mention of the exact amount of money taken from the scene. The presence of some money left behind doesn't negate the possibility that robbery could have been a motive. The perpetrator might have taken enough for personal use and intentionally left some behind, creating confusion for investigators. Drawing parallels with the Fukuoka family murder case illustrates how this tactic could be employed, emphasising the complexity of the Miyazawa case.

Various sources refer to Mr. Miyazawa differently, with some describing him as an office worker and others labelling him a businessman, but again, no clarity about the family members and their life.

While the perpetrator's DNA was discovered on the clothing, it doesn't necessarily confirm ownership. It's plausible he had the clothes with him, touched them, but may not have been wearing them. Respectfully, I do not find that plausible. The clothes were soaked in the family's blood and they had his DNA on them. Sure, this case is paradoxical in many ways but in this case I think 2+2=4. They were his clothes. Did he leave receipts for them? No, obviously not. Is it reasonable to conclude he was wearing his own clothes? Obviously, yes. While it does not 10,000% rule out the oblique possibility he's wearing someone else's clothing, I find the concept baseless. If he's trying to somehow mislead the investigators, how is he achieving this while leaving fingerprints, saliva, hair, faeces, blood, and the murder weapons? And it does not look like he bought a change of clothes with him seeing as he stole Mikio's on the way out of the house.

It appears the killer aimed to manipulate the investigation's direction, evident in the deliberate placement of Korean shoes. Based on what, exactly? Moreover, the shoes were not Korean. Merely available in Korea. This is discussed at length in the first thread on this case (50+ pages). Slazenger is a UK brand and the availability of this model globally remains unconfirmed. Slazenger declined to speak with me during the making of FACELESS. I would argue that the only thing we can reasonably assume the killer did to manipulate the investigation is to steal that money.

There's no explicit mention of the exact amount of money taken from the scene. Respectfully, there IS explicit mention of the killer taking the amount of money from the house. <modsnip: not an approved source> JPY 150k, I believe was the sum left behind. I don't have the exact number to hand but I can categorically tell you based on first-hand conversation with investigators that the killer left more than he took, including valuables and bank cards.

However, the wrapping of the knife suggests an alternative narrative; of course the knife might be stolen or borrowed. I don't see this scenario discussed here, hence more info posted. Why does it suggest that? Based on what? Why does it not simply suggest he didn't want to cut himself?

Various sources refer to Mr. Miyazawa differently, with some describing him as an office worker and others labelling him a businessman, but again, no clarity about the family members and their life. He was an office worker. When you say no clarity about them, what exactly do you mean? I interviewed his mother at length and she spoke about exactly what kind of man he was.

@Dr. Snoop , have you read the entirety of the 50+ pages of the first thread on this case? Have you listened to FACELESS If not, I think you would find both or either helpful. Many of the articles, for instance, that you're posting here, have already been posted a few years ago.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

While much attention is directed towards the Korean vector, the Chinese fish factory angle remains overlooked. It's conceivable that a Chinese worker, in possession of Korean shoes and other items, strategically employed them to mislead the police. JMO.

Yes, for sure, definitely conceivable. My own theory goes in a different direction, as you know. But I don't discount this. However, I can assure you that it has not been overlooked by the TMPD. They actively investigated this possibility. It came to nothing. Though again, the shoes weren't Korean, and the idea that he's employing any kind of strategy to mislead investigators while at the same time leading what they referred to as a "treasure trove" of evidence seems, kindly, at odds.