Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[BatataPoha]

If I recall correctly… the house next door had the two parents, the grandma and the son, and the house directly opposite was also occupied too. And only one bang through the entire thing?

That’s… quite something.

It’s possible to sleep through all the noise if the TV is on or you’ve taken medicine for sleep or something I guess? Astounding nothing else was apparently heard though I’ve gotta say.

Both the lack of sound production or the apparent lack of sound transmission give rise to more threads for assumption in my view.

 

[Charlot123]

Do you mean this in the case of foreigners going to Japan? Since 2007 (I think it was!) all visitors and those going to Japan to work or study, etc, are fingerprinted at immigration before being allowed to pass through on the first time they enter the country.
Or do you mean this in another scenario?

Edit: I believe their photograph is taken too.

Japan expands its foreign worker visa programme for the first time since inception

The Japanese government has expanded the skilled worker visa program to address labor shortages by admitting up to 820,000 foreigners in various sectors.

m.economictimes.com

Japan is becoming an old society. So their migrants ratio is going to increase. The issue, as everywhere, will be economic disparity, and with this, property crime. I foresee it shaking their DNA laws.

 

[Charlot123]

Do CIA operatives plant the American flag after a covert operation? Or drop a Nike sneaker haul? No.

It is very likely the killer always meant to dispose off his clothes, hence the ease with which he left them behind knowing it cannot possibly be traced back to him. There is a strong possibility that he was dressing up to allay suspicions, instead of wearing his regular clothes.

4) Food choice is again a weird argument. I don’t think you can get any meaningful insight from one single meal. Even tourists go to other countries and try the local cuisine, and Americans regularly eat foods of all ethnicities even in their home countries. This argument isn’t very meaningful.

I should add that I am quite open to the killer being a random Japanese guy. Nothing ties this to a foreigner with any clear certainty. But your points, to me atleast, don’t justify that hypothesis

Respectfully, I would expect CIA operatives to flush after themselves and not leave their DNA around the house.

Most of this is generalization, but I would still state some obvious fallacies here.

1) No clear indication the killer speaks Japanese.

2) The house is not on some off the beaten path.

3) This crime is a planned kill. How long it was planned for, we don’t know. But no one randomly comes with that attire and a knife and two hankies without the intention to kill. So I dunno why anyone would assume the clothes are the killer’s regular clothes and not some red herring?

I don’t know about Japanese
Agree with the beaten path
I don’t know about the planned kill. It seems that the killer knew something about the family, true.
Sometimes I wonder if the person who came was suicidal and planned to kill himself in front of the family. Mentally, I see him walk in through the front door and putting on slippers because he is Japanese. But…something goes differently, he leaves (very angry), waits, gets into the house via the bathroom window, annihilates the family and then stays because if he is caught in the house, he still has the knife to kill himself. Then the emotional state is gone, and he leaves.

By the way, what happened to the second knife, does anyone know? Was it found in the house, or disappeared? If it was in the house, did he take a new knife with him?

 

[FlowersInBloom]

Respectfully, I would expect CIA operatives to flush after themselves and not leave their DNA around the house.



I don’t know about Japanese
Agree with the beaten path
I don’t know about the planned kill. It seems that the killer knew something about the family, true.
Sometimes I wonder if the person who came was suicidal and planned to kill himself in front of the family. Mentally, I see him walk in through the front door and putting on slippers because he is Japanese. But…something goes differently, he leaves (very angry), waits, gets into the house via the bathroom window, annihilates the family and then stays because if he is caught in the house, he still has the knife to kill himself. Then the emotional state is gone, and he leaves.

By the way, what happened to the second knife, does anyone know? Was it found in the house, or disappeared? If it was in the house, did he take a new knife with him?

In this case we should assume Mikio knew his family’s killer then, since he walked through the front door…?

December 30th 2000 was a Saturday and during the end of year holiday period… and it was said that Rei, Niina, and Yasuko were all in bed. Niina apparently had a cold as they had bought medicine that day and she was sleeping in the parent’s bed with her mother.

At 11pm on a Saturday who is Mikio willing to let inside his house unless he knows them personally, and in that case… the TMPD would’ve found him through connections surely? Be it a work colleague or acquaintance it is likely he’d be found right?
I find it highly unlikely Mikio is letting a stranger through the front door under these circumstances and at that time of night… especially since he had trouble with people around his house as reported.

I don’t think the killer went through the front door… and I don’t think they knew their killer, but the killer had crossed paths with them or seen them at some point. But I do think it’s possible he could have left through the front door.

About the knives from what I understand both were found in the kitchen.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

Japan expands its foreign worker visa programme for the first time since inception

The Japanese government has expanded the skilled worker visa program to address labor shortages by admitting up to 820,000 foreigners in various sectors.

m.economictimes.com

Japan is becoming an old society. So their migrants ratio is going to increase. The issue, as everywhere, will be economic disparity, and with this, property crime. I foresee it shaking their DNA laws.

I don’t understand all the ins and outs of it but from what I’ve read from Faceless’s posts there has been a push from Setagaya city about the current DNA laws to be overturned for the sake of resolving this case…

Maybe it will happen sooner? After all the statute of limitations in Japan was abolished due to this case too…

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t understand all the ins and outs of it but from what I’ve read from Faceless’s posts there has been a push from Setagaya city about the current DNA laws to be overturned for the sake of resolving this case…

Maybe it will happen sooner? After all the statute of limitations in Japan was abolished due to this case too…

One hopes...

 

[Charlot123]

In this case we should assume Mikio knew his family’s killer then, since he walked through the front door…?

December 30th 2000 was a Saturday and during the end of year holiday period… and it was said that Rei, Niina, and Yasuko were all in bed. Niina apparently had a cold as they had bought medicine that day and she was sleeping in the parent’s bed with her mother.

At 11pm on a Saturday who is Mikio willing to let inside his house unless he knows them personally, and in that case… the TMPD would’ve found him through connections surely? Be it a work colleague or acquaintance it is likely he’d be found right?
I find it highly unlikely Mikio is letting a stranger through the front door under these circumstances and at that time of night… especially since he had trouble with people around his house as reported.

I don’t think the killer went through the front door… and I don’t think they knew their killer, but the killer had crossed paths with them or seen them at some point. But I do think it’s possible he could have left through the front door.

About the knives from what I understand both were found in the kitchen.

I don't think it was 11 pm. The intercom buzz that someone in the neighborhood heard was earlier, 8:30 or so? This is why I think the perpetrator was known, but not especially well.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

I don't think it was 11 pm. The intercom buzz that someone in the neighborhood heard was earlier, 8:30 or so? This is why I think the perpetrator was known, but not especially well.

At that time I believe Niina wasn’t in the house because she was watching a TV show at her grandma’s side of the house until around 9:30pm… and then she came back over once it had finished. If the grandma had taken her back to her side of the house she would’ve seen someone inside if he was there by that point, or perhaps heard him as Niina went between doors.

I may be misremembering apologies I can’t find the exact details on that… but the reason I remember it is because the doorbell or intercom noise had been mentioned and then retracted as a mistake and it made me think that at that time Niina wasn’t there.

Anyone who has the details about that please correct me if I’m wrong!

 

[Charlot123]

At that time I believe Niina wasn’t in the house because she was watching a TV show at her grandma’s side of the house until around 9:30pm… and then she came back over once it had finished. If the grandma had taken her back to her side of the house she would’ve seen someone inside if he was there by that point, or perhaps heard him as Niina went between doors.

I may be misremembering apologies I can’t find the exact details on that… but the reason I remember it is because the doorbell or intercom noise had been mentioned and then retracted as a mistake and it made me think that at that time Niina wasn’t there.

Anyone who has the details about that please correct me if I’m wrong!

From what I have read, the intercom door buzzed and one witness heard it, but no one in the neighbors house confirmed it. I am not sure the witness was from the sister's house, just someone living nearby.

 

[Charlot123]

December 30th 2000 was a Saturday and during the end of year holiday period… and it was said that Rei, Niina, and Yasuko were all in bed. Niina apparently had a cold as they had bought medicine that day and she was sleeping in the parent’s bed with her mother.

I just remembered an important thing. Co-sleeping which is the norm in Japan.

Cosleeping Around The World - The Natural Child Project

Maybe Niina was always in parents' bed, if it is the cultural norm?

Or, the opposite could have been true, the room where Rei used to sleep that night, was usually Niina's one?

Would it be possible that the perpetrator expected it to be Niina's room, and it was Rei there, and that's what went astray?

I don't remember the second child room on that floor, and tbh, having read about co-sleeping practice in Japan eons ago, I assumed Niina always slept upstairs...but what if they alternated, or indeed, the killer didn't know whose bedroom it was?

ETA: usually it would be expected that the younger kid may be cosleeping, right? But Rei had some developmental issues, perhaps he had enuresis, too. Then a younger boy sleeping alone would be expected...but the perpetrator might have not known it. He attacked women way worse...

 

[FlowersInBloom]

I just remembered an important thing. Co-sleeping which is the norm in Japan.

Cosleeping Around The World - The Natural Child Project

Maybe Niina was always in parents' bed, if it is the cultural norm?

Or, the opposite could have been true, the room where Rei used to sleep that night, was usually Niina's one?

Would it be possible that the perpetrator expected it to be Niina's room, and it was Rei there, and that's what went astray?

I don't remember the second child room on that floor, and tbh, having read about co-sleeping practice in Japan eons ago, I assumed Niina always slept upstairs...but what if they alternated, or indeed, the killer didn't know whose bedroom it was?

ETA: usually it would be expected that the younger kid may be cosleeping, right? But Rei had some developmental issues, perhaps he had enuresis, too. Then a younger boy sleeping alone would be expected...but the perpetrator might have not known it. He attacked women way worse...

I had always assumed due to the timeline of events on that day that because the family had bought medicine that it was for Niina’s cold and that was why she was sleeping with her mother… it was definitely mentioned that Niina was a bit unwell.

The kid’s room had a bunk bed so I assumed both of them shared the room, and it also had Niina’s piano in it which she played and practiced on. I don’t believe Rei played that piano… could be wrong as children in Japan learn how to play instruments from very young ages.

I suppose it could be so that if the killer did know of the family and Rei’s conditions, or had seen the house before in some way, that he may think that Niina could be in that bedroom either with Rei or by herself…

Are you thinking that perhaps the killer had an intended target?

 

[FlowersInBloom]

From what I have read, the intercom door buzzed and one witness heard it, but no one in the neighbors house confirmed it. I am not sure the witness was from the sister's house, just someone living nearby.

Ah I see… I’m not 100% on the intercom or doorbell situation, and who said or heard or denied hearing what exactly.

 

[Charlot123]

I had always assumed due to the timeline of events on that day that because the family had bought medicine that it was for Niina’s cold and that was why she was sleeping with her mother… it was definitely mentioned that Niina was a bit unwell.

The kid’s room had a bunk bed so I assumed both of them shared the room, and it also had Niina’s piano in it which she played and practiced on. I don’t believe Rei played that piano… could be wrong as children in Japan learn how to play instruments from very young ages.

I suppose it could be so that if the killer did know of the family and Rei’s conditions, or had seen the house before in some way, that he may think that Niina could be in that bedroom either with Rei or by herself…

Are you thinking that perhaps the killer had an intended target?

It just came to my mind. Some people posted their idea that it could have been Rei, but Rei was killed rather "mercifully". Niina was what we call "a tween", a pre-teen. Perhaps it was meant to be an abduction, or a SA? Niina not being there changed everything, and this very fact could have made him frustrated and livid. Then lots of his behaviors afterwards could be explained. He walks around the house, familiarizing himself with his "girlfriend that didn't happen". Jack Patterson and Jaymie Closs type, only he didn't have a gun and Yasuko was fighting like a tigress. Could have been...

 

[FlowersInBloom]

It just came to my mind. Some people posted their idea that it could have been Rei, but Rei was killed rather "mercifully". Niina was what we call "a tween", a pre-teen. Perhaps it was meant to be an abduction, or a SA? Niina not being there changed everything, and this very fact could have made him frustrated and livid. Then lots of his behaviors afterwards could be explained. He walks around the house, familiarizing himself with his "girlfriend that didn't happen". Jack Patterson and Jaymie Closs type, only he didn't have a gun and Yasuko was fighting like a tigress. Could have been...

This situation unbearable to think about. I am very glad, at the least, that there were no reports of that kind of thing against the kids…

But just on ages here, I have noticed that a lot of images used of both Rei and Niina when you read about the case are of them as very young children…
I managed to find the Twitter (that god awful site again…) of Yasuko’s sister Ann, who had more up to date photos of them. You can see that Rei was almost as tall as his sister despite being 2 years younger… it also makes me think how much more determination the killer would have had to strangle him to death given that he doesn’t exactly seem to be a small kid… it would’ve taken a huge amount of effort I feel…

 

[Charlot123]

This situation unbearable to think about. I am very glad, at the least, that there were no reports of that kind of thing against the kids…

But just on ages here, I have noticed that a lot of images used of both Rei and Niina when you read about the case are of them as very young children…
I managed to find the Twitter (that god awful site again…) of Yasuko’s sister Ann, who had more up to date photos of them. You can see that Rei was almost as tall as his sister despite being 2 years younger… it also makes me think how much more determination the killer would have had to strangle him to death given that he doesn’t exactly seem to be a small kid… it would’ve taken a huge amount of effort I feel…

View attachment 518001

It is horrible, haven't we seen such perpetrators? They often fly under the radar because they are so nondescript. Remember James Patterson? He looked so meek in court. Yet, he saw Jaymie at the bus stop, decided that she'd be his GF, then, broke into her house, killed her parents and abducted her. And, he was living in the vicinity, and no one paid attention to him.

Now, I don't know what exactly type of disability Rei had, but some forms of what I am thinking about are accompanied by rather soft muscles. So Rei could have been not small, but not too strong. ((

ETA: I had to re-read about Jake Patterson and JC's case. For the first time, I paid attention to the fact that he tried abduction several times and then I remembered the car Yasuko was complaining about, the one she saw next to their house. Also, in JC's case, the difference between JP and JC was 7 years. She seemed to be more mature than him; it seems he abducted her as a GF but also a playmate. If the same principle is applicable to Niina and the perp, he should have been around 16, and not very mature.

Kidnapping of Jayme Closs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Charlot123]

Also, I wanted to add: if it was an initially sexually motivated crime with an intended target, then - I remembered several of our US abductors. Of them, only one was handsome, had beautiful girlfriends and was more or less social. I suspect he had the same traits as the rest, but masked by obvious bipolarity.
The rest...Patterson is rather typical. I remember the description of @Faceless's poi, and that guy was social and had a GF...not a very characteristic type for this crime, unless he was very bipolar. Rather, what students said about JP, "he just was there", would apply here. JP was rather smart, but achieved nothing and worked one day in his life. I also think that the perp, give or take, had to amble around the park at daytime, maybe to hear Niina playing, and the skaters were interviewed, they were ruled out, but they probably also didn't notice anyone, I assume. IMHO, this guy really has to be as average as they come. Probably, he attended Yasuko's school, but not for too long and was barely remembered. Comfort food fits. Being from a broken family, the only, or the youngest, child, fits.

Now I am wondering if anything belonging to Niina had disappeared - photos, or maybe watch? Something that may be not instantly noticeable, and photos often have copies...

 

[Kittybunny]

On this point here about his clothing… if the killer were to be from the base and the murder was pre-meditated, wearing any single item of clothing bought on base that could link back there would have him sussed out in a hot minute. I like to think the killer thought about this… and planned his outfit accordingly. I agree here the outfit looks very Japanese to me too though I’m no expert. Just from what I’ve seen in pictures and videos.

Maybe one of the reasons he felt he could leave almost his entire outfit behind was that it had no link to his life on the base and were just regular clothes found out in Japan and Tokyo?
It did strike me as weird he’d leave his bag behind too… clothing covered in blood, sure, dump that and change… but the bag too? Why? I feel like he had some confidence there at least a little bit…

JMO on the foreign male theory.

Until it was laid out so explicitly, I hadn’t realized how much of his clothing and items the killer left behind. I agree with you that there are a lot of implications and questions this raises, as the ones you point out above.

Did the killer plan to leave his outfit behind?

Did the killer choose an outfit that was what he would normally wear, or did he choose clothes that were very different than what he normally wore?

If he did plan to leave the clothes behind, is this because he knew he couldn’t risk going back with bloody clothing because he lived with a family or someone that did his laundry?

What did he do with the sweater/shirt he stole from Mikio? I assume that has never been found.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

Until it was laid out so explicitly, I hadn’t realized how much of his clothing and items the killer left behind. I agree with you that there are a lot of implications and questions this raises, as the ones you point out above.

Did the killer plan to leave his outfit behind?

Did the killer choose an outfit that was what he would normally wear, or did he choose clothes that were very different than what he normally wore?

If he did plan to leave the clothes behind, is this because he knew he couldn’t risk going back with bloody clothing because he lived with a family or someone that did his laundry?

What did he do with the sweater/shirt he stole from Mikio? I assume that has never been found.

Good points here Kitty
From my understanding he basically left everything behind besides his underwear, pants, and sneakers…

I closely align with the pre-meditated foreign male angle… so IMO he went into it using clothing that was not typical of his style and more generic. Essentially an outfit built up of items he possessed but didn’t reflect the style of who he was. Perhaps maybe besides the sneakers…

I don’t think he necessarily went into it knowing he’d need to strip off his entire outfit, but did go into it knowing that if he had to it would leave the least possible link to who he was… as it relates to clothing style and where it was bought. Of course this could be a complete overreach on my part, but I do not think he was stupid or went into this without a plan of some sort…

I think he did indeed need to go back to a place that someone would notice the state of his clothing and raise alarm bells. If he lived locally why would he need to dump the entire outfit? He could run away under cover of darkness and not leave the treasure trove of evidence behind… but the fact is he left it all behind including his bag! And even the bucket hat!

As far as I know the sweater he stole from Mikio has never been seen nor recovered… and he left that house looking completely different than he did going to it.

 

[Cryptic]

Double post

 

[Cryptic]

1) No clear indication the killer speaks Japanese.

Evidently, the killer purchased a knife before the attack in which the vendor did not notice any language limitations. Granted, it could have been a limited exchange. But, the killer evidently also accessed the victim's computer- presumably the computer used Japanese fonts. Thus, the ability to read Japanese.

2) The house is not on some off the beaten path.

Depends on what you define as "off the beaten path". It also depends on how familiar you are with your suspects. For a substantial number of (but not all) US servicemen anything outside of the popular tourism areas and / or entertainment districts is very much "off the beaten path".

3) This crime is a planned kill. How long it was planned for, we don’t know. But no one randomly comes with that attire and a knife and two hankies without the intention to kill. So I dunno why anyone would assume the clothes are the killer’s regular clothes and not some red herring?

Do CIA operatives plant the American flag after a covert operation? Or drop a Nike sneaker haul? No.

Purported CIA techniques and disguises? I am going with Occam's razor: The clothes he wore represent his daily clothes. Fantasy spy notions and disguises dont strike me as very likely.

4) Food choice is again a weird argument. I don’t think you can get any meaningful insight from one single meal. Even tourists go to other countries and try the local cuisine, and Americans regularly eat foods of all ethnicities even in their home countries. This argument isn’t very meaningful.

The food argument is a component of a totality. And.... your use of absolute language ("Americans") is not accurate. "some" Americans regularly eat a variety of ethnic foods. Others, however, do not. Some American criminals would select ethnic foods from a victim's kitchen. Others, however, would not.