Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[MesquiteO21]

This is what I am wondering about.

I always thought that the perpetrator:
1) either had a potential target
2) or, confused the houses
3) or maybe, it was out of rage but somehow, he needed to know/observe the family

What if the situation indeed includes two people?

I don't know about the base, I think it is a red herring because this information has appeared recently, but what if there indeed were two people:

- one watched the house or the inhabitants, or, like @Sor Juana mentioned, all you need is to have minimal information about the inhabitants' habits

Or, there is a lot of information one can get from the park if one merges in with the observers, and really, really, doesn't stand out at all? A mom with kids, or an old guy, anyone.

To get into the house, one has to be slim and lithe and fit
To kill the inhabitants, rather trained (or having the habits of the killer - maybe he enjoys it?)

But what really surprises me is as if the goals differ:

1) - to kill four people. That's our typical case, a SK, a sadist, a torturer... whoever. Half of our traits are about this case

2) the second part is about searching for something. That something is small and has value. It is difficult to trace.

I don't know what it could be. An family heirloom - an award from WWII times? Can be sold on any Axis forum. Or, a piece of jewelry. A jade bracelet now costs a premium, for example. Or, good Japanese pearls? Or, even an old sketch of a Japanese master?

I honestly don't know how and where the TMPD lifted the fingerprints, but I wonder if they, too, could be planted intentionally? The DNA is probably real, because at that time, the murderer could not know the future value of the DNA. The "whorls" might have no value.

I wonder if there was a second person, a "spotter" or a "tipster" that provided the information. The killing was really, to leave no traces.

Why didn't he repeat the murders? Well, perhaps there is no sense in it because they became better at stealing? Nowadays, there is more information online.

I wonder what exactly was taken or what did the pattern of search hinted at? Maybe it is in someone's collection now? Also, what expensive Japanese trinkets could be sold on Ebay soon after?

my only problem with the second perp theory is that police haven't indicated they suspect that...unless that would be something they are keeping secret for some reason? reports seem to indicate the DNA found in the house only belonged to one perp. But like you mentioned maybe there was a "spotter" and police aren't even aware there was another person involved.

from what i've found, some money was taken (not all i don't think?) but i haven't seen anything about whether objects were missing. papers were found strewn about so it kind of reads to me like a fake/staged robbery.

i just can't shake the feeling that Rei being killed first and with a different method is significant and probably the key. The most straightforward, logical, Occam's Razor meaning of that, to me, is that he was the target probably for a kidnapping/abduction and it went awry. Police suspect there was a scuffle between Rei and the perp and that's what caused Mikio to come up the stairs. But if the perp entered Rei's room with the intent to just kill him off the bat, i'm confident he'd be able to very quickly and easily incapacitate an unsuspecting child and there wouldn't have been much of a struggle. But if he wanted to take Rei alive, Rei would have the chance to struggle and fight. JMO.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

my only problem with the second perp theory is that police haven't indicated they suspect that...unless that would be something they are keeping secret for some reason? reports seem to indicate the DNA found in the house only belonged to one perp. But like you mentioned maybe there was a "spotter" and police aren't even aware there was another person involved.

from what i've found, some money was taken (not all i don't think?) but i haven't seen anything about whether objects were missing. papers were found strewn about so it kind of reads to me like a fake/staged robbery.

i just can't shake the feeling that Rei being killed first and with a different method is significant and probably the key. The most straightforward, logical, Occam's Razor meaning of that, to me, is that he was the target probably for a kidnapping/abduction and it went awry. Police suspect there was a scuffle between Rei and the perp and that's what caused Mikio to come up the stairs. But if the perp entered Rei's room with the intent to just kill him off the bat, i'm confident he'd be able to very quickly and easily incapacitate an unsuspecting child and there wouldn't have been much of a struggle. But if he wanted to take Rei alive, Rei would have the chance to struggle and fight. JMO.

Yes I agree here that the TMPD likely know much, much more than the info they release… Faceless also says many conversations happened between him and the former chief “off record” so I don’t believe they’ve released absolutely everything… perhaps they have answers to many questions we ask here but for some reason they don’t release the info.
The balcony for example is always talked about but zero reports publicly, however it is such an obvious thing to check I would be very shocked if the TMPD didn’t. Yet they don’t talk about that. Could mean nothing could mean something.
Any ideas?

As for Rei… the killer came in with a knife so had the intent to use it, so my thinking the strangulation was because he was a helpless child sleeping and to keep the element of surprise longer.
However… while it doesn’t take a whole lot to make someone pass out by choking it does take a while to actually kill them. For Rei to actually die I believe the constant pressure would have had to have been more than a few minutes. During that time I’m assuming Rei would have thrashed about and kicked. Those bunk beds were child sized and small and the walls wooden… a good kick to the wall could’ve alerted Mikio to something…

So I wonder here if the killer really just wanted to keep the element of surprise as long as possible rather than going in with stabbing right away…

Any thoughts appreciated here…

 

[Sor Juana]

I wonder if TMPD looked at all thrift stores where they sold these bags. Maybe the owner knows something. Perhaps Mikio or more likely, Yasuko asked him to appraise something bought elsewhere.

RSBM. Such bags were on sale at discount stores across Kanto from 1995 to 1999. I'm not sure that thrift stores actually resell cheap items. My impression has been that they resell used items that are of reasonable quality, although anything is possible, of course.

 

[Sor Juana]

I spoke with a good friend who's a former high school wrestling coach. When I asked him if a fairly skilled wrestler could subdue 4 slightly built people, his reply was "Easily. They could probably take down 4 people built like you." I'm average build.

I'm not saying the killer is neccessarily a wrestler. Just saying with the right skills and mindset, it's definitely possible. As a grown man, I wouldn't stand a chance against a well built teenager. We believe the POI was well built and athletic to be able to climb through the rear window, as commonly suspected.

Per Wikipedia doesn't even require great physical strength:

Blood chokes (or carotid restraints / sleeper holds) are a form of strangulation that compress one or both carotid arteries and/or the jugular veins without compressing the airway, hence causing cerebral ischemia and a temporary hypoxic condition in the brain. A well-applied blood choke may lead to unconsciousness in 10–20 seconds. Injury or death is plausible if the arteries remain constricted for several minutes or more.Compared to strangulation with the hands, properly applied blood chokes require little physical strength.

The killer ultimately opted for a knife, causing considerable mess and noise. According to reports, the cuts made were primarily vertical, running from top to bottom, and they were standing out amongst other cuts. This technique using a thin sashimi knife aimed at the head (face) and continuing downward, contrasts with the targeting of carotids and other arteries (by combat knife) typically taught in the military. It reflects a method distinct to certain Asian martial arts schools, discernible enough to distinguish it from random stabbing wounds.

My point is, the killer likely possessed training in martial arts rather than disciplines like judo, sumo, or jiu-jitsu. If proficient in judo, he would have likely executed his actions silently. However, his skills (not impressive though) suggest a different expertise. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Yes I agree here that the TMPD likely know much, much more than the info they release… Faceless also says many conversations happened between him and the former chief “off record” so I don’t believe they’ve released absolutely everything… perhaps they have answers to many questions we ask here but for some reason they don’t release the info.
The balcony for example is always talked about but zero reports publicly, however it is such an obvious thing to check I would be very shocked if the TMPD didn’t. Yet they don’t talk about that. Could mean nothing could mean something.
Any ideas?

As for Rei… the killer came in with a knife so had the intent to use it, so my thinking the strangulation was because he was a helpless child sleeping and to keep the element of surprise longer.
However… while it doesn’t take a whole lot to make someone pass out by choking it does take a while to actually kill them. For Rei to actually die I believe the constant pressure would have had to have been more than a few minutes. During that time I’m assuming Rei would have thrashed about and kicked. Those bunk beds were child sized and small and the walls wooden… a good kick to the wall could’ve alerted Mikio to something…

So I wonder here if the killer really just wanted to keep the element of surprise as long as possible rather than going in with stabbing right away…

Any thoughts appreciated here…

I would like to know if, the way Mikio was sitting, the light in the first floor computer area could even be seen from the outside? Or, if there even was the light, as some people can browse sites in the darkness? But could the light in PC room, be even seen from either the front of the house of from the back?

At the front, there was a unparked car. Theoretically, from the top of the car, to the balcony and inside could be the easy way in.

JMO, the attack was organized from the side where the light in PC room was not seen. What the murderer sees, if he observes the house, is the light in the attic that goes off (if Niina was not feeling well, Yasuko probably took her upstairs, gave her the medication and switched off the light.)

If I am not mistaken, the PC room is nothing but a tiny nook in the middle of the first floor. With a tiny source of light, if that. The murderer outside would not see Mikio and assume that whatever tiny bit of linght was there, was coming from the screen of the monitor.

So the way it might have looked for the perpetrator, the light was off in the house. It the intruder knew that Niina was upstairs and Rei, in his bed alone, and then the target was Rei (possible, for mere abduction). If he didn’t know that Niina was upstairs, then she was the target, and it seems more likely.

I don’t know how dark the kids’ room was. Could the perpetrator not notice that there was one kid in the room instead of two? If there is even a remote possibility of this scenario, maybe, he planned to quietly kill Rei first (for Rei not to wake up) and assault Niina?

Niina was a “off-factor” that night. I try to proceed from there.

JMO - the murderer is unaware that Mikio was in the PC room, attacked Rei with whatever plan, then Mikio was alerted and went to look at Rei. In this case, the murderer still could kill him Mikio quietly, by attacking from the back (choking and cutting? I don’t know how Mikio was killed). Very little sound at this point.

Now, another unusual fact is Niina’s medication. Was it a cough syrup? An antihistamine drug? Something that makes one sleepy, perhaps.

If so, then there could be less noise than expected: Niina could be asleep, and Yasuko, sleepy, too (could she have taken a bit of the same medication for prevention?)

Then, the thud of the ladder could be the murderer going upstairs?

We don’t know during what assault he cut himself. I wonder if Yasuko and Niina were so dazed that they didn’t act quick, didn’t yell or run or called the police. But the kid’s illness could have changed everything.

So: the target could have been Rei, and the mistake, that the perpetrator assumed Mikio was asleep. The attack on Mikio woke up Yasuko, she and Niina went down the stairs, to protect dad, and the rest happened spontaneously.

Or, the attack could have been on Niina, only on realizing that Niina was upstairs, not in Rei’s room, he pulled the ladder to go to the attic.

One of the two kids, and maybe he didn’t plan to kill them initially?

There is, indeed, some “asymmetry” in the viciousness of the attack. Either the murderer, indeed, didn’t like women, or, on the contrary, the anger with which he attacked Niina and Yasuko was the substitution of the SA.

I am assuming that for Rei, he didn’t need to get upstairs.

 

[marv hucker]

Hello! My first post here so I apologize if I post anything obtuse/unacceptable. I've been really interested in this case and have been following it for quite a while. Reading all the threads on this site gave me a lot of information. I really appreciate everyone's amazing commentary, information, and hard work!

I understand it's already been pointed out, however I will say as someone interested in archaeogenetics... haplogroups are not an accurate way to identify someone's genetic identity at all. It simply indicates a certain ancestor in your genetic line existed once upon a time and passed down that haplogroup to you. I'm of Asian descent, all my relatives are Asian, my genetic line is essentially Asian for hundreds and hundreds of years (which can be proven) yet my haplogroups are both considered 'European', e.g. more commonly found in European people.

With that being said, I will say that the killer's paternal haplogroup, O-M122, is decidedly East Asian in origin. It's most commonly found in the Chinese... which is odd, considering the research given to us by those associated with the case said it was most commonly found amongst Koreans. I just want to mention that the modern Japanese genetic cluster is said to be the most similar with the Korean one; in a haplotype-based study, the Japanese cluster was found to share 87–94% of its genetic components with the Korean cluster, compared with a Han Chinese result of only 0–8%. A lot of Japanese who have performed genetic tests from major companies get confused when their DNA comes back with a large proportion of Korean.

I'm not really too fussed about the maternal haplogroup (H15) of the killer... it just means that somewhere in his genetic line there is a woman that introduced this haplogroup into his maternal line. I did some research as well and whilst it's true that this maternal haplogroup is commonly found amongst populations in European countries, Central Asia, and some Middle Eastern countries, some individuals from China have also reported carrying this haplogroup. Again, we also don't know the specific subclade of the killer.

I do think obtaining DNA samples and running them through a genetic testing software would be extremely helpful. I know this cannot be done... as of right now. It may not give us the exact identity of the killer but it would be beneficial in understanding who his relatives/ancestors are. For example, relatives possessing Japanese surnames vs. foreign surnames.

I cannot really speculate if the killer is mixed race or not, as many people believe, but I won't say it's impossible. What I can say is that the killer has an East Asian father and he also likely has a very East Asian appearance. I actually looked into the Yokota yearbook archives that were posted a few pages back and tried to find possible clues. Some people on here have said they found things that were very interesting. I frankly couldn't. I was looking for a male with an East Asian surname (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc), with a very East Asian appearance. Whilst some fit the mark, their hobbies/interests threw me off. I am definitely curious about the POI everyone is alluding to, but I understand the hush-hush nature and not wanting to throw anyone under the bus, so to speak.

Anyway, here's to hoping we only get more helpful clues, hints, leads, and most importantly a concrete answer eventually. ☺

Re- the haplogroup stuff.
Could / would it be a case of science (and datasets) advancing since some of these facts were publicised?