Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

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The TMPD not investigating YAFB over this 23 year old case at all says more to me than if they had…
If as stated above they are able to easily get access or permission to do so, why would they not even just on the off chance they could find something? Nic has said that this angle and the base have not been investigated or ruled out, so my question here is: are the TMPD deliberately not doing so? Are they avoiding it?

It seems more likely to me there is a reason they are not investigating YAFB, and that reason isn’t because it’s been ruled out and there’s nothing to see there… I agree with others that there is possibly something else behind it. JMO.
 
Actually there's currently a huge news story in Japan about the police covering up or refusing to pursue crimes committed by American servicemen, and there were protests in the 90s for the same thing, which is depressing because nothing changes.

The idea that "it doesn’t seem that Japan has any issue regarding American citizens committing crimes inside Japan, then fleeing Japan, and bringing them back into Japan to charge them" is true in some cases. It's absolutely not in others. The type of crime and implications matter. Which is not the same as saying cases against American servicemen are never pursued criminally; they are. There are just other factors that also play a role.

The current (2024) eruption of conflict is primarily connected to cases involving sexual assault and kidnapping perpetrated by American servicemen--crimes that are much different than the one cited above. Someone who murdered 4 people and is facing a potential death sentence, who may have been under 18, and that's without even getting into the killer's potential ethnicity being one historically fraught with a lot of implications--this is all an extremely tense issue. Like, this could be "damage international relations longterm" territory. A Green Beret smuggling a guy out is not.

I have no idea who killed them. Just no clue. Honestly, I expect it to be someone local and not even on the radar, but after 23 years, any idea goes. Virtually, any.

So let’s assume that it was someone from the base who later returned back. The Miyazawas deserve justice, but don’t we, living in the US, deserve safety? I don’t believe that this guy just did it once. He either is on high doses of medications and shouldn’t ever stop, or he still does something very cruel, but quietly.

So the amount of anger from the US citizens if it is found out that 1) he is American and 2) that he did it here, too, I can’t even fathom. People of Japan are more placid, maybe it is Buddhism or Shinto that helps. But can you imagine the reaction here? Especially if he killed someone before or after that stay. I can’t even imagine.

So - I don’t care how they handle the political angle, but our respected bodies dealing with the allegations should rule out the possibility of the perpetrator living in the US. For us. It is not that difficult.
 
I have no idea who killed them. Just no clue. Honestly, I expect it to be someone local and not even on the radar, but after 23 years, any idea goes. Virtually, any.

So let’s assume that it was someone from the base who later returned back. The Miyazawas deserve justice, but don’t we, living in the US, deserve safety? I don’t believe that this guy just did it once. He either is on high doses of medications and shouldn’t ever stop, or he still does something very cruel, but quietly.

So the amount of anger from the US citizens if it is found out that 1) he is American and 2) that he did it here, too, I can’t even fathom. People of Japan are more placid, maybe it is Buddhism or Shinto that helps. But can you imagine the reaction here? Especially if he killed someone before or after that stay. I can’t even imagine.

So - I don’t care how they handle the political angle, but our respected bodies dealing with the allegations should rule out the possibility of the perpetrator living in the US. For us. It is not that difficult.
Don’t the people of Japan deserve safety? These vile acts by American servicemen are still happening even today, let alone 23 years ago if this turned out to be someone from a base again.
It is one thing saying US citizens would be outraged over this, but it is another that there could be diplomatic fall out between the United States and Japan if true.
I don’t think you would see any form of placidity from Japanese citizens over this.
 
Don’t the people of Japan deserve safety? These vile acts by American servicemen are still happening even today, let alone 23 years ago if this turned out to be someone from a base again.
It is one thing saying US citizens would be outraged over this, but it is another that there could be diplomatic fall out between the United States and Japan if true.
I don’t think you would see any form of placidity from Japanese citizens over this.

If - if, and deep inside this is not how I view him - but if indeed he is from the US and escaped to the US, then he will never get back to Japan. If so, he is the biggest danger for the people in the US, and maybe, in some countries he can visit. But this is very hypothetical and tbh, I read different world articles about it - the version that he is from US base is by far not on top of the list.
 
If - if, and deep inside this is not how I view him - but if indeed he is from the US and escaped to the US, then he will never get back to Japan. If so, he is the biggest danger for the people in the US, and maybe, in some countries he can visit. But this is very hypothetical and tbh, I read different world articles about it - the version that he is from US base is by far not on top of the list.
RSBM: Charlot, respectfully, everything is hypothetical. Which list exactly do you refer to? Which would be the prevailing version? Which is the 'most likely'? If the TMPD cannot say which theory is the most likely, then nor can you or I. That the crime took place in Japan makes the killer likely Japanese has logic to it. But then again, this isn't a numbers game. This is one man. Given the circumstances around him, I think the argument that he isn't Japanese is equally sound. You may not view him as American but I do. Neither holds more weight. But there is absolutely no 'list' of more or less likely theories here. (I exclude the ideas of Ichihashi here which are unfailingly garbage and, I would add, espoused for profit without any kind of consideration for Setsuko Miyazawa et al. Or, to put another way, the only theory which made Chief Tsuchita laugh out loud then shake his head).
So let’s assume that it was someone from the base who later returned back. The Miyazawas deserve justice, but don’t we, living in the US, deserve safety?
Of course, Americans deserve safety. Who doesn't? But this killer, as far as we know, has never struck again anywhere on earth. Whether he's dead or simply has never re-offended, the past 24 years suggest that he's unlikely to murder again. Then again, if safety from violent crime were the overarching concern, then why live in America and not Iceland?
I don’t believe that this guy just did it once. He either is on high doses of medications and shouldn’t ever stop, or he still does something very cruel, but quietly.
Speculation on my part but I do happen to believe he never acted out again. As per FACELESS, this is supported by the multiple experts I spoke to. The idea that once a killer kills, he'll always kill again--is not supported by reality. For every Ted Bundy, there are thousands of secret murderers, mowing their lawns, nodding to their neighbours in the morning. And it follows, half of homicides go unsolved each year in the US.
So the amount of anger from the US citizens if it is found out that 1) he is American and 2) that he did it here, too, I can’t even fathom. People of Japan are more placid, maybe it is Buddhism or Shinto that helps. But can you imagine the reaction here? Especially if he killed someone before or after that stay. I can’t even imagine.
There are 127 million people in Japan. The crime-rate is lower, yes. But I don't put much stock in blanket statements about an entire populace. Moreover, I think the idea that there would be one iota of outrage compared to what we'd see back in Japan is just plain wrong. The outrage would be for multiple reasons, too. In 2021, some 25,000 Americans were murdered by gun alone. In Japan that same year the figure was below 300, taking into account all methods. So ignoring the sociopolitics, the history, the fact that this one of Japan's most notorious crimes (whereas most Americans have never even heard of it), just by the numbers alone, I strongly disagree.
So - I don’t care how they handle the political angle, but our respected bodies dealing with the allegations should rule out the possibility of the perpetrator living in the US. For us. It is not that difficult.
But clearly it is that difficult or it would've been done by now. And it's all well and good to ignore politics but it doesn't mean they vanish. Or, if we flip this around, why haven't the TMPD investigated and eliminated this angle?
 
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Rather than the skater angle, what about the nearby baseball field? Baseball is the quintessential American sport, plus a very popular sport in Japan. If the perp was American, possibly a highschooler, would there be access/use of the baseball field for anything he was doing or participating in? Could the perp have been a university student? How visible was the home from the baseball field?

I'm just randomly musing and am still catching up so I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed or discounted.
There is a baseball field very nearby, yes. I don't know if the TMPD specifically investigated those involved in the sport but I can tell you that the local schools and universities were all combed extensively. It's definitely possible the killer was a student -- that is the official view of the TMPD, after all. The fact that they descended on pretty much every local learning institution leads me to believe the killer wasn't involved with one of them.
 
I’ve been looking at maps lately after the recent posts here and from what I understand the baseball ground at the back of the house is owned by Komazawa University so I am assuming it is a private ground for their use only. Next to the ground is a university dormitory so students were around this area very often I’d say.

Whereas the tennis court, skate park and other parks are city owned and available for public use.
Yes, exactly right. Though from my own anecdotal observation, it did seem like adults were going in there the last time I was in Soshigaya. So, I'm assuming it's rentable either outside of term / or after-hours.
 
Could the university have hosted baseball games for high schoolers, maybe between American students on base vs. local students from Japan? Were university games open to the public? If so, could the perp have attended games as a spectator while also checking out the surrounding area? (But it seems less likely in winter, imo.)

Like I said, just trying to think of different angles or possibilities.
I can tell you that such competitions did take place, yes. As for whether or not the killer was a spectator, I have no clue. But I would say that a man sitting in a park, minding his own business, would likely cut a less suspicious figure than standing outside a house on a residential street. So, assuming the killer did observe the Miyazawas, he would've had ample opportunity without standing out so much. There are various unsubstantiated 'sightings' of dodgy men in the area either looking at the house / arguing with Mikio / encountering him in local businesses. The TMPD got nowhere with any of these, though.
 
Actually there's currently a huge news story in Japan about the police covering up or refusing to pursue crimes committed by American servicemen, and there were protests in the 90s for the same thing, which is depressing because nothing changes.

The idea that "it doesn’t seem that Japan has any issue regarding American citizens committing crimes inside Japan, then fleeing Japan, and bringing them back into Japan to charge them" is true in some cases. It's absolutely not in others. The type of crime and implications matter. Which is not the same as saying cases against American servicemen are never pursued criminally; they are. There are just other factors that also play a role.

The current (2024) eruption of conflict is primarily connected to cases involving sexual assault and kidnapping perpetrated by American servicemen--crimes that are much different than the one cited above. Someone who murdered 4 people and is facing a potential death sentence, who may have been under 18, and that's without even getting into the killer's potential ethnicity being one historically fraught with a lot of implications--this is all an extremely tense issue. Like, this could be "damage international relations longterm" territory. A Green Beret smuggling a guy out is not.
Absolutely spot on. Not that I saw the relevance in citing an American who assisted in a corporate elopement or another who SA'd a child using his own vehicle, leaving a trial of evidence to his home address, and left a live victim to give their testimony. I could cite dozens of cases to support my theory but it's a waste of time. It's beyond obvious that these are different circumstances. It's also beyond obvious that I'm not suggesting that Japanese LE can never arrest an American or that extradition is impossible in all circumstances. (Although, good luck trying to get the State Dept to sign off on an American potentially sent to a death row where you are given one hours' notice before execution in a nation with a conviction rate on par with North Korea).

Personally, I think the implications of the killer having been the son of USAF officer in this massive case are pretty clear. If a user wishes to misconstrue my theory, that's their look-out. If they wish to assume that diplomatic relations between Japan/US is a game of Uno, again, bon chance.
 
Actually there's currently a huge news story in Japan about the police covering up or refusing to pursue crimes committed by American servicemen, and there were protests in the 90s for the same thing, which is depressing because nothing changes.

The idea that "it doesn’t seem that Japan has any issue regarding American citizens committing crimes inside Japan, then fleeing Japan, and bringing them back into Japan to charge them" is true in some cases. It's absolutely not in others. The type of crime and implications matter. Which is not the same as saying cases against American servicemen are never pursued criminally; they are. There are just other factors that also play a role.

The current (2024) eruption of conflict is primarily connected to cases involving sexual assault and kidnapping perpetrated by American servicemen--crimes that are much different than the one cited above. Someone who murdered 4 people and is facing a potential death sentence, who may have been under 18, and that's without even getting into the killer's potential ethnicity being one historically fraught with a lot of implications--this is all an extremely tense issue. Like, this could be "damage international relations longterm" territory. A Green Beret smuggling a guy out is not.
It’s supposed to be the son of and not an actual AFB military personnel, correct? I’m prepared for downvotes + discord but I personally believe the kidnapping, torture, and rape of underage girls done by actually AFB military personnel themselves (for which they have been charged and sentenced for) is infinitely worse than a quick mass murder. Both are obviously tragic and this is strictly JMO (I know there’s people that would disagree). This is why I think if there is diplomatic reluctance regarding this crime, it doesn’t make much sense. Again, JMO. Cover ups are always worse diplomatically + in the public eye.

I personally think there’s just not enough evidence to pursue that angle. The evidence appears to be the sand. But, initially, when news about the sand surfaced it was said to come from America or the Miura Peninsula. And then, several years down the road, it was revised to only Edwards AFB. Then, when inquired, TMPD was said to not have actually pursued the sand. So it’s all a bit complexing.

Again I personally think if there was enough circumstantial evidence presented to the military/AFB, then there can definitely be cooperation and assistance. After all, they can turn in actual military personnel for the torture and rape of children over to the Japanese legal system, I don’t see why they would hesitate to not cooperate unless there simply wasn’t enough solid evidence. Japan and the US are extremely close allies after all, it’s not a Russia/Iran/China and US situation. JMO
 
I have a wife and a boy and girl, almost identical in age to the Miyazawa children. There are other families, similar to the Miyazawas, that reside where the killer is now. While I don't believe the killer has killed since leaving Japan, I completely believe he's capable of doing so again. For public safety, he needs to be at least identified. Then, let TMPD act as they will.

TMPD is doing a huge disservice, not only to the Miyazawa family, but to unbeknownst families who are currently in the killers path. I don't know if the stereotype of Japanese shame truly exists. Regardless, there's going to be an extreme level of that when the public is made aware of this, which I suspect will be soon. As much as Nic respects the Chief, his failure to catch the killer, whilst a novelist and a group of armchair sleuths staying up late at night in their American basements do, will unfortunately be "Chiefs" lasting legacy.

In Faceless, Nic briefly touched on an incident where he thought the killer might be right outside his window. While he quickly brushed off the idea, it's not completely far fetched. He's also stated on this forum that while he doesn't think he'll come after him, he's ready if he does. These thoughts are actually quite rational.

A quick Google search prompts Faceless, this forum, and others showing things beginning to narrow down the killer. Surely he has to have looked at some. And as the case continues to build, I suspect so too does his tension. It's very logical to assume he'll act on it.
 
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I have no idea what the procedure is for personnel to enter or exit any of these military bases. A logbook perhaps? Did the TMPD check these log books to see if anyone entered or exited these bases on the night in question? Maybe no one of a suspicious nature was identified out and about during the time of the murders, and this is why they so easily dismiss the theory.
 
I have no idea what the procedure is for personnel to enter or exit any of these military bases. A logbook perhaps? Did the TMPD check these log books to see if anyone entered or exited these bases on the night in question? Maybe no one of a suspicious nature was identified out and about during the time of the murders, and this is why they so easily dismiss the theory.
People on those bases that I've spoken to have independently raised doubts as to how rigorous those records will be for familial egress, particularly when dealing with the son of a big cheese, for example. That's anecdotal. But, at any rate, we know that the TMPD did not investigate the airbase.
 
I have a wife and a boy and girl, almost identical in age to the Miyazawa children. There are other families, similar to the Miyazawas, that reside where the killer is now. While I don't believe the killer has killed since leaving Japan, I completely believe he's capable of doing so again. For public safety, he needs to be at least identified. Then, let TMPD act as they will.

TMPD is doing a huge disservice, not only to the Miyazawa family, but to unbeknownst families who are currently in the killers path. I don't know if the stereotype of Japanese shame truly exists. Regardless, there's going to be an extreme level of that when the public is made aware of this, which I suspect will be soon. As much as Nic respects the Chief, his failure to catch the killer, whilst a novelist and a group of armchair sleuths staying up late at night in their American basements do, will unfortunately be "Chiefs" lasting legacy.

In Faceless, Nic briefly touched on an incident where he thought the killer might be right outside his window. While he quickly brushed off the idea, it's not completely far fetched. He's also stated on this forum that while he doesn't think he'll come after him, he's ready if he does. These thoughts are actually quite rational.

A quick Google search prompts Faceless, this forum, and others showing things beginning to narrow down the killer. Surely he has to have looked at some. And as the case continues to build, I suspect so too does his tension. It's very logical to assume he'll act on it.
If he is alive, whether he is Japanese or American or anything else… I have no doubt in my mind he knows people are onto him. If he is American or English speaking I would say he may have even seen us here. Certainly he has seen Wikipedia, maybe even the Faceless podcasts. If he is Japanese then the outfit he murdered them in is displayed on televisions ever year and on posters around the country.
It is very unsettling to think about.
 

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