Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

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@FacelessPodcast yeah I was thinking you might find it interesting. It does not say their names in the interview just that they’re the principals of Niina’s elementary and Rei’s kindergarten. It’s towards the end of the clip and Niina’s principal is the first one speaking.

This was actually broadcast on December 31st 2000 and some of the footage shows the house and surroundings very clearly on that day. Quite interesting imo:

 
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Re: the petition, that guy comes off as a loon. I’m not sure what he thinks spamming the TMPD in English is going to achieve with his theories. There’s a reason you don’t do that: you’ll be ignored.

The Reddit post is interesting though.
Also, it seems to me the person is a grand example of confirmation biases issues...
 
Ignoring the utter dross riven throughout this ‘petition’, there are two big problems he does not overcome:

1) If the killer is not Japanese, how is he travelling in and out of the nation without the fingerprinting system catching him out?

2) If he is actively Korean, his prints would likely be on the national citizen database.

3) Unrelated but my favourite part: “His friend mentioned they watch a movie together. It's possible John Doe was fascinated by American Psycho and this may lead him to commit these murders.”

I watched Alien Romulus the other day. I dread to think what I’m capable of…

@FacelessPodcast,

About the petition:

- Vsevolod Ibragimov is not the real name, of course, but whoever prompted it has a relative that speaks Russian
- The person who wrote the petition definitely masters better English but intentionally made it sound as if written by a non-native.
- The timing is interesting. To be honest, in Russian-speaking communities this case has not been of much interest. Whoever could, had already made own youtube videos. There is not much new to report.
- Cases like this attract freaks, but "the lady doth protest too much". The petition is made to sound grotesquely looney.
- The goal is not to draw attention to some mysterious 54-year-old Korean-Canadian-American working in IT. Although I would not be surprised to find out that someone's relative indeed, continues to travel to Japan, for whatever reason.

I have two opposing theories:
the reneved interest to the case has made someone anxious. Perhaps your poi is pretty realistic, so here comes a petition that, in a lump of nonsense, hints at your idea being along the same looney tunes, so to say.

If this is so, then timewise, posting links to Yokota school yearbooks has ignited something.

The opposite theory: anything to revive the interest to the case because it is a dead end street.

My opinion: the answer to the case will be via the DNA. Maybe the next petition to TMPD should be about it/s
 
@FacelessPodcast,

About the petition:

- Vsevolod Ibragimov is not the real name, of course, but whoever prompted it has a relative that speaks Russian
- The person who wrote the petition definitely masters better English but intentionally made it sound as if written by a non-native.
- The timing is interesting. To be honest, in Russian-speaking communities this case has not been of much interest. Whoever could, had already made own youtube videos. There is not much new to report.
- Cases like this attract freaks, but "the lady doth protest too much". The petition is made to sound grotesquely looney.
- The goal is not to draw attention to some mysterious 54-year-old Korean-Canadian-American working in IT. Although I would not be surprised to find out that someone's relative indeed, continues to travel to Japan, for whatever reason.

I have two opposing theories:
the reneved interest to the case has made someone anxious. Perhaps your poi is pretty realistic, so here comes a petition that, in a lump of nonsense, hints at your idea being along the same looney tunes, so to say.

If this is so, then timewise, posting links to Yokota school yearbooks has ignited something.
Very interesting...
 
Just want to add a thought about the balcony as an entry point.

My guess is the balcony door was most likely always kept locked for safety reasons due to Rei's age and his mental limitations. Of course, this doesn't mean our killer couldn't have forced it open.

I'm probably wrong.
 
Forgive me, I'm always late to interesting cases and trying to catch up. This is an overwhelming one, lot of pages! I've been reading to try to not repeat thoughts, discussions, etc.

I'm in a rush today but a few questions and thoughts I have (again sorry if already discussed a million times, I have tried to keep track!):

1. Was that chemical agent ruled out not to be connected to graffiti paint or stage set/design? I know traces in the garage but the theatre connection gets me a bit...

2. Sounds like a car is the consensus to leave crime scene. Sounds like a skateboard wouldn't be used because the distance theorized?

3. I can't shake the skateboarder/car park confrontation either as a possible trigger as mentioned upthread recently by @SteveL ... My father worked in a maximum security prison interviewing violent and dangerous offenders (Canada) and mentioned many murders are committed because something as little as a 'put down'. Comment made, attacker stews on it for hours, days, weeks and even months then goes back to commenter and commits murder.

4. This almost seems like incel before there was incel in a way. The females were brutalized more - even after death. I wonder if attacker was acquainted with the mother in some form (in passing, teaching, at a store, a put down or whatever) and she was the ultimate target and rest collateral damage (awful thing to say). I wondered about the 2chan/4chan connection if there was any type of 'incel' type discussions happening way back then. Oddly, this has case gives me Idaho 4 vibes in a way too.

5. Has it been totally ruled out the killer wasn't let in through the front door? If there was any brief acquaintance in passing at all (theatre, friend of Mom' student, kid from the skate park/park) maybe he was let in even accidentally or if feeling disarmed if attacker sounded like he needed help.

IIRC the etiquette and culture is different in Japan and most folks don't knock on other's door but I can't remember what I read on that here. If I get a knock at our door that time of night, I would look who and ask and decide to open it. Someone could've came to the door acting as a good samaritan - telling the Father 'hey your car door is open' or something. ETA: I realize this thought is moot. Rei was killed first so the timing and order of events wouldn't make sense being let in I don't think
 
Just want to add a thought about the balcony as an entry point.

My guess is the balcony door was most likely always kept locked for safety reasons due to Rei's age and his mental limitations. Of course, this doesn't mean our killer couldn't have forced it open.

I'm probably wrong.
Balconies in Japan are used to dry laundry so it would’ve been opened and closed throughout the day many times. Even today the laundry pole remains propped up on there.
This one just had a simple swing lock and not one that required a key, so it can easily be opened by even a child. My thoughts on if the balcony were used as an entry point is that the lock was simply left open by mistake - I’ve done it many times myself on my own.
Here’s a picture of the lock and laundry pole:
IMG_3754.jpeg
Additionally from press footage it could be confirmed the bathroom window had the same keyless swing lock.
 
5. Has it been totally ruled out the killer wasn't let in through the front door? If there was any brief acquaintance in passing at all (theatre, friend of Mom' student, kid from the skate park/park) maybe he was let in even accidentally or if feeling disarmed if attacker sounded like he needed help.

IIRC the etiquette and culture is different in Japan and most folks don't knock on other's door but I can't remember what I read on that here. If I get a knock at our door that time of night, I would look who and ask and decide to open it. Someone could've came to the door acting as a good samaritan - telling the Father 'hey your car door is open' or something. ETA: I realize this thought is moot. Rei was killed first so the timing and order of events wouldn't make sense being let in I don't think
Having spent the last month reading back to back these threads I'm positive all of your points were already discussed and some of them discounted but I just wanted to touch on this one briefly because I also talked about it just one page ago (and raised fairly similar questions).

The front door hasn't been officially ruled out, but then again it is the most problematic and improbable one, even when compared to the bathroom window.

In short, not only the front door was locked (which is a whole problem in itself), but as you have also correctly pointed out we know with almost certainty Rei was the first one killed.

Also a detail even I that live in Japan forgot and Nic reminded me: we know the Killer had his shoes on for the whole time and being invited in from the front door it would be literally impossible for him not taking off the shoes.
In Japan this is such a big no-no that he would have been thrown out of the house if he didn't (again, Mikio was not only killed second, but he was found in a place incompatible with being killed at the front door).

Even admitting he removed his shoes, killed Rei, killed Mikio, and then put his shoes on, I believe I recall correctly that the traces of the shoes start from the second floor.
 
About the petition, I was referring to this:


That said: I do not agree with the assessments made by this person. There is also a lack of evidence backing everything up.

The "evidence" they refer to is just a list of seemingly random information.

Make of it what you will!
The author's petition went into great detail and spent a lot of energy. Many of his claims support some of our common assessments of our POIs. Either the author is delusional or onto something. I suggest the later.

For whatever reason, member "Grek"'s post is currently being ignored. Is he the killer? Most probably not. But he sure as *advertiser censored* makes some bold statements. To be honest, he definitely opened my eyes into some perspectives I hadn't considered. And once again, they tie into our POIs.

I'm starting to wonder if things aren't following another author's narrative.......

I consider Nic a true real life HERO. The work he's spent on this case is equal parts superhuman, meticulous and kind. It's because of him, we have POIs. I've spoken with several members offline, and it seems we have 4 potential suspects. To be honest, I question my own POI, based on the insight and intelligence others have graciously shared with me. One thing our POIs have in common...Yokota Air Force Base. (Thanks again to Nic.)

I hate when people suggest what Nic "should be doing." However, awhile back, Nic respectfully requested things we DON'T do. He's the expert, and put in so much hard work, that only a dolt would disregard and disrespect him.....at the time.

I'm very front facing that I have a family that almost squarely fits the demographics of the Miyazawas. I'm in Chicago, and the killer is most likely in California or Texas. But we'll be visiting Texas soon. And there are families who are daily in the killer's range, regardless of where he resides.

I've suggested that if funds were a concern, we crowd source DNA research. It's quite easy for one of us members to extract DNA via a POIs garbage, personally, or through use of retired law enforcement, PI, etc. I also suggest the Yokota group chats, Facebook pages, etc are an invaluable resource. Also, I'm certain Nic has spoken with the POIs Yokota HS associates. But, would another set of voices contacting them be helpful? And personally, as a former college newspaper EIC, I have to bite my tongue constantly out of respect to Nic's request to not contact the Yokota and other local student newspapers with "hot tips." But trust me, they would RUN with this lead.

This thread collectively KNOWS who did this. Thanks to Nic. So, many of us are deferring to his lead (logically and respectfully). But this is getting old. There's families in the killer's current sightline. As the evidence and pressure mounts, I'm quite certain the probability of him acting again has heightened. I'm concerned an author's side is trying to control the narrative, over justice and public safety.
 
Having spent the last month reading back to back these threads I'm positive all of your points were already discussed and some of them discounted but I just wanted to touch on this one briefly because I also talked about it just one page ago (and raised fairly similar questions).

The front door hasn't been officially ruled out, but then again it is the most problematic and improbable one, even when compared to the bathroom window.

In short, not only the front door was locked (which is a whole problem in itself), but as you have also correctly pointed out we know with almost certainty Rei was the first one killed.

Also a detail even I that live in Japan forgot and Nic reminded me: we know the Killer had his shoes on for the whole time and being invited in from the front door it would be literally impossible for him not taking off the shoes.
In Japan this is such a big no-no that he would have been thrown out of the house if he didn't (again, Mikio was not only killed second, but he was found in a place incompatible with being killed at the front door).

Even admitting he removed his shoes, killed Rei, killed Mikio, and then put his shoes on, I believe I recall correctly that the traces of the shoes start from the second floor.
Thank you for this info! Yes I tried to read as much as I could but I don't get much time on here in general so couldn't read all the threads wholly unfortunately. Even when I do read the threads I find it hard to remember all the details as there is a lot here to process.

Also, reading other sources I find some things confusing. I don't think we can post Wikipedia links here but the Japanese Wikipedia page that translates to English mentioned (to paraphrase - I believe we can paraphrase on here as I checked TOS) the entry/exit ideas and the front door is mentioned and if so, he may have taken his shoes off then put back on as bloody footprints were only going in one direction - up the stairs. Also footprints walked sideways up the stairs not forward which is taught in military (or seen on TV!)

I have also read it was thought the killer took the NYE cards but it was actually police which was probably clarified here as well in the threads somewhere.
 
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@FacelessPodcast yeah I was thinking you might find it interesting. It does not say their names in the interview just that they’re the principals of Niina’s elementary and Rei’s kindergarten. It’s towards the end of the clip and Niina’s principal is the first one speaking.

This was actually broadcast on December 31st 2000 and some of the footage shows the house and surroundings very clearly on that day. Quite interesting imo:


I notice in this video that there are some kind of white covers on the side view mirrors on the vehicle. Were there fingerprints & LE was protecting them? I really do wonder if using the vehicle to access the balcony was the entry & possibly exit route & there's some evidence that LE has but has never released. Also, has LE ever said if they found that balcony door unlocked when they arrived at the scene?
 
I notice in this video that there are some kind of white covers on the side view mirrors on the vehicle. Were there fingerprints & LE was protecting them? I really do wonder if using the vehicle to access the balcony was the entry & possibly exit route & there's some evidence that LE has but has never released. Also, has LE ever said if they found that balcony door unlocked when they arrived at the scene?
Yes you’re right, Nic had hypothesised a while back when the balcony theory was proposed that it could mean this.
IMG_3757.jpeg
In this screen grab the we can see the size of the gap between the fence and the house, which believe is about 1 metre or so. The officer here dusting the window for prints looks like he is balancing between the fence and back of the house, but that fence is also 2 metres in height if the killer climbed it and he then had to fall forward onto the back of the house to balance and climb up. I believe it was in that gap his footprints were found too.
IMG_3758.jpeg
Obviously not impossible as seen in the reconstructions I posted a while back but it is interesting to see.

Nothing has ever been said publicly about the balcony doors being unlocked or not, and it has also not been confirmed he used the bathroom window either. But the bathroom window was found actually ajar.
 
Small addendum to my piano theory: what if the killer was the piano instructor to Nina or Rei?
It wouldn't change much about the reconstruction I have imagined if not within the things he would say to Mikio "I'm sorry to barge here this late but I forgot something over the piano and I have urgent need of it. Since the New Year's Holidays are approaching I might not have another time to collect them." (Or, if like suggested in the past he really did left the country/planned to, and the Miyazawas knew, the more reason to have the need to ask to collect the things in such an usual moment).
I do feel there was an interaction in some form between the killer and the family or family member somewhere at some point. I think there is a connection if even brief or a quasi relationship through something (lessons, customer, restaurant, the parks/neighborhood, etc.)

Maybe a diss, maybe some perverse crush yet dislike of Yasuko (maybe targeted) or whatever. Maybe the killer felt a small connection to Rei to spare him a gory death. Maybe he saw something in Rei that reminded him of himself in some way. Or if he did have an interaction with the family, he knew of Rei being non-verbal so not so much a threat and killed him differently.

The sheer nerve and desire to treat their house like garbage after is another insult after the crime. I think killer was stewing and felt vindicated after his deed, so much so that's why he didn't care to leave his stuff. He did what he wanted and needed to do it and almost didn't care at that point if caught. I think he was satisfied. Cold blooded, this has to get solved!
 
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The author's petition went into great detail and spent a lot of energy. Many of his claims support some of our common assessments of our POIs. Either the author is delusional or onto something. I suggest the later.

For whatever reason, member "Grek"'s post is currently being ignored. Is he the killer? Most probably not. But he sure as *advertiser censored* makes some bold statements. To be honest, he definitely opened my eyes into some perspectives I hadn't considered. And once again, they tie into our POIs.

I'm starting to wonder if things aren't following another author's narrative.......

I consider Nic a true real life HERO. The work he's spent on this case is equal parts superhuman, meticulous and kind. It's because of him, we have POIs. I've spoken with several members offline, and it seems we have 4 potential suspects. To be honest, I question my own POI, based on the insight and intelligence others have graciously shared with me. One thing our POIs have in common...Yokota Air Force Base. (Thanks again to Nic.)

I hate when people suggest what Nic "should be doing." However, awhile back, Nic respectfully requested things we DON'T do. He's the expert, and put in so much hard work, that only a dolt would disregard and disrespect him.....at the time.

I'm very front facing that I have a family that almost squarely fits the demographics of the Miyazawas. I'm in Chicago, and the killer is most likely in California or Texas. But we'll be visiting Texas soon. And there are families who are daily in the killer's range, regardless of where he resides.

I've suggested that if funds were a concern, we crowd source DNA research. It's quite easy for one of us members to extract DNA via a POIs garbage, personally, or through use of retired law enforcement, PI, etc. I also suggest the Yokota group chats, Facebook pages, etc are an invaluable resource. Also, I'm certain Nic has spoken with the POIs Yokota HS associates. But, would another set of voices contacting them be helpful? And personally, as a former college newspaper EIC, I have to bite my tongue constantly out of respect to Nic's request to not contact the Yokota and other local student newspapers with "hot tips." But trust me, they would RUN with this lead.

This thread collectively KNOWS who did this. Thanks to Nic. So, many of us are deferring to his lead (logically and respectfully). But this is getting old. There's families in the killer's current sightline. As the evidence and pressure mounts, I'm quite certain the probability of him acting again has heightened. I'm concerned an author's side is trying to control the narrative, over justice and public safety.
I said in my previous posts that I will not talk about the POI anymore and so I will adhere to that, just wanted to add that the claims of the person in the petition do not support any of our "common assessments of our POI".
The things that are written in these threads do not reflect any of the claims in the petition, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Also, your POI could be different from Nic's POI, from mine, what-have-you. Hell, it could even be that we are all wrong about the POI and we are falling into confirmation bias territory.

All to say: I believe everything is shifting too much on the POI (which is something over our control or scope) and less on other thing that we could just discuss/contribute.

That being said, I understand your frustration, I really do, but I also believe we should keep our cool and try to not act with our "guts", so to say.

Exactly because this is a serious matter we must be patient because I'm sure many things are going on in the background and it would be best not to theorize that measures are not being taken/nothing is being done.
I actually believe the opposite.

About GreK's post, I have personally not ignored it, but there are many things in the post that bother me, not only the phrasing of many things is odd to me, but also they mention where some of the objects were left as if they were a given (such as the gloves in the kitchen).
This, to my memory, was never brought up. Was this ever disclosed?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I do feel there was an interaction in some form between the killer and the family or family member somewhere at some point. I think there is a connection if even brief or a quasi relationship through something (lessons, customer, restaurant, the parks/neighborhood, etc.)

Maybe a diss, maybe some perverse crush yet dislike of Yasuko (maybe targeted) or whatever. Maybe the killer felt a small connection to Rei to spare him a gory death. Maybe he saw something in Rei that reminded him of himself in some way. Or if he did have an interaction with the family, he knew of Rei being non-verbal so not so much a threat and killed him differently.

The sheer nerve and desire to treat their house like garbage after is another insult after the crime. I think killer was stewing and felt vindicated after his deed, so much so that's why he didn't care to leave his stuff. He did what he wanted and needed to do it and almost didn't care at that point if caught. I think he was satisfied. Cold blooded, this has to get solved!
My personal opinion on this is that if there was a direct connection the TMPD would have found him, but I believe there was definitely an encounter. To what degree I’m unsure, but at the very least he saw the family somewhere and decided to kill them. I reflect back on the Ogikubo station posts and think it could have been there since the family also passed through. But the killer also wore tennis shoes and there is a tennis court right by the house, for example. A chance encounter somewhere is my bet. JMO.
 
About the bathroom window, this is an emergency escape route, carefully prepared and thought out. The window is open, the screen is down, the shower curtain is open. If someone opens the front door, the same police, then he will run away through this window. A wonderful place to get away if anything. Through the window in the living room you can see what’s in front of the house, you can also see it from the nursery, and you can also hear it. The police can be seen, the neighbors can be seen and heard. But obviously I didn't have to use it. It turns out that he is very advanced in this regard, and he had to climb into houses before, and more than once. In fact, he got in without a trace, disappeared without a trace - and no one can understand how he did it. He searched well too, bank cards, savings books, looked for passwords (PIN), like a pro. But the murders - in general, like the first time, complete improvisation, a bunch of wrong actions, decisions. Starting from the choice of knife and the way to carry it. He wanted to rob quietly, he improved his skills, but something went wrong. He realized this when he got hurt and was covered in blood. He could have taken off his jacket and left it in the nursery, and then put on a clean one, but for some reason he didn't do it, didn't have time? When he took off his gloves in the kitchen changing the knife, he realized that he had already left a mark so it was impossible to hide the traces, a lot of his blood everywhere, fingerprints. That's why he was so angry at the end. Ice cream and cold tea - he tried to cool down. And he's not afraid of blood, and calmly walks around bodies. So he had encountered this before, maybe he killed animals. If his work is connected with something like that, for example, cutting fish, animals, then the injury is easy to explain - like he cut himself at work, it happens, and those around him will believe in a light one.
I had thought possibly the killer may had been in the house already from earlier waiting for them to get home, I'm sure that was discussed already.

Like you say, maybe he did B&E's prior and was skilled, so could be another reason he felt comfortable hanging out after the murder making himself comfortable on some level. I still don't think this was robbery IMO, because Mikio was awake.

He might've done the female overkills at the end because angry his plan messed up, but I feel there's a bit more rooted rage there... again JMO.

I like your point about encountering blood/gore before and being comfortable. If this person is the son of military, perhaps his family hunts in the US so has been exposed on some level. Or even restaurant work but I think in restaurants that's pretty tame prep and not so gory. MOO
 
My personal opinion on this is that if there was a direct connection the TMPD would have found him, but I believe there was definitely an encounter. To what degree I’m unsure, but at the very least he saw the family somewhere and decided to kill them. I reflect back on the Ogikubo station posts and think it could have been there since the family also passed through. But the killer also wore tennis shoes and there is a tennis court right by the house, for example. A chance encounter somewhere is my bet. JMO.
From what I've read TMPD have dotted all their i's and sounds like direct connections have been ruled out. I guess I still like to be open though.

Yes agree, it could have been as simple as one of the victim's budging in line in front of the killer on the train or a diss or a short dialogue in a public place over something nonsensical but insulted the killer with rage or an 'I'll show you' type retaliation.

The killer strikes me as narcissistic and arrogant by what he did after the killings in the house, no regard whatsoever for human life or their belongings. Especially the toilet thing, that's a big 'eff U' to them even after how he already brutalized them.
 
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The killer strikes me as narcissistic and arrogant by what he did after the killings in the house, no regard whatsoever for human life or their belongings. Especially the toilet thing, that's a big 'eff U' to them even after what he already brutally to them.
RSBM: very much agree.
 

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