Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Eliver]

His DNA was found in the slippers, though? Although I can't exclude that he left it during the prior visit.

In the slippers?
I don't know. This is the first time I hear of this.

 

[Charlot123]

About the balcony. Someone asked how there were no traces left on top of the car if he used it to stand on it and get to the balcony.

I wonder, the tape we have been discussing many times. The tape can be used for the skateboard, but it can also be put on top of the car hood or any horizontal surface the man used as the "support" to get to the balcony.

That tape is essentially a paper with a strong friction force. It is used for skateboards but can be used to scale surfaces, too. What if the intention was to use it to climb on the balcony? It is another question whether he put it back afterwards (then some of the sand in the tummy bag, as there were several found, not only the Mojave one, but Miuri coast as well, could be from the sneakers on the paper). Or maybe, he later threw out the used tape in the house, or burned, or shred and dumped into the bathroom paper mess.

Ironically, the information from that "Vsevolod Ibragimov" or whoever the dude is, I shall call him VI for brevity, mentioned his suspect being onto "climbing the mountains." I don't know about it, but I immediately thought about rock climbing gyms. They are very popular where I live, probably were popular in Japan.

@FacelessPodcast, do you know if there are any rocks to climb in Mojave desert? I am horrified of that place although there is an interesting Chinese park nearby that I want to visit.

 

[Charlot123]

In the slippers?
I don't know. This is the first time I hear of this.

They constantly change it in Wikipedias. Once it was in Japanese one, I don’t know if it stayed. But, this fact is practically an open secret, all forums discuss it. In fact, it raises the biggest question in terms of, did he enter as a guest and then started killing and when it got slippery, he came back and put on own sneakers? Or did he use the slippers the day before?

 

[Incoherent]

They constantly change it in Wikipedias. Once it was in Japanese one, I don’t know if it stayed. But, this fact is practically an open secret, all forums discuss it. In fact, it raises the biggest question in terms of, did he enter as a guest and then started killing and when it got slippery, he came back and put on own sneakers? Or did he use the slippers the day before?

Which slippers are you suggesting here? A pair of spare house slippers? The only mention of slippers were Mikio’s on the staircase. Do you mean Mikio offered the killer his own slippers to wear in the house? Or do you mean the guest slippers in the genkan were all tested for DNA? Could you kindly provide a source for this?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast,

About the petition:

- Vsevolod Ibragimov is not the real name, of course, but whoever prompted it has a relative that speaks Russian

They changed their name. It was different before. I think the person is a kid.

- The person who wrote the petition definitely masters better English but intentionally made it sound as if written by a non-native.
- The timing is interesting. To be honest, in Russian-speaking communities this case has not been of much interest. Whoever could, had already made own youtube videos. There is not much new to report.
- Cases like this attract freaks, but "the lady doth protest too much". The petition is made to sound grotesquely looney.
- The goal is not to draw attention to some mysterious 54-year-old Korean-Canadian-American working in IT. Although I would not be surprised to find out that someone's relative indeed, continues to travel to Japan, for whatever reason.

I have two opposing theories:
the reneved interest to the case has made someone anxious. Perhaps your poi is pretty realistic, so here comes a petition that, in a lump of nonsense, hints at your idea being along the same looney tunes, so to say.

If this is so, then timewise, posting links to Yokota school yearbooks has ignited something.

The opposite theory: anything to revive the interest to the case because it is a dead end street.

My opinion: the answer to the case will be via the DNA. Maybe the next petition to TMPD should be about it/s

I agree with you that DNA would blow this case wide open, ignoring the problem that there is no real DNA database in Japan before the criminal one that the killer is already absent from. That leaves with international databases. That could certainly prove fruitful. It seems as if change is coming on this from, even if it takes a very long time.

As for the post above, there is so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Forgive me, I'm always late to interesting cases and trying to catch up. This is an overwhelming one, lot of pages! I've been reading to try to not repeat thoughts, discussions, etc.

I'm in a rush today but a few questions and thoughts I have (again sorry if already discussed a million times, I have tried to keep track!):

No apologies necessary, @Lalalacasbah. The thread is so big, nobody can keep track of these things anyway. Welcome! And thanks for your ideas.

1. Was that chemical agent ruled out not to be connected to graffiti paint or stage set/design? I know traces in the garage but the theatre connection gets me a bit...

In all likelihood it was merely highlighter pen. Of the many investigative avenues, this one seems among the least promising according to all the conversations I've had.

2. Sounds like a car is the consensus to leave crime scene. Sounds like a skateboard wouldn't be used because the distance theorized?

I don't know about consensus. I do, however, think he used a car. And it hasn't been discounted. It would also solve a lot of the issues around his escape.

3. I can't shake the skateboarder/car park confrontation either as a possible trigger as mentioned upthread recently by @SteveL ... My father worked in a maximum security prison interviewing violent and dangerous offenders (Canada) and mentioned many murders are committed because something as little as a 'put down'. Comment made, attacker stews on it for hours, days, weeks and even months then goes back to commenter and commits murder.

I've posted extensively on the skater thing. In short, the TMPD have gone after skaters for 24 years. Fingerprinted scores of them. I've spoken to some of these guys who used to skate at the park. One even had memories of Mikio coming out, asking them to keep the noise down (politely, and they all did as asked). They were all eliminated from the case. I don't say it's impossible that a slight could've been the trigger for these murders. Only that there is practically zero in this case that links the murders to skaters.

4. This almost seems like incel before there was incel in a way. The females were brutalized more - even after death. I wonder if attacker was acquainted with the mother in some form (in passing, teaching, at a store, a put down or whatever) and she was the ultimate target and rest collateral damage (awful thing to say). I wondered about the 2chan/4chan connection if there was any type of 'incel' type discussions happening way back then. Oddly, this has case gives me Idaho 4 vibes in a way too.

I disagree on the violence. Not that it's not a possibility -- it is -- just that we could argue it either way. We don't know the driver for the difference in murders. It could be hatred. It also could be that, as he killed Rei first, he wanted to stay as quiet as possible, and with Mikio, he then needed to remove the threat. Maybe the violence visited on Niina and Yasuko was driven by a pathologic hatred or rage towards women. Or maybe it was simply that now he felt free to 'let go' as it were. Or maybe what angered him was that his plan was imperfect, he had hurt himself and bled everywhere -- for all he knew in that moment, he was going to be caught, tried and hanged. No way he could've known he would be free all these years later. To be clear, what I'm disagreeing with isn't the possibility of an incel before incels had this term. Only that, if it were his motive re: Yasuko or Niina, I think the TMPD would've uncovered that by now. And if we're going by his actions in the house, that could be argued in a number of different ways.

As for 2Chan, you'll see throughout this thread that I've said multiple times, it's garbage. It was just a kid ****posting. He was found and eliminated from the investigation.

5. Has it been totally ruled out the killer wasn't let in through the front door? If there was any brief acquaintance in passing at all (theatre, friend of Mom' student, kid from the skate park/park) maybe he was let in even accidentally or if feeling disarmed if attacker sounded like he needed help.

It's not been totally ruled but, as per my recent posts, there's so much wrong / illogical in the premise, that I think it's comfortably the least likely.

IIRC the etiquette and culture is different in Japan and most folks don't knock on other's door but I can't remember what I read on that here. If I get a knock at our door that time of night, I would look who and ask and decide to open it. Someone could've came to the door acting as a good samaritan - telling the Father 'hey your car door is open' or something. ETA: I realize this thought is moot. Rei was killed first so the timing and order of events wouldn't make sense being let in I don't think

I think the idea that a known person would come for a late night visit and Mikio would let him upstairs where his family was asleep is highly unlikely. Also, remember that the killer took off a handkerchief that was pinched in the front which the TMPD say is from his nose -- put another, he was masking his face. It's technically possible he might've taken it off at the door to smile for the peephole and just had it in his hand or pocket. But I find that unlikely given the sequence of murders / his actions. This is a man that didn't want his face to be seen.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

In the slippers?
I don't know. This is the first time I hear of this.

I've posted this a hundred times; there is ZERO evidence of the slippers. I don't care what wikipedia says (without solid links by the way, they're mostly dead or just mentions of a newspaper and the month of publication). I can tell you categorically that there is no evidence the killer knew the family or had been in their house prior to the murders. So, unless LE was lying to my face for no real reason, we are free to believe the official line of investigation, or a wikipedia page entry -- after hitting the translate button, no less.

 

[Charlot123]

Which slippers are you suggesting here? A pair of spare house slippers? The only mention of slippers were Mikio’s on the staircase. Do you mean Mikio offered the killer his own slippers to wear in the house? Or do you mean the guest slippers in the genkan were all tested for DNA? Could you kindly provide a source for this?

Esteemed @Incoherent

Where I am now, it is easier to look for sources in Chinese

世田谷一家殺害事件 - 維基百科，自由的百科全書

zh.m.wikipedia.org

“Blood-stained shoe prints were found on the stairs leading from the first floor to the mezzanine. However, the shoe prints started from the middle of the stairs and went toward the upper floor. Therefore, the police suspected that the murderer might have taken off his shoes at the entrance, but after the murder, Because the floor was covered with blood, I had no choice but to put on my shoes again when heading to the second floor [ Note 2 ] .”

About the DNA in the slippers, I shall look up separately- as I have said, there are tons of sources online.

 

[Incoherent]

Esteemed @Incoherent

Where I am now, it is easier to look for sources in Chinese

世田谷一家殺害事件 - 維基百科，自由的百科全書

zh.m.wikipedia.org

“Blood-stained shoe prints were found on the stairs leading from the first floor to the mezzanine. However, the shoe prints started from the middle of the stairs and went toward the upper floor. Therefore, the police suspected that the murderer might have taken off his shoes at the entrance, but after the murder, Because the floor was covered with blood, I had no choice but to put on my shoes again when heading to the second floor [ Note 2 ] .”

About the DNA in the slippers, I shall look up separately- as I have said, there are tons of sources online.

Respectfully, the killer used the computer on the 1F while tending to his wounds with a sanitary towel that was found discarded next to it. He went up and down the staircase, stepping over the two bodies on the landing and the one at the bottom of the staircase while dumping documents and throwing around drawers from cabinets. Any inference that the killer’s foorprints only went in an upward direction is unlikely given the circumstances. In any case, this could just indicate he stabbed Mikio at the top or on the staircase before pushing him down to the bottom and the bloody footprints were him running back up again to climb the ladder to the loft to kill Yasuko and Niina.
Furthermore there is no link to any source on that Wiki and it just says Sankei Newspaper 2002.

 

[Charlot123]

They changed their name. It was different before. I think the person is a kid.

I agree with you that DNA would blow this case wide open, ignoring the problem that there is no real DNA database in Japan before the criminal one that the killer is already absent from. That leaves with international databases. That could certainly prove fruitful. It seems as if change is coming on this from, even if it takes a very long time.

As for the post above, there is so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin.

Do you think that the author of the petition is a kid? Well, he has five co-signers. A kid whose parents are international thieves, maybe?

BTW, it puts my mind on the track of old stories For example: a kid would squeeze through the upper portion of a window, then open the door for an adult thief. Usually robberies happened when people were away, but things can always take a wrong turn.

I don’t believe the group who wrote the petition is mentally ill.

Nic, do you, by any chance, know if a robbery aiming at something expensive has been fully ruled out by TMPD as the motive for the Setagaya murders? (What do we know here about true cost of things? I just went to an Asian museum, only to realize that an unpresentable piece of old jade is worth millions, because, Tang dynasty). And then, go find what has been stolen from the Miyazawas, given the mess and that it looks like a disgruntled student was searching through Yasuko’s papers?

Some things might look like more than one person was involved. That the DNA of one person has been found doesn’t mean there was only one. It just means that someone is free to plan more. TMPD probably saw many DNAs, but only one was linked to murders, meaning the killer was young, and he did his job poorly.

I don’t rule out your poi. I just wonder if he had some local friends and, given that he planned on leaving anyhow, he just decided to participate in a robbery, or something thrilling. Then things went badly wrong. That doesn’t explain the killing of Rei, but nothing explains it, tbh. It stands out so much that is almost a separate clue.

 

[Charlot123]

Respectfully, the killer used the computer on the 1F while tending to his wounds with a sanitary towel that was found discarded next to it. He went up and down the staircase, stepping over the two bodies on the landing and the one at the bottom of the staircase while dumping documents and throwing around drawers from cabinets. Any inference that the killer’s foorprints only went in an upward direction is unlikely given the circumstances. In any case, this could just indicate he stabbed Mikio at the top or on the staircase before pushing him down to the bottom and the bloody footprints were him running back up again to climb the ladder to the loft to kill Yasuko and Niina.
Furthermore there is no link to any source on that Wiki and it just says Sankei Newspaper 2002.

I’ll try to find the one with the links. I can take in people’s opinions, but I can’t subscribe to any theory so far, because no official theory exists, just an incredible number of clues without the main one.

 

[Incoherent]

I’ll try to find the one with the links. I can take in people’s opinions, but I can’t subscribe to any theory so far, because no official theory exists, just an incredible number of clues without the main one.

The killer going up and down the staircase, using the computer on the 1F, discarding the sanitary towel next to it, taking money from the shelves down there, dumping documents, throwing cabinet drawers, is all factual though. It is impossible for the only footprints found to be going up the staircase. The TMPD have explicitly stated Rei was killed first so how could the killer begin downstairs with Mikio and work his way up? By that time blood was absolutely everywhere and he was injured, yet nothing was found on Rei. It simply does not make sense.
While I can agree we cannot know the 100% exact movements of the killer that night, there is a degree of certainty with a lot of it and having footprints only ascending is quite frankly an impossibility.
Mikio lending his own slippers to a guest who has a much bigger foot size than him and when there are guest slippers for a reason, is another in my opinion.

 

[Janitor101]

It's possible Rei was strangled simply because the killer woke Rei inadvertently by creating noise as the killer fumbled with those sliding glass doors. Maybe Rei was awakened as the killer approached his bed and Rei attempted to make a run for it. In the struggle to subdue Rei, the killer simply had no time to scramble for his knife and was forced to asphyxiate the boy instead. This may be the reason Rei was found 'askew" on his bed.

But why no muddy footprints were visible on the family car is still a mystery (see @Incoherents photo of the car above) especially if it was the killer himself who left his footprints underneath the bathroom window. Did he remove his shoes before he shimmied up the balcony? It's possible, I guess.

I still think it's also possible he may have used the bathroom window as an exit point even though no threads or fibers, etc. were found. He had shed almost all of his belongings inside the house and maybe he just got lucky leaving no evidence behind in the window.

Did I read that the group of LE officers and lab techs that were first to process the scene weren't top notch as the more experienced group were off celebrating the NY holiday?

Maybe they missed something?