Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

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One thing that keeps dominating my thoughts about this case is that their house was so isolated compared to almost anywhere else in Tokyo for a regular residence. Did that play a factor? Was it just someone who was undergoing a mental break who saw the family going to and from the house (perhaps as they watched from the park) and started to fantasize about how easily he could kill a family. Perhaps he watched mom playing with the kids at the park. (Did she play with the kids at the park?)

What are the chances that someone had a specific grudge with this family who were located in such a unique location?
I just can't shake that thought.
 
One thing that keeps dominating my thoughts about this case is that their house was so isolated compared to almost anywhere else in Tokyo for a regular residence. Did that play a factor? Was it just someone who was undergoing a mental break who saw the family going to and from the house (perhaps as they watched from the park) and started to fantasize about how easily he could kill a family. Perhaps he watched mom playing with the kids at the park. (Did she play with the kids at the park?)

What are the chances that someone had a specific grudge with this family who were located in such a unique location?
I just can't shake that thought.
Yes, you are right. I know Tokyo relatively well and finding a house standing alone like this -in a city of 40 million- is almost unheard of. So, its setting clearly plays a factor in one way or another. We know there are reports that Yasuko talks of 'a car parking too close' to her house in the days before. That detail has seemingly gone nowhere but given how inconsiderate driving is far less of a thing as a rule in Japan, that could fit into your idea about someone watching them. Not to mention, there was a kids playground literally right outside their house. That playground actually looks on to the rear of the house which is exactly how he entered (most likely). And yes, we know that the Miyazawa kids did play there. Watching them would imply targeting them specifically, though. And if that was the case, even if the killer was mentally disturbed, he would need to have a good reason to kill them. This may will only be in his own head and hard to understand to anyone else so it's possible. But I'm not sure how detached from reality he could've been if only for the simple reason that his murders showed planning based on what he's wearing and what he brings with him and the fact that he both patches himself and runs away. He can't have been stupid enough to let a serious wound bleed out/get infected OR hang around until the police showed up.

Ultimately, re: the location, I'm torn about it. On the one hand, as you rightly say, a house in that setting in Tokyo is a rarity. Lots of shadows in the park and the killer must have been able to bet that he would've had the time to shimmy up to the window without being seen. On the other hand, blood relatives lived literally next door. The house across the street was also occupied. How did the killer factor in that he wouldn't be seen climbing through the window? Let alone that the screams wouldn't give him away once he started stabbing? If he WAS watching the family, he also would've seen Haruko and An Irie living next door, the other neighbours in the area...
 
Another is the element of "some people, criminals, are ready and able to initiate severe violence. Most of us aren't and especially when we aren't expecting it, can barely muster the strength and wits to respond with severe violence. We are wired that way. The people who are willing to not only use tremendous violence, but who are willing to initiate it, have the upper hand.
Very, very well said.

Thankfully most of us as humans are not hard wired to go from "at rest" to hand to hand, "kill or be killed" in seconds. If we were, there would probably be alot more people on "hair triggers" and alot more violence.

Ironically, your references to "criminals being ready" works both ways.

One of the very few subgroups of people that I have seen who are capable of going immediately from "chilling" to "maim, or be maimed" hand to hand defensive violence were, ironically, criminals being attacked by other predators.

But, as you implied, the same readiness to initiate violence also allows for a rapid response via experience, being "hard wired" to violence, or both.
 
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Something occurred to me while listening to the podcast this morning, although unless I missed it it was not directly discussed.

With the amount of noise that must have been going on during the murders, the fact that the killer stuck around rather than bailing immediately afterward makes it, at least to me, extremely likely that he knew about the soundproofing in the house. It’s obviously not a certainty but I’d say the odds he knew that are 90%.

I’m not sure how long that soundproofing had been in place, but regardless, the list of people who knew that couldn’t possibly be that long even if they found that out second-hand.
 
Something occurred to me while listening to the podcast this morning, although unless I missed it it was not directly discussed.

With the amount of noise that must have been going on during the murders, the fact that the killer stuck around rather than bailing immediately afterward makes it, at least to me, extremely likely that he knew about the soundproofing in the house. It’s obviously not a certainty but I’d say the odds he knew that are 90%.

I’m not sure how long that soundproofing had been in place, but regardless, the list of people who knew that couldn’t possibly be that long even if they found that out second-hand.
This has always been a mystery to me. I always assumed that the soundproofing between the two houses created a total void. And it was this that explained no reports of screaming etc. I can't really get into a huge amount of detail until the podcast is totally released BUT I will say this.

If the relatives next door report a banging sound (the TMPD later worked it was the fold-up ladder to the attic being thrown back into place) how did they not hear any screaming? Are we to believe that he stabbed to death three people and not one of them made a peep? It's possible, I guess -- maybe they were in shock? Still, the killer cut himself quite badly for starters. AND there was a delay between his initial attack on Yasuko and Niina upstairs and then the second attack with a new knife. Not to mention that Mikio ended up at the bottom of the stairs, presumably being pushed or falling down them after being stabbed. During all of this -- nobody made a single sound?

From what I've said, you can probably work out that the soundproofing between the two houses wasn't as impermeable as you might assume... Draw your own conclusions!
 
Something occurred to me while listening to the podcast this morning, although unless I missed it it was not directly discussed.

With the amount of noise that must have been going on during the murders, the fact that the killer stuck around rather than bailing immediately afterward makes it, at least to me, extremely likely that he knew about the soundproofing in the house. It’s obviously not a certainty but I’d say the odds he knew that are 90%.

I’m not sure how long that soundproofing had been in place, but regardless, the list of people who knew that couldn’t possibly be that long even if they found that out second-hand.
And thanks for your thoughts, dub!
 
This has always been a mystery to me. I always assumed that the soundproofing between the two houses created a total void. And it was this that explained no reports of screaming etc. I can't really get into a huge amount of detail until the podcast is totally released BUT I will say this.

If the relatives next door report a banging sound (the TMPD later worked it was the fold-up ladder to the attic being thrown back into place) how did they not hear any screaming? Are we to believe that he stabbed to death three people and not one of them made a peep? It's possible, I guess -- maybe they were in shock? Still, the killer cut himself quite badly for starters. AND there was a delay between his initial attack on Yasuko and Niina upstairs and then the second attack with a new knife. Not to mention that Mikio ended up at the bottom of the stairs, presumably being pushed or falling down them after being stabbed. During all of this -- nobody made a single sound?

From what I've said, you can probably work out that the soundproofing between the two houses wasn't as impermeable as you might assume... Draw your own conclusions!
For sure. That’s a little off to the side of my point, but might have additional relevance—did the killer know about the soundproofing, but didn’t know specifically how effective it was or was not? That actually might narrow down the list a little further.

Also in listening to the podcast, I wondered about the people next door “hearing” the ladder. Were they truly HEARING the impact? Or were they just FEELING the impact due to the wood frame house?

Probably the former/both but it was something I wondered about.
 
For sure. That’s a little off to the side of my point, but might have additional relevance—did the killer know about the soundproofing, but didn’t know specifically how effective it was or was not? That actually might narrow down the list a little further.

Also in listening to the podcast, I wondered about the people next door “hearing” the ladder. Were they truly HEARING the impact? Or were they just FEELING the impact due to the wood frame house?

Probably the former/both but it was something I wondered about.
Here's the problem with knowing about the soundproofing between the house. It would require some kind of connection to either one of the families: either personal or professional. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say it's impossible the TMPD made any mistakes. But at the same time, given they've (supposedly) put 282,000 personnel on the case, I have to think that if the connection was WITHIN the Miyazawa's circle, they would've found that man by now.

So, while a personal reason is a far more convincing MOTIVE for killing these human beings. It seems hard to believe that he could be close enough to hate them that much (or whatever the motive) and for the TMPD to just overlook him. Meaning that it's more likely he didn't know about the soundproofing. Again, I can't get into massive amounts of detail here but the logistics for soundproofing that can block out all sound between two nearby houses with wooden frames... As you can imagine, that's not a commonplace house installation. Let alone, hearing/feeling the impact of the fold-up ladder but hearing nobody falling down the stairs, or coming down the ladder, or going up the ladder, or presumably struggling. Ultimately, I think either the killer got extremely lucky. Or he's extremely savvy and knew what he could get away with ahead of time. And I tend not to believe too quickly in the super slick Hannibal Lecter types that can get away with murder so easily (especially when you take into account all of the 'mistakes' he makes in the house itself).

Of course, another possibility is that the TMPD did NOT overlook him -- it could be that they have a good idea of who did it but, for whatever reason, can't build a legal bridge between the evidence in the house and the suspect.
 
Here's the problem with knowing about the soundproofing between the house. It would require some kind of connection to either one of the families: either personal or professional. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say it's impossible the TMPD made any mistakes. But at the same time, given they've (supposedly) put 282,000 personnel on the case, I have to think that if the connection was WITHIN the Miyazawa's circle, they would've found that man by now.

So, while a personal reason is a far more convincing MOTIVE for killing these human beings. It seems hard to believe that he could be close enough to hate them that much (or whatever the motive) and for the TMPD to just overlook him. Meaning that it's more likely he didn't know about the soundproofing. Again, I can't get into massive amounts of detail here but the logistics for soundproofing that can block out all sound between two nearby houses with wooden frames... As you can imagine, that's not a commonplace house installation. Let alone, hearing/feeling the impact of the fold-up ladder but hearing nobody falling down the stairs, or coming down the ladder, or going up the ladder, or presumably struggling. Ultimately, I think either the killer got extremely lucky. Or he's extremely savvy and knew what he could get away with ahead of time. And I tend not to believe too quickly in the super slick Hannibal Lecter types that can get away with murder so easily (especially when you take into account all of the 'mistakes' he makes in the house itself).

Of course, another possibility is that the TMPD did NOT overlook him -- it could be that they have a good idea of who did it but, for whatever reason, can't build a legal bridge between the evidence in the house and the suspect.
That’s a really good point, and it is hard to reconcile.

I agree 100% that this wasn’t some “slick Hannibal Lecter” type and there was a massive element of luck in getting away with this. But also even with that in mind, it seems unfathomable to me that someone—no matter how bumbling—would stick around after a crime like that knowing there are likely to be people directly next door unless they had a very good reason for it.

So what are those scenarios?

1. They knew about the soundproofing, at least to some degree.

2. They had another objective at the house, such as finding something there.

3. Their hand injury was so bad that it HAD to be their first priority following the murders, and after nobody showed up by the time it was patched up they figured nobody heard anything.

I hadn’t considered scenario 3 until now, but the more I think about it the more it feels plausible.

Any other possibilities you all can think of?
 
Nick, I listened to the 3rd and 4th episodes. Having talked to the detective involved in this case, how do they feel about solving this case? Do they hope they will eventually find the killer and bring justice to the Miyazawa family?
 
That’s a really good point, and it is hard to reconcile.

I agree 100% that this wasn’t some “slick Hannibal Lecter” type and there was a massive element of luck in getting away with this. But also even with that in mind, it seems unfathomable to me that someone—no matter how bumbling—would stick around after a crime like that knowing there are likely to be people directly next door unless they had a very good reason for it.

So what are those scenarios?

1. They knew about the soundproofing, at least to some degree.

2. They had another objective at the house, such as finding something there.

3. Their hand injury was so bad that it HAD to be their first priority following the murders, and after nobody showed up by the time it was patched up they figured nobody heard anything.

I hadn’t considered scenario 3 until now, but the more I think about it the more it feels plausible.

Any other possibilities you all can think of?

That's a great point, yeah.

The sticking around is possibly the strangest choice he makes out of A LOT of strange choices. I mean it's quite possible he's highly disturbed or that his reasons for carrying out these murders wouldn't make sense to an average person. But he's not totally stupid, his actions prove that. 1) he patches himself up, seemingly understanding infection and hygiene. 2) he doesn't let himself get caught, even if he does run a high risk by hanging around after the murders. 3) he doesn't turn himself in and never pops up on police radar again. So, all of that suggests some clear self-preservation tendencies.

And we accept he understands self-preservation, he must have therefore understood risk. No matter how dumb or lucky the guy is, he had to have known that carrying out four murders and hanging around is a big risk. Especially with a house next door. So, to answer your question:

1. He knew about soundproofing but hadn't actually tested its capabilities. Because, without getting into spoilers, you can take it from me that it WOULDN'T have blocked out screaming or banging against walls. PLUS, even if he does want to rely on the soundproofing, how does he know nobody will phone the cops in the heat of the moment. Or a passer-by will see something through the window. Or someone will run out of the door in the middle of the attack. There are just so many things that can go wrong, that he would have had to have been MAJORLY confident if the soundproofing was his safety blanket. Or, as discussed, not smart. Also possible.

2.If he wanted something specific from the house, that would better explain why he's willing to accept all that risk. But here's the problem: no family members could identity anything missing except money. And as discussed in the podcast, I'm not buying money as his motive. So we'd have to be talking about something the family had that nobody else knew about or could fathom. That leaves a sexual motive, of course. I can't talk about that at this point but you can probably guess that for one reason or another, it hasn't solved the case for me.

3. Makes a lot of sense. We do know the blood loss was significant. That might well have sent him into shock, or made him extremely tired or compromised his decision-making (assuming that was in good shape to start with). However, the injury wasn't enough to stop him finishing the job after Mikio and Rei were dead. Or stop him from searching the house and filling a bathtub with water which he then crammed full of objects. Or going through their personal items. Or logging on to their ice cream. Or eating their melon. (Both with one hand). Or drinking their barley tea. He did rest on the couch so that could point to him being quite badly hurt. The blood tells us he can't have been feeling great. Especially when the adrenaline thins out. But his actions don't necessarily square with a badly-hurt man.

4. Given his actions are so illogical, I had always assumed there might be some kind of substance going on in there. Thing is, the blood and stool both reject the presence of drugs in his system.

5. The last possibility I can think of right now is timing. He had a train to catch. Or a plane. Or a curfew. Or he was meeting someone. Given the injury, he couldn't walk around at night. So, he figures he'll kill time in the house. As you say, if nobody has kicked up a fuss yet, he figures he's gotten away with it. The fact that he dresses up in the father's clothes seems to point to this. After all, if he walks out of the house at 1:30am, why bother changing at all? Why not just walk out in your own gear, it's not like the blood is going to show up so late at night. It seems to suggest he felt it was safer to lose them altogether -- was he anticipating being seen? An airport or associates or a family? I think it's quite possible he was manufacturing an alibi -- maybe not for police -- maybe for a girlfriend, even. Either way, if he comes home in the middle of the night, bleeding from a hand injury, that could create more problems for him than just staying in the house until daylight or whatever time he left.
 
Nick, I listened to the 3rd and 4th episodes. Having talked to the detective involved in this case, how do they feel about solving this case? Do they hope they will eventually find the killer and bring justice to the Miyazawa family?
What they say officially is that they will not give up. The detective I've been talking to at length is now retired so I want to make clear that his opinions were only his and not that officially of the TMPD.

That said, it does seem as if DNA and evolving technology is the way forward. So, it's hard to answer but I do think there is a degree of positivity. The latter episodes will shed more light on this and my own thoughts about what they've done, where we go from here. Thanks for listening, ck!
 
But also even with that in mind, it seems unfathomable to me that someone—no matter how bumbling—would stick around after a crime like that knowing there are likely to be people directly next door unless they had a very good reason for it.

So what are those scenarios?

1. They knew about the soundproofing, at least to some degree.

2. They had another objective at the house, such as finding something there.

3. Their hand injury was so bad that it HAD to be their first priority following the murders, and after nobody showed up by the time it was patched up they figured nobody heard anything.

I hadn’t considered scenario 3 until now, but the more I think about it the more it feels plausible.

Any other possibilities you all can think of?

Maybe he just figured if anyone else showed up, he would kill them too. No big deal. If you've already killed four, including children, what's one more?

Maybe? MOO.
 
Maybe he just figured if anyone else showed up, he would kill them too. No big deal. If you've already killed four, including children, what's one more?

Maybe? MOO.
And it's quite possible he had watched the family. If he did, it's likely he had seen who was living next door. So yes, maybe he figured nobody next posed much of a threat either if they did come knocking.

How he assumed that nobody would pick up a phone though...
 
And it's quite possible he had watched the family. If he did, it's likely he had seen who was living next door. So yes, maybe he figured nobody next posed much of a threat either if they did come knocking.

How he assumed that nobody would pick up a phone though...
Sorry, yeah I now realize my post wasn’t really clear on this.

I was talking more about the people next door calling the cops and THEM showing up, not the people next door coming by themselves.
 
Sorry, yeah I now realize my post wasn’t really clear on this.

I was talking more about the people next door calling the cops and THEM showing up, not the people next door coming by themselves.
Yeah, I've never understood that. Does he just assume everyone will be asleep? He believes he can pull it off silently?

There is actually one potential explanation. I wish I could open that up but unfortunately I can't get into it here for legal reasons.
 
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