Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[Pimlipo]

Correction: That just HASN'T happened**...

Are you planning on contacting either the suspect, people known to the suspect or those investigating the crime regarding the suspect? Perhaps as a follow up on your podcast. Sorry for the questions if they are unanswerable, I’m just desperate to see justice in this. ( almost as much as you )

 

[fridaybaker]

Question for the scientifically-inclined:

Let's imagine I get the DNA of the person of interest. How significant would it be if he shared the same haplogroup as the killer?

I think I'm right in saying that for O-M122 -- O would be Asian, then the M122 part shows the position on the 'family tree' of the human race. So would them both being O-M122 basically just mean their ancestors originate from a similar place on the map? Basically meaning this coincidence is useless?

FacelessPodcast, were you ever able to get an answer to your question?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Are you planning on contacting either the suspect, people known to the suspect or those investigating the crime regarding the suspect? Perhaps as a follow up on your podcast. Sorry for the questions if they are unanswerable, I’m just desperate to see justice in this. ( almost as much as you )

I can't really get into a direct answer there, I'm afraid, Pimlipo. But let's just say that I'm not going to simply leave the mystery where it lies...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

FacelessPodcast, were you ever able to get an answer to your question?

There were some good answers, friday! But I'm such a science dunce that I didn't really understand it.

 

[fridaybaker]

There were some good answers, friday! But I'm such a science dunce that I didn't really understand it.

Ah! A fellow “science dunce”. Glad to have company!

 

[Cryptic]

My understanding of life on foreign U.S. military posts/bases, is that often the soldiers and their families, and I suppose civilian workers as well, have little interaction with the general population. Children go to separate schools, etc. However, maybe I’m off base on that. Could Ann’s son have gone to school with your suspect?

I grew up on US military bases and..... Your impressions are not "off base"- at all.

As you suspect, US bases overseas are miniature US islands. Meaningful social interaction between people on the base and locals is usually minimal. This would espescially be so in Germany or mainland Japan where the high cost of entertainment, in addition to language differences, further limits the amount of contact.

There are, of course, exceptions to the general norm. Some servicemen develop an interest in the local culture. Others are just more adventuresome or curious than the general norm.

In regards to schooling, some bases have an exchange program with local schools. US children with an aptitude for languages, good grades and good behavior are then selected to attend nearby local schools.

Likewise, US civilian contractors on US bases (there are a good number of those) do not have the customary 3-4 year duty rotation of US servicemen. Thus, they have more time to establish local ties.

Marriage to a local could well include the opportunity for children to attend local schools. Likewise, a longer term contractor would also have more time to find other programs / opportunities for their children to attend local schools if they wanted them to.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ah! A fellow “science dunce”. Glad to have company!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Hi everyone, sorry for the radio silence -- hard few days / months. That said, I came across something very interesting:

［世田谷一家殺害２０年］＜中＞ぼやけていた輪郭くっきり、ある男の画像「鮮明化」

The first time I've found an explicit mention of the Tokyo MPD looking into the 'foreigner angle' beyond just Korean shoes. Of course, it does mention that but also discusses APIS as well as using the word "white". (If your google translate is acting up, it's towards the end of the article -- 'shiro').

That's exciting for me because 1) it's a pretty recent article that acknowledges that this IS a viable route for clearing the case for the TMPD. And 2) It seems to signal their openness to the killer being non-Japanese.

To be clear, I don't know for sure that the killer is domestic or not, it's just up until now, it's seemed that the TMPD had discounted the idea of a foreign killer beyond a Korean national based solely on shoes (pardon the pun). Now, seeing as we know they ran fingerprints through the national database in Korea and got zip, that seems to circle back to the idea of an ethnic Korean with another nationality... Food for thought!

 

[annpats]

Where did the ethnic Korean idea come from again, can someone remind me?

Do we know type was the blood found at the scene? That could be helpful.

Some blood types are more common in certain races.

For instance:

only 0.1% of Koreans are A negative. But 26% of Koreans are B positive.

For English, 35% have O positive, but only 1% have type AB negative.

Black and Hispanic races will also differ again, as will other type of Asians.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Where did the ethnic Korean idea come from again, can someone remind me?

Do we know type was the blood found at the scene? That could be helpful.

Some blood types are more common in certain races.

For instance:

only 0.1% of Koreans are A negative. But 26% of Koreans are B positive.

For English, 35% have O positive, but only 1% have type AB negative.

Black and Hispanic races will also differ again, as will other type of Asians.

The Korean link is widely reported in the news. But this is just because the genetic marker found in his blood is apparently found in 1 in 4 Koreans, 1 in 10 Chinese, and 1 in 13 Japanese. Add to that, the fact that police seemed to link his shoes back to Korea (his size was not on sale in Japan). And we know that the killer is Blood type A.

Now, there are problems with this.

1) footprints in blood is essentially nonsense evidence, as I understand it. The former Chief of this case told me that detectives couldn't decide whether the killer was the size up (unavailable in Japan) or the size down (it was available). Also, in my podcast, Slazenger refused to speak with us. But it's never been confirmed if the shoes were on sale beyond Korea. It seems as if they were manufactured there, though.

2) The DNA is just a *chance* of his ethnicity. In my podcast, we reveal that the 'foreign' angle was only released by mistake. Essentially, it was leaked. So, the 'Mediterranean' heritage is from mito DNA. He could have a Spanish or Italian grandparent. Or it could be a link going back 700 years. Essentially, telling us nothing.

 

[fridaybaker]

Wasn’t there something else, though? Something about his clothing and where it had been washed? Like that type of water was only found in Korea and a small, out of the way place in Japan?

And, we don’t know if the blood is A or negative?

If Japanese LE is open to looking outside the country, especially in the U.S., that would open up the familial genealogy to track him down via family tree, wouldn’t it?

I want this guy to be found. Before he’s 90!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Wasn’t there something else, though? Something about his clothing and where it had been washed? Like that type of water was only found in Korea and a small, out of the way place in Japan?

And, we don’t know if the blood is A or negative?

If Japanese LE is open to looking outside the country, especially in the U.S., that would open up the familial genealogy to track him down via family tree, wouldn’t it?

I want this guy to be found. Before he’s 90!

Yes, that water hardness thing has been posted here much earlier in the thread somewhere. Though this has never been mentioned by the Tokyo MPD and it's not on their online information appeal page either. Also, I recall googling water hardness throughout Japan off the back of that post and there seemed to be variety throughout the nation.

We don't know with -+ re: Type A, sadly.

And if the TMPD are investigating in the US, they would still need to put into place some kind of legal framework to use familial genealogy as it just wouldn't fly in Japan as things stand. The ethical / privacy question for starters is a barrier. However, I can't imagine it would stop them from linking him to the murders and then simply getting him on his fingerprints instead or something like that.

 

[Charlot123]

Where did the ethnic Korean idea come from again, can someone remind me?

Do we know type was the blood found at the scene? That could be helpful.

Some blood types are more common in certain races.

For instance:

only 0.1% of Koreans are A negative. But 26% of Koreans are B positive.

For English, 35% have O positive, but only 1% have type AB negative.

Black and Hispanic races will also differ again, as will other type of Asians.

If I am not mistaken, type A blood group offers some resistance in cases of plague, hence it accumulated in Western Europe in medieval time. With the immigration, not anymore.

Type B gives some relative protection against cholera, hence it is called "Asian".

Type 0 is statistically the highest probability everywhere.

Both types A or B are statistically possible in mixed-ethnicity kids because it is accordingly A0 or AA (likewise, B0 or BB).

Now: this is total hearsay but I heard it from a "lab genius" in my young years. Type B group was incredibly uncommon in post-colonial British Isles. So uncommon that one spy was "guessed" this way. The legend was perfect but the blood group, B. I post it here as a funny fact that I could neither prove nor disprove because I don't know who it was. Maybe some mole, maybe, it is just urban legend of no importance today because we have DNA.

 

[annpats]

True @Charlot123, we do have DNA.

But in this case it hasn't been of any help at all.

At least blood group could, in theory, narrow it down to a race/ethnicity.

 

[Charlot123]

True @Charlot123, we do have DNA.

But in this case it hasn't been of any help at all.

At least blood group could, in theory, narrow it down to a race/ethnicity.

I just hope the Japanese authorities will change their point of view on the situation. A very sick person killed two adults and two children. He is a threat to everyone.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I just hope the Japanese authorities will change their point of view on the situation. A very sick person killed two adults and two children. He is a threat to everyone.

From recent conversations, it does seem as if the TMPD are quietly reassessing. Without going into too much detail, they're open to seeking internships in the US at labs and so on. I think this is very positive.

To reiterate, any infringement on privacy is going to be massively unpopular in Japan (broadly-speaking). Given crime rates are so low, let alone murders, giving police *yet more powers* is unlikely to attract a huge amount of support beyond those who are directly impacted. The police in Japan already have ridiculously wide-sweeping powers as it is. I've never heard of police with more power outside of totalitarian regimes.

Perhaps some kind of legal framework could be put in place where special exceptions are made on a case by case basis. Certainly, the Miyazawa family should be first in line in such a world.

 

[AC4RD]

...
Perhaps some kind of legal framework could be put in place where special exceptions are made on a case by case basis. Certainly, the Miyazawa family should be first in line in such a world.

Case-by case? That makes sense to me. IIRC, when Peter Scully was finally arrested, there was talk of restoring the death penalty in Australia for that one particular case. (Which would have been too good for him IMO.)

Peter Scully - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Captain Hastings]

Just checking up on this and pleased you have a lead faceless! Id love you to crack this case!

 

[Charlot123]

True @Charlot123, we do have DNA.

But in this case it hasn't been of any help at all.

At least blood group could, in theory, narrow it down to a race/ethnicity.

@annpats, not really. Example: I am type B group. B0, that is. Got it from my Russian dad. He has 4% of Asian DNA, and while in my dreamy days I think it came from Ainu, IRL I understand that it is probably some Siberian ethnicity. My husband is also B0, and in his DNA, there is zero Asian component. Whatever ancestors he has are spread from Corsica to Lithuania. But ethnically, we are all Russians. Two people of with B blood group.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Couple of interesting developments (though not related to the crime itself).

Some kids break into the house as a dare
1: https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASRCR3FS8RCRUTIL002.html

The Chief and Co. put on 're-enactment play'
2: Play Held with Hope for Solution of 2000 Setagaya Family Murder

"...Also in the play, staged at a facility in the ward Saturday, was a scene calling for the establishment of a legal framework for the police to use in their investigations the DNA of a man believed to be the suspect left at the crime scene. Takeshi Tsuchida, former chief of the Seijo Police Station of Tokyo's Metropolitan Police Department in Setagaya, started planning the recitation play around summer this year."