Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

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tes1984 said:
'

The lack of semen amongst 16,000 samples is also bizarre. The only other first time crime of this magnitude that I can think of is the first crime of Dennis Rader the BTK murderer. In the mid 70s he killed a family of four in his first known crime, then targeted adult women for the next couple of decades before being caught by familial DNA and his own stupidity in contacting the papers after years of silence.
Rader left semen at the crime scene. Criminologists have speculated that more recent killers use the toilet to flush away such evidence.
I can't see this killer leaving his blood, saliva, and clothes, and shittting everywhere, yet hiding a sexual element (his semen).
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RSFB

It might have pointed at his age. Puberty is over at different times. If he were younger, say, 14, it is not always possible. Depends on the development.
 
.
FacelessPodcast said:
As for changing his clothes. My assumption was that this was always driven by necessity. He wore a white shirt to the house, for starters. He would've been covered in blood. Both belonging to the family and himself. He simply dresses in Mikio's clothes before leaving (except for his own trousers -presumably dark- and his shoes -he wore a much bigger size than Mikio and therefore had no choice. As for a teenager staying out all night, I myself did this plenty of times by saying I was staying at one friend or another's house. The person of interest I'm looking at had a girlfriend, for one thing. Plus, this assumes that his parents wouldn't have worked out his crimes afterwards. I think there's every chance, given the news coverage and the unmistakable injuries, that his parents might have realised he was the murderer. But faced with giving up their son to the police or sitting on a terrible secret, it's quite possible they went with the latter.
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Respectfully snipped for brevity.

White shirt, dark pants. Dark shoes. I saw the pictures of the clothes and can't make up my mind whether they are casual or "casual with a hint of festivity" given that it was NY eve.

Also, the sleeves, I read, were purple, but the total outlook, with the jacket on, white up and black down, might have looked more festive.

If I am not mistaken, and this is not anything that I can see on the photos, but didn't the Miyazawas eat pizza that night? If not, please disregard. If yes, I have a question.

Is there any specific way pizza deliverers would dress on a festive night in Japan? What do they use, bicycles, or cars? Could it be possible that the murderer delivered a pizza, then stayed in the area, then slipped back into the house? Just an idea - servers are usually unnoticeable.
 
One more thing. I looked back at "Mediterranean DNA", and even if mom was directly from that area - you know what it means? Could be Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Algerian, Tunisian, from Morocco, etc etc. The kid could look very differently. He could have totally merged with the locals, or stood out a lot.
 
Whenever I follow a case and the anniversary of the crime approaches I always think of the criminal out there who is also likely thinking of that day. I imagine his behaviour changed after the murders and right now if he’s alive he’s also acting a bit differently.

I think someone close to him from the year 2000 might also be thinking of the approaching date. I hope they get the courage to speak up.
 
Charlot123 said:
The post by the animals-killer being "our killer" is not impossible, only the animal killer enjoys animals dying, and the Setagaya killer enjoys staying in the house with the dead family. I feel it is more like "if I can't have live friends whom I can visit, let me visit their house when they are dead".

I don't think ethnicity plays a role; I assume the killer has to speak Japanese well enough to dream of Japanese friends, and IMHO he identifies more with the Asians.

(A totally unrelated question, how are Eurasians viewed in Japan? They are very popular in US and China, I don't know the Japanese situation, though).

Another question: if he lives in the US, how come he did not carry on killing? A dog and humsn killer would continue. I suspect, he got a girlfriend and later, a family of his own. (This is why I think it was Jake Patterson's type, sadistic but motivated by the wish to steal friendship).

(However: could the Mojave desert be the place where he killed first?)
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*To be clear, the person who made those posts on the forum about killing animals is NOT the murderer. The TMPD found the person posting and ruled him out.

*I also believe the killer spoke at least some Japanese. He certainly had enough to log on to a computer and seemingly trawl through documents in the house.

*During the making of the podcast, David Canter said that it's a myth that once someone murders, they are driven by the compulsion to do it over and over. Many people are terrified after killing and keep that secret with them forever. This is supported by the fact that half of homicides in the US go unsolved. There are many people walking around mowing their lawn, living out their lives, who will never kill again -- their neighbours and families none the wiser. In terms of the our murderer, maybe he got it out of his system. Maybe he didn't intend to kill them in the first place and the situation got out of hand on the night. Or maybe it was personal and so he's never felt the need to kill again.

Without getting into detail about the man I suspect, I would also theorise that he likely has far more to lose now than he did 23 years ago back when, almost certainly, even if he knew his actions would have consequences, he wasn't capacitated to fully understand them.
 
Lexiintoronto said:
Whenever I follow a case and the anniversary of the crime approaches I always think of the criminal out there who is also likely thinking of that day. I imagine his behaviour changed after the murders and right now if he’s alive he’s also acting a bit differently.

I think someone close to him from the year 2000 might also be thinking of the approaching date. I hope they get the courage to speak up.
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I'm sure it won't surprise you but it's the same for me, Lex. I share that hope.
 
Charlot123 said:
White shirt, dark pants. Dark shoes. I saw the pictures of the clothes and can't make up my mind whether they are casual or "casual with a hint of festivity" given that it was NY eve.

Also, the sleeves, I read, were purple, but the total outlook, with the jacket on, white up and black down, might have looked more festive.

If I am not mistaken, and this is not anything that I can see on the photos, but didn't the Miyazawas eat pizza that night? If not, please disregard. If yes, I have a question.

Is there any specific way pizza deliverers would dress on a festive night in Japan? What do they use, bicycles, or cars? Could it be possible that the murderer delivered a pizza, then stayed in the area, then slipped back into the house? Just an idea - servers are usually unnoticeable.
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NB: we don't know what pants he was wearing, their dark on the mannequin as he never left them (unlikely almost everything else). His shoes were white. It also wasn't NYE on the night of the murder, it was the night before. To me, there is nothing festive about the clothes. Casual, yes. I think he grabbed something to keep warm while at the same time, to try and blend it and not be noticed.

RE: the pizza, your comment is the first time I've ever heard of that.
 
FacelessPodcast said:
NB: we don't know what pants he was wearing, their dark on the mannequin as he never left them (unlikely almost everything else). His shoes were white. It also wasn't NYE on the night of the murder, it was the night before. To me, there is nothing festive about the clothes. Casual, yes. I think he grabbed something to keep warm while at the same time, to try and blend it and not be noticed.

RE: the pizza, your comment is the first time I've ever heard of that.
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I can swear I read about the family ordering pizza that evening. I remembered because it is not a typical Japanese food for me. It is not in Wikipedia, either. But it was when the description of the family’s last evening together was. I read and heard so much, I won’t remember where I saw it. If it is not true, please let me know so that i don’t follow a wrong path, but potentially any food delivery could be unnoticed.
 
Richardrli said:
@FacelessPodcast Nicolas, I’m curious as to whether or not you have seen the actual crime scene photos and/or footage of this gruesome quadruple homicide. Is this something the TMPD have shared with you or possibly reveal to potential sleuths?
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If you go back through the thread, you'll find a few limited images. There is a law pertaining to crime scene photos in Japan, so the images themselves are either graphical renderings or heavily greyed out. But they'll give you some idea
 
Charlot123 said:
I can swear I read about the family ordering pizza that evening. I remembered because it is not a typical Japanese food for me. It is not in Wikipedia, either. But it was when the description of the family’s last evening together was. I read and heard so much, I won’t remember where I saw it. If it is not true, please let me know so that i don’t follow a wrong path, but potentially any food delivery could be unnoticed.
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Like I say, Charlot. I've never heard of the pizza thing before. I've done extensive reading on the case and this is the first time pizza has been mentioned. Of course, it's quite possible you simply read something I have not.

But assuming it were true, I don't think it would be possible the TMPD could find a pizza box in the house and not trace it back to the pizza delivery guy if he were involved in the murders
 
FacelessPodcast said:
*To be clear, the person who made those posts on the forum about killing animals is NOT the murderer. The TMPD found the person posting and ruled him out.

*I also believe the killer spoke at least some Japanese. He certainly had enough to log on to a computer and seemingly trawl through documents in the house.

*During the making of the podcast, David Canter said that it's a myth that once someone murders, they are driven by the compulsion to do it over and over. Many people are terrified after killing and keep that secret with them forever. This is supported by the fact that half of homicides in the US go unsolved. There are many people walking around mowing their lawn, living out their lives, who will never kill again -- their neighbours and families none the wiser. In terms of the our murderer, maybe he got it out of his system. Maybe he didn't intend to kill them in the first place and the situation got out of hand on the night. Or maybe it was personal and so he's never felt the need to kill again.

Without getting into detail about the man I suspect, I would also theorise that he likely has far more to lose now than he did 23 years ago back when, almost certainly, even if he knew his actions would have consequences, he wasn't capacitated to fully understand them.
Click to expand...
Another year has gone by with no resolution. We don't even know if the killer is still alive. There must be at least one person who knows about the killer: a girlfriend, a friend, a roommate,a family member, or a neighbor. They have to come forward to solve this case. TMPD's reward for any tips has not persuaded them so far. The killer jumped into the house, knowing beforehand who lived in it. It is very risky to barge into someone's house without knowing about the number of people in the house. There could be 10 strong men living in the house.

He had it all figured out before the rampage. A knife was enough. He decided to kill the boy with his bare hands despite having a knife in his possession. It is hard to believe he had no prior experience killing someone by strangulation, at least. It is surprising that the killer's fingerprints are not in the government's database. When you get a driver's license, you are fingerprinted. The killer, assuming he is still around, did not make an attempt to acquire a driver's license.
 
ck932 said:
Another year has gone by with no resolution. We don't even know if the killer is still alive. There must be at least one person who knows about the killer: a girlfriend, a friend, a roommate,a family member, or a neighbor. They have to come forward to solve this case. TMPD's reward for any tips has not persuaded them so far. The killer jumped into the house, knowing beforehand who lived in it. It is very risky to barge into someone's house without knowing about the number of people in the house. There could be 10 strong men living in the house.

He had it all figured out before the rampage. A knife was enough. He decided to kill the boy with his bare hands despite having a knife in his possession. It is hard to believe he had no prior experience killing someone by strangulation, at least. It is surprising that the killer's fingerprints are not in the government's database. When you get a driver's license, you are fingerprinted. The killer, assuming he is still around, did not make an attempt to acquire a driver's license.
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I agree with you, ck. I think there is at least one person who knows who the killer is. Very rare is any one person a total void of friendship and family. The injuries he would have been carrying would've made it impossible to claim he fell over or a simple accident. We know for a fact he lost a significant quantity of blood that night. I also am inclined to believe he knew who would be in the house before entering, although this isn't certain by any means.

The knife actually wasn't enough seeing as it broke in Mikio's skull and he was forced to get a second knife from the kitchen. As for strangling Rei, I have always assumed this was done to make minimal noise. Though we don't know that for sure. RE: being fingerprinted in Japan, I've heard conflicting things. At any rate, the killer wasn't on their database, nor the Korean government database, despite having Korean DNA it seems. To me, that likely points to a third country...
 
Even if the murderer never killed again, he needs to be unmasked. For the two grandmothers
(Attached is the 2021 article about paternal grandmother - she is grieving, too.)


Also. IMHO, it could be either “the third country” or Japan, we really don’t know. Logic doesn’t apply because, sorry, in any logical situation, DNA would have solved this case. The sand alone is not a proof, and any specialist makes mistakes. I don’t know that much about the Japanese soul, but in many books by Japanologists, it was specifically mentioned that apologizing is important. An example: if a driver hits anyone here, especially if it is the pedestrian fault, apologizing means acknowledgment of own fault. In Japan, it is a must, even if the pedestrian jumped in front of you. It is cultural. So - someone owes an apology, even if he has never killed again or is mentally incapacitated.

This being said, he can be living anywhere and be both Korean or Japanese or Japanese/Korean. It wouldn’t matter to me. What matters is closure.
 
Charlot123 said:
Also. IMHO, it could be either “the third country” or Japan, we really don’t know. Logic doesn’t apply because, sorry, in any logical situation, DNA would have solved this case. The sand alone is not a proof, and any specialist makes mistakes. I don’t know that much about the Japanese soul, but in many books by Japanologists, it was specifically mentioned that apologizing is important. An example: if a driver hits anyone here, especially if it is the pedestrian fault, apologizing means acknowledgment of own fault. In Japan, it is a must, even if the pedestrian jumped in front of you. It is cultural. So - someone owes an apology, even if he has never killed again or is mentally incapacitated.

This being said, he can be living anywhere and be both Korean or Japanese or Japanese/Korean. It wouldn’t matter to me. What matters is closure.
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I agree, the killer could still be in Japan. But given it's been 23 years of silence, given that the TMPD think he was as young as 15 on the night in question, given that he has never resurfaced again in any way, and given that the Chief has an order for all unidentified male bodies in Japan to be fingerprinted against the killer -- I think it's more likely he simply left Japan. If the TMPD are right that he was very young, he's had to go more than two decades off the grid. I find that hard to imagine, though of course still possible. It's also possible that he killed himself or died in Japan and was simply never found. There are countless inhabited islands around Japan, for example. But again, I think it's more likely he simply left as opposed to being some Jason Bourne type.

RE: the sand, it isn't proof alone but it is crucial. Google Lorna Dawson. Entire murders have been solved on this kind of evidence. It IS possible for the TMPD to analyse that sand and know where the killer had been BEFORE killing the family. It is NOT possible to confuse sand from the Miura Peninsula with sand from the Mojave Desert, even if they do share elements.

RE: the Japanese soul, I don't personally believe in such a notion. And it's a country of 127 million people, there's room for any number of differing attitudes. Even if the local culture is, as you rightly say, to apologise. If the killer is born without the capacity for empathy or contrition, then I don't think local customs will have any bearing on his actions. Particularly after so long of being free. Also, there's a good chance he would be executed for this crime. How many killers are going to give up their life to do the right thing?

So, to recap, yes it's possible he's living in Japan but I find that less likely. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE that he's living in Korea. He would have to have snuck into Korea somehow without alerting the local authorities or using an airport or sea port. He's not Jason Bourne. For me, the most likely scenario is that he's an American. It would explain his ability to disappear and also likely explain his possible Korean DNA. And to close, as you rightly say Charlot, what matters is closure. I don't believe he will be giving this to Setsuko Miyazawa. Certainly not by choice. He must be forced into the light. Here's hoping 2024 will be the year that brings such an outcome.
 
FacelessPodcast said:
I agree, the killer could still be in Japan. But given it's been 23 years of silence, given that the TMPD think he was as young as 15 on the night in question, given that he has never resurfaced again in any way, and given that the Chief has an order for all unidentified male bodies in Japan to be fingerprinted against the killer -- I think it's more likely he simply left Japan. If the TMPD are right that he was very young, he's had to go more than two decades off the grid. I find that hard to imagine, though of course still possible. It's also possible that he killed himself or died in Japan and was simply never found. There are countless inhabited islands around Japan, for example. But again, I think it's more likely he simply left as opposed to being some Jason Bourne type.

RE: the sand, it isn't proof alone but it is crucial. Google Lorna Dawson. Entire murders have been solved on this kind of evidence. It IS possible for the TMPD to analyse that sand and know where the killer had been BEFORE killing the family. It is NOT possible to confuse sand from the Miura Peninsula with sand from the Mojave Desert, even if they do share elements.

RE: the Japanese soul, I don't personally believe in such a notion. And it's a country of 127 million people, there's room for any number of differing attitudes. Even if the local culture is, as you rightly say, to apologise. If the killer is born without the capacity for empathy or contrition, then I don't think local customs will have any bearing on his actions. Particularly after so long of being free. Also, there's a good chance he would be executed for this crime. How many killers are going to give up their life to do the right thing?

So, to recap, yes it's possible he's living in Japan but I find that less likely. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE that he's living in Korea. He would have to have snuck into Korea somehow without alerting the local authorities or using an airport or sea port. He's not Jason Bourne. For me, the most likely scenario is that he's an American. It would explain his ability to disappear and also likely explain his possible Korean DNA. And to close, as you rightly say Charlot, what matters is closure. I don't believe he will be giving this to Setsuko Miyazawa. Certainly not by choice. He must be forced into the light. Here's hoping 2024 will be the year that brings such an outcome.
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I don’t expect him to apologize. Not sure he is an American, but if he is (and especially, from the base), it is better to help find him, as the gesture of compassion and apology to the two grieving families, than swipe it under the rug. I honestly think that the murderer is not normal, or dissociates, in short, he won’t get DP. I wonder if his diagnosis was missed by the family, and if anyone knows about him being the killer, they are scared that their afflicted beloved one doesn’t have the skills to survive in prison.
But, Nina would have been 31 now, probably married with kids. Rei, 27. If only just for them…

ETA: I think you are doing a very good thing, @FacelessPodcast, to keep the case alive.
 
As the clock approaches midnight in Japan on the 30th of December, I make my annual remembrance of the Miyazawas. 23 years have passed since the night they were taken. Niina would be into her 30s by now. Rei, in his late 20s. Maybe Mikio and Yasuko would even be grandparents by now. They were good, peaceful people in life. On this day, I quietly reflect on what was, and what might have been. And I hope that they soon know peace in death too.

Screen Shot 2020-03-19 at 18.23.23.png
 
japantoday.com

Setagaya family murders remain unsolved 23 years later

Police have renewed their appeal for any information from the public that might help solve the murders of a family of four in the house in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward 23 years ago. Last week, police handed out flyers appealing for information at Seijogakuenmae train station, as they have done each…
japantoday.com japantoday.com
 
ck932 said:
japantoday.com

Setagaya family murders remain unsolved 23 years later

Police have renewed their appeal for any information from the public that might help solve the murders of a family of four in the house in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward 23 years ago. Last week, police handed out flyers appealing for information at Seijogakuenmae train station, as they have done each…
japantoday.com japantoday.com
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"Three kinds of powdered fluorescent dye were found on the trainers and bag left at the scene." Wow. First time I've seen THAT detail.
 
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