ACTIVE SEARCH JAPAN - Patricia "Pattie" Wu-Murad, 60, US Citizen, on hiking trip Kumano Kodo Trail, didn't arr next stop Osaka, 10 Apr 2023

[neesaki]

7 to 9 hours of hiking is a long day, and one would reasonably expect to have to use the bathroom. On this trail, do people step off into a secluded area?

It would be hard to avoid doing that, IMO.

 

[Snoopster]

In reading a later update by the family on G-F-M, it seems that Japanese authorities were so impressed by Pattie's daughter that they are calling her (and treating her as) the search coordinator. The family is a bit taken aback by this as they don't have any expertise in search and they are emotionally involved. It sounds like they are disappointed by the leadership/initiative of the Japanese authorities.

This must be incredibly disheartening. If the family hadn't shown up there I'm wondering if anything further would have been done after the 3 short days of searching they did. (The latter 2 days of the 3-day search finished around 3 or 3:30 because staff had to commute back before the end of their work day.)

 

[Snoopster]

It would be hard to avoid doing that, IMO.

Absoutely. Luckily the trail traffic sounds like it is very low. But the point still stands, particularly for a woman.

 

[acutename]

was there any bad weather the day she went missing? I am thinking wet and then hypothermia...?
if she went on some other trail, and was physicaly OK, it seems that she would have called or texted
some one by now- she was supposdly a meticulous planner, so she would have known that she was off her itinerary.

 

[Snoopster]

was there any bad weather the day she went missing? I am thinking wet and then hypothermia...?
if she went on some other trail, and was physicaly OK, it seems that she would have called or texted
some one by now- she was supposdly a meticulous planner, so she would have known that she was off her itinerary.

There are likely micro climates in the area, but in a nearby city the day had a low of 7 celsius and a high of 18 celsius. So the temp wasn't extreme. (and it warmed up a few degrees in the days after) There also wasn't any precipitation. There had been a fair amount of rain back on April 7, but none since.
I don't think weather played a part.

 

[LadyL]

all I keep thinking about is Denise Thiem being murdered and the other women who claimed to be stalked and reported another abduction attempt on the Camino de Santiago in Spain

GUILTY - Spain - Denise Thiem, 40, U.S. traveler, Astorga, 4 April 2015

THE TSJ WILL DECIDE ON SEPTEMBER 5 ABOUT THE APPEAL OF THE MURDERER OF THE PEREGRINA Diario de León.es http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/provincia/tsj-decidira-5-septiembre-recurso-asesinato-peregrina_1178141.html The Supreme Court of Justice (TSJ) of Castilla y León will decide on 5...

www.websleuths.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

all I keep thinking about is Denise Thiem being murdered and the other women who claimed to be stalked and reported another abduction attempt on the Camino de Santiago in Spain

GUILTY - Spain - Denise Thiem, 40, U.S. traveler, Astorga, 4 April 2015

THE TSJ WILL DECIDE ON SEPTEMBER 5 ABOUT THE APPEAL OF THE MURDERER OF THE PEREGRINA Diario de León.es http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/provincia/tsj-decidira-5-septiembre-recurso-asesinato-peregrina_1178141.html The Supreme Court of Justice (TSJ) of Castilla y León will decide on 5...

www.websleuths.com

Chilling case! I am concerned that PM may have been stalked in cyberspace then in real life. I wonder if she mentioned any concerns to anyone?
MOO

 

[neesaki]

I keep thinking about the last time PM spoke to her husband. She told him she was going on a 4 day trek, and would probably be off line a few days.
So he didn’t think anything of it when he hadnt heard from her during that time. Yet during their search on the trails, he said they had cell service the entire time. So I wonder why she wouldn’t have contacted him if she did have service. Did she just assume she wouldn’t have cell service? Yet she didn’t contact him at all.

Then they learn she is missing. Maybe it’s just me, but it almost seems like more than a coincidence.

 

[ZaZara]

all I keep thinking about is Denise Thiem being murdered and the other women who claimed to be stalked and reported another abduction attempt on the Camino de Santiago in Spain

GUILTY - Spain - Denise Thiem, 40, U.S. traveler, Astorga, 4 April 2015

THE TSJ WILL DECIDE ON SEPTEMBER 5 ABOUT THE APPEAL OF THE MURDERER OF THE PEREGRINA Diario de León.es http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/provincia/tsj-decidira-5-septiembre-recurso-asesinato-peregrina_1178141.html The Supreme Court of Justice (TSJ) of Castilla y León will decide on 5...

www.websleuths.com

Denise Thiem... that thread has my name all over it. The report of the other woman turned out to be fake btw, a local told me that the woman wanted to hide a meeting with her lover.
More important is that Denise disappeared in an area that was dry, flat and wide open. A possible accident could be ruled out quickly, because she would have been found. Denise had plans to start a new life after the Camino, everybody knew about it, so that option could be ruled out too. Which left foul play as the most likely option.

The area where Pattie disappeared is very different with woods, ridges, rocks and rivers. SAR would have to do a lot of searching before an accident can be ruled out. IMO foul play cannot be excluded but the chances of a bad encounter are not high in comparison to an accident.

 

[Traymar]

I keep thinking about the last time PM spoke to her husband. She told him she was going on a 4 day trek, and would probably be off line a few days.
So he didn’t think anything of it when he hadnt heard from her during that time. Yet during their search on the trails, he said they had cell service the entire time. So I wonder why she wouldn’t have contacted him if she did have service. Did she just assume she wouldn’t have cell service? Yet she didn’t contact him at all.

Then they learn she is missing. Maybe it’s just me, but it almost seems like more than a coincidence.

It makes you wonder if maybe someone told her she wouldn't have service, and then she never had the chance to find out that wasn't the case. Maybe? MOO

 

[neesaki]

It makes you wonder if maybe someone told her she wouldn't have service, and then she never had the chance to find out that wasn't the case. Maybe? MOO

I know, right? I assume the owner of the hostel, that said he took her to the trailhead, was telling the truth.
But then it was pointed out later, the trailhead was, what… like a 1/4 mile away?

 

[Cryptic]

Chilling case! I am concerned that PM may have been stalked in cyberspace then in real life.

Regardign the possibility of criminal activity (rare in Japan, but humans are humans), I am thinking that...

Criminal activity could come from:

A. A fellow hiker
B A broad definition of "locals".

Some tourist locations in less developed countries have attracted a semi permanent population of western drug addled and now criminally inclined stay behinds who just... never return home. The now live hand to mouth in their new home and obtain income by selling or brokering small scale drug buys and approaching tourists for hand outs etc.

Rural Japan would not seem like a very attractive place for "stay behinds" to congregate- but sometimes actuality can be counter intuitive. I wonder if there are a population of these types in towns or hostels close to the trail?

Drug using stay behinds can attract criminally inclined locals to satisfy drug needs. Again, Japan in general and rural Japan in particular would not seem to be a good area for such a market- but who knows?

Thinking that local drug vendors selling to stay behinds, or current hikers ( perhaps some view eastern religions such as Buddhism / Shintoism and recreational drug use as natural partners) would probably be lazy.

Thus, these vendors would most likely to set up shop where the trail crosses a road. Perhaps they then approach Wu about buying some of their "products"? She refuses, and is victimized?

 

[neesaki]

Regardign the possibility of criminal activity (rare in Japan, but humans are humans), I am thinking that...

Criminal activity could come from:

A. A fellow hiker
B A broad definition of "locals".

Some tourist locations in less developed countries have attracted a semi permanent population of western drug addled and now criminally inclined stay behinds who just... never return home. The now live hand to mouth in their new home and obtain income by selling or brokering small scale drug buys and approaching tourists for hand outs etc.

Rural Japan would not seem like a very attractive place for "stay behinds" to congregate- but sometimes actuality can be counter intuitive. I wonder if there are a population of these types in towns or hostels close to the trail?

Drug using stay behinds can attract criminally inclined locals to satisfy drug needs. Again, Japan in general and rural Japan in particular would not seem to be a good area for such a market- but who knows?

Thinking that local drug vendors selling to stay behinds, or current hikers ( perhaps some view eastern religions such as Buddhism / Shintoism and recreational drug use as natural partners) would probably be lazy.

Thus, these vendors would most likely to set up shop where the trail crosses a road. Perhaps they then approach Wu about buying some of their "products"? She refuses, and is victimized?

I did read on one of the blogs, that ”cash is king” on the trail, as the hostels don’t take credit cards. This seems it could easily lead to visitors becoming targets of theft.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Regardign the possibility of criminal activity (rare in Japan, but humans are humans), I am thinking that...

Criminal activity could come from:

A. A fellow hiker
B A broad definition of "locals".

Some tourist locations in less developed countries have attracted a semi permanent population of western drug addled and now criminally inclined stay behinds who just... never return home. The now live hand to mouth in their new home and obtain income by selling or brokering small scale drug buys and approaching tourists for hand outs etc.

Rural Japan would not seem like a very attractive place for "stay behinds" to congregate- but sometimes actuality can be counter intuitive. I wonder if there are a population of these types in towns or hostels close to the trail?

Drug using stay behinds can attract criminally inclined locals to satisfy drug needs. Again, Japan in general and rural Japan in particular would not seem to be a good area for such a market- but who knows?

Thinking that local drug vendors selling to stay behinds, or current hikers ( perhaps some view eastern religions such as Buddhism / Shintoism and recreational drug use as natural partners) would probably be lazy.

Thus, these vendors would most likely to set up shop where the trail crosses a road. Perhaps they then approach Wu about buying some of their "products"? She refuses, and is victimized?

I don't lean in this direction due to the rural nature & sparse population of most of the Kohechi Route, an 80-mile rugged trail of which she was traversing an 11-mile portion. Some of the longer route has road portions. I think the stretch she was on does not except near accommodations at both ends but I could be wrong.

This is most likely a case of misadventure resulting in injury IMO. She could also have had a medical incident that left her hidden & endangered. The trail is well-marked including signs to prevent taking side trails to keep pilgrims on track.

I think when traveling alone on these kind of remote trails, the expense of a satellite phone or rescue beacon IS A MUST or don't go. Being in touch daily with someone is a critical safety plan. When 24 hours passes without contact & your loved one is alone on another continent, they are already seriously endangered.

This incident is turning into a cautionary tale, sadly. But I still hope for a positive outcome. I think solo hiking is one of the best experiences on the planet & have done it a lot though never this remote.

We have to lean on Pattie's resourcefulness & inner strength to see her through to rescue. She's very fortunate to have people who are extremely tenacious about finding her. That doesn't always happen.
MOO

 

[Cryptic]

I did read on one of the blogs, that ”cash is king” on the trail, as the hostels don’t take credit cards. This seems it could easily lead to visitors becoming targets of theft.

That could support a criminal scenario of:

- English speaking hiker is out of money and thus out of shelter and food on the trail. He then approaches Wu for money. Wu likely offers him some- but he quickly deems the amount to be token.

Wu's "insufficient" hand out then re-awakens his latent hostility towards women in general, and the cash stranded hiker attacks her?

 

[ZaZara]

Regardign the possibility of criminal activity (rare in Japan, but humans are humans), I am thinking that...

Criminal activity could come from:

A. A fellow hiker
B A broad definition of "locals".

Some tourist locations in less developed countries have attracted a semi permanent population of western drug addled and now criminally inclined stay behinds who just... never return home. The now live hand to mouth in their new home and obtain income by selling or brokering small scale drug buys and approaching tourists for hand outs etc.

Rural Japan would not seem like a very attractive place for "stay behinds" to congregate- but sometimes actuality can be counter intuitive. I wonder if there are a population of these types in towns or hostels close to the trail?

Drug using stay behinds can attract criminally inclined locals to satisfy drug needs. Again, Japan in general and rural Japan in particular would not seem to be a good area for such a market- but who knows?

Thinking that local drug vendors selling to stay behinds, or current hikers ( perhaps some view eastern religions such as Buddhism / Shintoism and recreational drug use as natural partners) would probably be lazy.

Thus, these vendors would most likely to set up shop where the trail crosses a road. Perhaps they then approach Wu about buying some of their "products"? She refuses, and is victimized?

BBM

Very surprised to see Japan qualified as a less developed country. Less developed based on what?

 

[Cryptic]

BBM

Very surprised to see Japan qualified as a less developed country. Less developed based on what?

Sorry for the confusion. I never meant to imply that Japan was a lesser developed country.

Rather, I wanted to state that drug addled stay behinds can congregate at tourist sites in lesser developed nations ( I have had encounters with them). I then went on to say Japan was not likely to attract these types- but one never knows.

As you stated, Japan is very developed. As a result, it is costly. Japan also probably has very good internal controls regarding expired tourist visas etc. Thus, for many reasons, Japan is less likely to attract drug addled "stay behinds" like less developed countries can- but sometimes actuality can be counter intuitive.

 

[Centaurus]

BBM

Very surprised to see Japan qualified as a less developed country. Less developed based on what?

I don't think she was talking about Japan.

 

[annpats]

I know, right? I assume the owner of the hostel, that said he took her to the trailhead, was telling the truth.
But then it was pointed out later, the trailhead was, what… like a 1/4 mile away?

Are we saying there is a trail leading to the trail? Maybe he did just take her to the connecting path?

I also read on one of the first pages (I think) where it said there are a couple of other bi-secting trails that run/cross into this one on occasions, but that all trails are all clearly signposted exactly what trail it is you're on or about to go on to.

My question is if she didn't look at a signpost, because she presumed she was on the right trail, but then carried on walking along one that wasn't her trail, where do these other trails lead?
To other guesthouses? To roads? To mountains?

Are these trails more (or less?) well visited than the trial she was supposed to be on? What is the terrain like on these other trails?

Also, cell coverage. Yes, it would be natural for Pattie to assume there wouldn't be cell signal out there, but surely she'd have known/presumed the guesthouses would have WiFi. That's pretty standard, even for rural-ish Japan. It must've been mentioned on their booking page.

Very, very concerning that no body has been found if she did have an accident. Which makes me think she was very, very off the trail or she didn't go where she planned to.

If she was off the trail, and went into to the woods, are these woods so big that she wouldn't find her way out again? Can you see daylight through the trunks?

 

[slowpoke]

“Kirk recalled last contacting his wife April 9, when she texted him a picture of her Easter meal.
“She said (she) was ahead of schedule, and she was going to go on a separate trek, so we might not be able to reach her,” he said.”

Husband of Connecticut mom missing in Japan says search intensifying, involves Japan, US law enforcement

Patricia “Pattie” Wu-Murad was last seen on the morning of April 10.

nypost.com

I’m noting the above quote from the NY Post, and then recalling the statement on the G F M site by the daughter saying that at the Mandokoro guesthouse they found a paper in Pattie’s handwriting that seemed to be an intinerary for the next few days.

Did she discard that paper purposely because she was “going on a separate trek”, instead of her original plan?

JMO