JBaez requests Ex Parte Hearing with Judge Strickland

[trixi491]

You're referring to the doctrine that we call "fruit of the poisonous tree," which, simply stated, means that if a privilege was breached, then anything that is found as a result of said breach may be suppressed UNLESS the SA can show that whatever was found as a result of the breach would have been found anyway (inevitable discovery doctrine.)
Here, only way JBaez could try to prevent introduction into evidence of testimony/records/reports concerning the finding of and ME's evaluation of Caylee's body, etc., would be to connect the dots between Kronk, who, as far as I know, found Caylee, and someone who was privy to some privileged communication, which I doubt will be the case. But you know, weirder things have happened...
Good thought for discussion!

If they were able to get the evidence thrown out, couldn't it be brought up at trial that KC admitted to JB where the body was and therefore is clearly guilty? I mean everyone knows Caylee is dead and I'm sure a jury will want an explanation as to why they aren't talking about the remains or any evidence found with the body?

 

[MAMABEAR]

I really have to:clap::clap::clap:the peeps who sit in these depos with JB. They are some mighty fine peeps.

I promise you that if he gave me one and I had to sit across the table from, before it was over I would reach over that table and get a point across to that dumb-a$$ before somebody could get me off him. As I sit in jail, I would know that all my lil W/Sers are watchin the video and the laughter around the world would shake him silly again.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[cecybeans]

You're referring to the doctrine that we call "fruit of the poisonous tree," which, simply stated, means that if a privilege was breached, then anything that is found as a result of said breach may be suppressed UNLESS the SA can show that whatever was found as a result of the breach would have been found anyway (inevitable discovery doctrine.)
Here, only way JBaez could try to prevent introduction into evidence of testimony/records/reports concerning the finding of and ME's evaluation of Caylee's body, etc., would be to connect the dots between Kronk, who, as far as I know, found Caylee, and someone who was privy to some privileged communication, which I doubt will be the case. But you know, weirder things have happened...
Good thought for discussion!

It is a pleasure for those of us not hard-wired for the jurisprudence system to behold you as you converse. And for your patience with us. Could the above doctrine also include evidence such as the actual body of the deceased who is ostensibly being represented by the state? Also, could the SA assume inevitable discovery since, in addition to Kronk and KW's documented excursions in August, JB's own PI was in the same exact vicinity three months later being filmed at what he is on record describing was the location of Caylee's body?

Just an aside (as an anal-rententive ex Latin magistra) - it's duces tecum, as the Latin verb is "ducere", to lead. Also, "in camera" versus "ex camera" in the original simply refers to in or out of a vaulted room, ostensibly a judge's chamber and therefore not within "view" of the "court", if that makes it easier to visualize. So many legal phrases used are just really poor or vague translations of Latin - probably affectations handed down from British law in an attempt to appear Ciceronian - and are thankfully being dropped in many places for more precise English terms (like "motion to compel for production of evidence" for subpoena duces tecum). The medical world seems to be following suit. We'll still need y'all to help us with translating that to layman's language....

 

[Cat13067]

Don't you find it strange that Officer Cain was the officer who took the gas can report in June from GA. Wonder if GA worked his magic and the two of them talked about being cops. Then lo and behold Officer Cain is the officer that goes out to inspect the area on Suburban Drive when Kronk called not once, but twice. Maybe Officer Cain paid a visit to his friend GA, and told him all about this guy Kronk calling about something in the woods, and old GA went and told CA who then went and told DC.

 

[LancelotLink]

I really have to:clap::clap::clap:the peeps who sit in these depos with JB. They are some mighty fine peeps.

I promise you that if he gave me one and I had to sit across the table from, before it was over I would reach over that table and get a point across to that dumb-a$$ before somebody could get me off him. As I sit in jail, I would know that all my lil W/Sers are watchin the video and the laughter around the world would shake him silly again.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

HAHA! I wonder if he will depose the psychic from VA. I have this image of you raking a tin cup across the bars, singing "Nobody Knows The Trouble I've Seen."

 

[MAMABEAR]

OT
Can somebody start a thread for JB's peeps he is doin depos to? Please!

 

[Theonly1]

Cecy, I think you asked essentially "COULD" the body ever be thrown out as evidence obtained in an inadmissible fashion? I think the answer is yes it COULD be thrown out but here's just an example of all the things/elements which MUST be PROVEN (not guessed at, not alluded to):

In this instance:

*Someone IN LAW ENFORCEMENT obtained the information illegally which in this case is the location of Caylee's body. For example, law enforcement eavesdropping on privileged attorney/client communications of Casey telling Baez where the body is located. Further, this conversation could not have gone down in a louder than normal tone or where a third party was present (otherwise the privilege would be tainted).

*Kronk found the body and he is NOT in law enforcement so a DIRECT LINK from the LE eavesdropper would have to be made to Kronk.

*LE eavesdropper would either have to admit to the eavesdropping and telling Kronk the location, or Kronk would have to admit that LE told him (and that LE found out by illegally eavesdropping alone)

*Proof would have to be shown that said LE was able to eavesdrop and in fact eavesdropped

*In this perverted daisy chain, it also MUST BE PROVEN that there was no other way the body would have been found. If the body could have eventually been discovered then it won't be thrown out. Since the body was found close to the road, in the closest woods to the A home, in a place where children play, laying out in the open, once the ground was dry, it WAS INEVITABLE Caylee would have been found. I don't think it would be possible to get around this doctrine of sanity.

 

[cecybeans]

Don't you find it strange that Officer Cain was the officer who took the gas can report in June from GA. Wonder if GA worked his magic and the two of them talked about being cops. Then lo and behold Officer Cain is the officer that goes out to inspect the area on Suburban Drive when Kronk called not once, but twice. Maybe Officer Cain paid a visit to his friend GA, and told him all about this guy Kronk calling about something in the woods, and old GA went and told CA who then went and told DC.

Excellent idea - I've often wondered why everyone knew where to look before KC was even bonded out - and certainly after that little private meeting GA wanted to set up with LE fell through on Aug. 14. I mean, if she was talking in code to LA, then she never mentioned any "three pavers" location, which were found near the body when Kronk was there and which DC and his photobuddy were scrabbling to locate. Unless KC wrote specific instructions in a note that JB carried out to LA, or GA hid the body himself, then (barring any talking teddy bears sent to psychics) SOMEBODY had to have heard inside info during the very first month long before she was bonded out by LP.

If KC mentioned the location to JB at at jail visit and DC overheard, couldn't he have told CA or GA? JB might be wasting his time depo-ing guards if his own subcontractor blabbed. (I still don't get how DC could be under simultaneous contract to JB and GA/CA and KC without some kind of mammoth potential conflict of interest).

Maybe that was why JB was crazy to get a "master" interrogator at DC's LE interview. Maybe that's why he might now be looking for a different scapegoat in a jail security officer. Just a thought....

 

[LancelotLink]

Don't you find it strange that Officer Cain was the officer who took the gas can report in June from GA. Wonder if GA worked his magic and the two of them talked about being cops. Then lo and behold Officer Cain is the officer that goes out to inspect the area on Suburban Drive when Kronk called not once, but twice. Maybe Officer Cain paid a visit to his friend GA, and told him all about this guy Kronk calling about something in the woods, and old GA went and told CA who then went and told DC.

With any other case, I would suggest this was his area and not strange at all. However, this is the Casey Anthony case...

 

[LancelotLink]

Interesting! Thanks!

Excellent idea - I've often wondered why everyone knew where to look before KC was even bonded out - and certainly after that little private meeting GA wanted to set up with LE fell through on Aug. 14. I mean, if she was talking in code to LA, then she never mentioned any "three pavers" location, which were found near the body when Kronk was there and which DC and his photobuddy were scrabbling to locate. Unless KC wrote specific instructions in a note that JB carried out to LA, or GA hid the body himself, then (barring any talking teddy bears sent to psychics) SOMEBODY had to have heard inside info during the very first month long before she was bonded out by LP.

If KC mentioned the location to JB at at jail visit and DC overheard, couldn't he have told CA or GA? JB might be wasting his time depo-ing guards if his own subcontractor blabbed. (I still don't get how DC could be under simultaneous contract to JB and GA/CA and KC without some kind of mammoth potential conflict of interest).

Maybe that was why JB was crazy to get a "master" interrogator at DC's LE interview. Maybe that's why he might now be looking for a different scapegoat in a jail security officer. Just a thought....

 

[trixi491]

Cecy, I think you asked essentially "COULD" the body ever be thrown out as evidence obtained in an inadmissible fashion? I think the answer is yes it COULD be thrown out but here's just an example of all the things/elements which MUST be PROVEN (not guessed at, not alluded to):

In this instance:

*Someone IN LAW ENFORCEMENT obtained the information illegally which in this case is the location of Caylee's body. For example, law enforcement eavesdropping on privileged attorney/client communications of Casey telling Baez where the body is located. Further, this conversation could not have gone down in a louder than normal tone or where a third party was present (otherwise the privilege would be tainted).

*Kronk found the body and he is NOT in law enforcement so a DIRECT LINK from the LE eavesdropper would have to be made to Kronk.

*LE eavesdropper would either have to admit to the eavesdropping and telling Kronk the location, or Kronk would have to admit that LE told him (and that LE found out by illegally eavesdropping alone)

*Proof would have to be shown that said LE was able to eavesdrop and in fact eavesdropped

*In this perverted daisy chain, it also MUST BE PROVEN that there was no other way the body would have been found. If the body could have eventually been discovered then it won't be thrown out. Since the body was found close to the road, in the closest woods to the A home, in a place where children play, once the ground was dry, it WAS INEVITABLE Caylee would have been found. I don't think it would be possible to get around this doctrine of sanity.

You seem to have a good grasp on this kind of stuff. Therefore, maybe you could answer my previous question: Even if they were able to get the evidence thrown out, couldn't it be brought up at trial that KC admitted to JB where the body was and therefore is clearly guilty?

 

[Theonly1]

You seem to have a good grasp on this kind of stuff. Therefore, maybe you could answer my previous question: Even if they were able to get the evidence thrown out, couldn't it be brought up at trial that KC admitted to JB where the body was and therefore is clearly guilty?

No, because attorney/client communications are privileged.

 

[cecybeans]

Thanks, TheOnly1 (aka Rhoda) - that's exactly what I meant. Only I was questioning how JB could refute inevitability when his own PI was doing some pretty serious digging in the precise location as well. Even if Kronk knew where to go on his earlier excursion, and is suspected of being told by a prison guard in late July or early August, isn't that the same time that DC was loitering around in meetings with KC and JB?

I'd think to make his argument stick, JB would have to admit the specific location of the body had been discussed at a client meeting and that DC was not present, only jail staff, to prove that an LEO had violated his privilege. DC overhearing and blabbing to someone or even talking about it within earshot of a guard would not be violation of privilege any more would it?

 

[Theonly1]

We also have to keep in mind that the people poking around out there were NOT LE but investigators either working for or having connections with the Anthony's and/or Casey! If anyone moved a body or tipped off Kronk I think it was one of that gang and not law enforcement (moo).

 

[trixi491]

No, because attorney/client communications are privileged.

I just don't see how a jury wouldn't wonder why they are not hearing evidence about the body or remains site? I mean I'm sure they will all know Caylee was found dead and I'm assuming looking for an explanation as to why it isn't brought up?

 

[Theonly1]

Thanks, TheOnly1 (aka Rhoda) - that's exactly what I meant. Only I was questioning how JB could refute inevitability when his own PI was doing some pretty serious digging in the precise location as well. Even if Kronk knew where to go on his earlier excursion, and is suspected of being told by a prison guard in late July or early August, isn't that the same time that DC was loitering around in meetings with KC and JB?

I'd think to make his argument stick, JB would have to admit the specific location of the body had been discussed at a client meeting and that DC was not present, only jail staff, to prove that an LEO had violated his privilege. DC overhearing and blabbing to someone or even talking about it within earshot of a guard would not be violation of privilege any more would it?

Yep, I am in agreement with you. JB would HAVE TO ADMIT that Casey communicated with him the PRECISE location of the BODY. And that no one else was present (because the privilege gets REALLY battered when anyone can overhear you (imagine client YELLING at attorney) or when there is a third party (think someone not on Defense team) hearing the discussions). If any third party even has the POSSIBILITY of spilling the beans (and is seen poking around the same area) then the defense is going to be up ****e's Creek without a paddle trying to prove that LE and only LE did the tip-off. Like I wrote above, they are pretty much going to have to have a direct admission of shenanigans (not some sneaking suspicious) in order to get this to fly and then they'll have to get over the hurdle of the inevitable discovery doctrine. Impossible.

Don't worry your pretty little heads. He is not going to get little Caylee's body thrown out. If he does, I'll eat my shorts.

 

[trixi491]

Yep, I am in agreement with you. JB would HAVE TO ADMIT that Casey communicated with him the PRECISE location of the BODY. And that no one else was present (because the privilege gets REALLY battered when anyone can overhear you (imagine client YELLING at attorney) or when there is a third party (think someone not on Defense team) hearing the discussions). If any third party even has the POSSIBILITY of spilling the beans (and is seen poking around the same area) then the defense is going to be up ****e's Creek without a paddle trying to prove that LE and only LE did the tip-off. Like I wrote above, they are pretty much going to have to have a direct admission of shenanigans (not some sneaking suspicious) in order to get this to fly and then they'll have to get over the hurdle of the inevitable discovery doctrine. Impossible.

I think it would be in JB's best interest not even to attempt it then. B/c it does seem impossible to prove and unlikely that all this evidence will be thrown out. So not only will he be losing that (add that to the many of the other motions he's lost), but he will also be admitting KC's guilt and the fact that he knew Caylee was dead since August and did nothing about it but preach her innocence and that Caylee was still alive. He would become public enemy # 2 IMO (right after his precious KC of course)

 

[Theonly1]

I think it would be in JB's best interest not even to attempt it then. B/c it does seem impossible and unlikely that all this evidence will be inadmissable. So not only will he be losing that, but he will also be admitting KC's guilt and the fact that he knew Caylee was dead since August and did nothing about it but preach her innocence and that Caylee was still alive.

True. But the "admissions" would be (likely) before trial and not information the jurors would ever hear about either way. Motions like these are done out of the presence of the jury...but not the court of public opinion. He really would be Public Enemy #1 then...

 

[SoSueMe]

Don't you find it strange that Officer Cain was the officer who took the gas can report in June from GA. Wonder if GA worked his magic and the two of them talked about being cops. Then lo and behold Officer Cain is the officer that goes out to inspect the area on Suburban Drive when Kronk called not once, but twice. Maybe Officer Cain paid a visit to his friend GA, and told him all about this guy Kronk calling about something in the woods, and old GA went and told CA who then went and told DC.

I don't find it strange that Officer Cain was the responding officer because that is probably his territory to cover. However, when DomC was being interviewed by LE he said that no one from the A family told him about that location. Could it be that Officer Cain spoke to DomC about it and someone reporting something suspicious in that area? In his interview, just as he was about to tell LE who told him about the location, they went off the record. I don't mean that Officer Cain went running to DomC with the information, but just in the course of visiting, he may have mentioned it?

 

[trixi491]

True. But the "admissions" would be (likely) before trial and not information the jurors would ever hear about either way. Motions like these are done out of the presence of the jury...but not the court of public opinion. He really would be Public Enemy #1 then...

Yep, that's what I figured and actually edited that (in terms of being a public enemy) in my original post right before you responded