If you read further in the transcript, you can see that Patsy backpedals like mad about the pictures. Combined with how she brings up out of nowhere the heart on the hand, it is as if she went home, described to John and/or her lawyer what she said in the interview, and got scolded about how problematic her recorded testimony was, thus causing her to backpedal on it and go further on the record as saying that what she said was not what she meant, she meant something completely different.
Absolutely. This is one of the keys to deciphering those interviews. When John(and especially Patsy) start taking the conversation in a different direction, its a red flag that needs to be planted on that subject. Patsy does this quite often and repeatedly. She'll veer off topic, take it in another direction, then when something uncomfortable gets mentioned again, take it back to the original issue that she avoided which in itself is off topic now as well, causing the original issue to lose its impact during the interview(s) and they never picked up on this tactic.
Excluding the various slip ups by Patsy like "I dont see any blood there, do you?"There are several issues besides these "cutesy" photos that Patsy likes to avoid....
JAR's bedroom- It evolves from her room to JAR's room then back to her room throughout the interview and sometimes even in the same sentence. No one wants to 'own' whatever went on this room. It's a red flag.
There are also pictures taken by LE of this room and some never released seem to defy description. Patsy distances herself from these items without even being able to properly describe them and we know she had been in that very room that night. Another red flag.
PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like a drawer. That is the drawer in the guest -- in John Andrew's
room.
TRIP DEMUTH: What is the red and black item?
PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I can't tell. I don't know.
TOM HANEY: Go ahead.
PATSY RAMSEY: I was going to say, do you have a picture of it blown up?
TOM HANEY: No, we don't.
PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
TOM HANEY: Can you tell us, identify the other items that are in there.
PATSY RAMSEY: I can't. This (inaudible). John Andrew did (inaudible), that he would hang up.
Looks like just clothes in there. Can't tell.
TOM HANEY: Okay. How about 280, and we can probably skip that one quickly.
PATSY RAMSEY: No. I don't know what that is.
TOM HANEY: Is that the next sequence. Yeah. Some of these are going to be gone over quickly, and we will skip over to 281. There is none. So we go to 282, which is a photo 283.
PATSY RAMSEY: That is a drawer with some markers in it. I don't know what drawer it is
JAR's bathroom- She flip flops like crazy on the contents of those drawers. They know it was a mistake to leave those open. Another red flag.
The issue of videos in JAR's room- There's no denying someone in that house went through videotapes in his room at some point and she tries to shoo this issue away by a lame comment about the kids liking Barney videos. I don't buy it.....its another red flag.
The camera- Another thing they distance themselves from and don't want to 'own'. When being asked about the camera in one of the exchanges, she asks them did they want to see her in the photos being taken....a good point and Patsy was heading them off at the pass because she knew it was going to be the next logical question. If she's not taking the pictures, they want to know why she's not appearing in them....its because she was the one likely taking the pictures. Some sleuths like to say that the photos on this camera are much ado about nothing. I strongly disagree. If they were much ado about nothing, they wouldn't wish to distance themselves from nothing....they'd embrace it.
Jonbenet pics in general- This is potentially a huge issue and handled terribly starting with....
TRIP DeMUTH: I haven't seen the pictures..
Demuth should not have even been participating in the questioning and probably should have been fired for even admitting this in front of Patsy. Any leverage they may or may not have had on the issue was sunk by Demuth's statement.
The family's clothing- THis is a huge issue for obvious reasons and they are asked about it periodically throughout the interviews. They aim most of these questions at Patsy. She doesn't like these questions. Some of the questions on the surface sound absurd(Patsy, were you wearing socks at the Whites party?) but they are not absurd....they keep coming back to them maybe in the hopes she will stumble....she doesn't. In most murder cases, what the victim is wearing is usually the only potential relevancy clothing has. That's not the case here. Yes JOnbenet's clothing that night is certainly relevant but they are wondering what each of them wore....down to their socks. THis is odd and an ignored red flag in the case. One of the reasons I would like the Whites Christmas party pics to surface. THings aren't adding up on these rolls of film. If you're asking Patsy if she was wearing socks, is she photographed on one roll wearing them but she's wearing something else in other photographs? That line of questioning insinuates something that appears innocent on the surface may actually be a can of worms begging to be opened.
An example:
TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recall that night what footwear you had on?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't. I really don't know.
TRIP DeMUTH: Could you guess what you would have been wearing with that outfit? Was it the same -- you were going to wear the same outfit the next day on the plane, is that --
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, probably these little black boots kind of things that were kind of ankle boots.
TRIP DeMUTH: Were those the furry ones?
PATSY RAMSEY: Furry? No, no, they were the leather like shoe boots, kind of more like shoes than boots, but I can't say for sure.
TRIP DeMUTH: And what brand were those?
PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I got them at Lundstrum's, I think.
TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible.) Or were they tennis shoes? I'll look again.
TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have a pair of white socks on?
PATSY RAMSEY: I was trying to think. Looks like that was attached to me or attached to the rug or something. Kind of looks like that. I could have had white socks on underneath the --
TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
PATSY RAMSEY: -- shoes.
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Shoes. Does that help refresh your recollection about what shoes you were wearing?
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
Take into account that they are looking at photos of Patsy at the White's while this exchange is going on.
Jonbenet and parties- Patsy and JOhn do not like to talk about these two subjects together. THis is a major red flag waving all over the case but few acknowledge it. I'm not just talking about the Christmas party, 23rd party, but also the party in their house on the 13th. Here is an odd exhange on this party....
TRIP DeMUTH: Do you remember what your children did during that party, during the dinner (snip) "were they being baby-sat somewhere else?" (snip)
PATSY RAMSEY: I think they were around. I don't know if they came down and kind of left me their bowls and went back to play." (snip) "I do remember once we didn't have enough food and I had to call Treiling (phonetic) and order every piece of chicken wing and roll they had. Could have been you know -- everybody brought alcohol but not food, you know, everybody was supposed to bring something. There wasn't enough food." [Patsy 6/98 BPD Interview]
She
thinks they were around.....and then immediately removes JOnbenet out of the story and starts talking about chicken wings and rolls. That party is a subject she does not wish to discuss. Its a red flag.
Here's JOhn on that same party....
LOU SMIT: Was JonBenet visible at that time in the house?
JOHN RAMSEY: "I am sure she was, yeah. She -- but I can't visually remember her being there, but I am sure she was. Had to be." [John 6/98 BPD Interview)
Unreal. He's "sure she was" but "cant visually remember her being there". Immediate distancing.
What happened at
this party?
The molestation/sexual assault issue- If there was a moment and topic to get Patsy to crack, this was the issue.
Here's this exchange....
TOM HANEY: Okay. Ms. Ramsey, are you aware that there had been prior vaginal intrusion on JonBenet?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not. Prior to the night she was killed?
TOM HANEY: Correct.
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.
TOM HANEY: Didn't know that?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I didn't.
TOM HANEY: Does that surprise you?
PATSY RAMSEY: Extremely.
TOM HANEY: Does that shock you?
PATSY RAMSEY: It shocks me.
TOM HANEY: Does it bother you?
PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, it does.
TOM HANEY: Who, how could she have been violated like that?
PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. This is the absolute first time I ever heard that.
TOM HANEY: Take a minute, if you would, I mean this seems -- you know, you didn't know that before right now, the 25th, at 2:32?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I absolutely did not.
She doesn't sound shocked to me. A mother truly unaware of her just recently murdered six year old daughter being sexually abused would be outraged and her responses would be a LOT more emotional and heated than that. A genuine surprised reaction would include a lot more than three word sentence responses.
and here's the moment they came awfully damn close to breaking her....
ELLIS ARMISTEAD: To be fair, Tom, that's been a subject of debate in the newspaper whether or not she represented what is true as a fact. I don't want you to alarm my client too much here about whether or not it's absolutely a fact. I just think that should be mentioned to be fair to my client.
TOM HANEY: And based on the reliable medical information that we have at this point, that is a fact.
PATSY RAMSEY: Now when you say violated, what are you -- what are you telling me here?
TOM HANEY: That there was some prior vaginal intrusion that something --something was inserted?
PATSY RAMSEY: Prior to this night that she was assaulted?
TOM HANEY: That's the--
PATSY RAMSEY: What report as -- I want to see, I want to see what you're talking about here. I am -- I am -- I don't -- I am shocked.
TOM HANEY: Well, that's one of the things that's been bothering us about the case.
PATSY RAMSEY: No damn kidding.
TOM HANEY: What does that tell you?
PATSY RAMSEY: It doesn't tell me anything. I mean, I knew -- I -- I --
TOM HANEY: Okay, for a second --
PATSY RAMSEY: Did you know about this?
ELLIS ARMISTEAD: I tried to stay out of the making of the record and inserting myself into the tape-recording of this interview. The newspapers have talked about this. Whether or not--
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, they talk about a lot of things that are not true.
THis exchange is an outrage. Haney interrupts her allowing her to regain her composure and for Armistead to intervene and resue her. She was being painted into a corner and about to reveal what she knew but Haney handed her a bottle of paint remover and saved her from potentially hanging herself.
Here's an exchange on the mysterious scarf that seems to bounce from room to room depending on the photograph. Patsy doesn't like this discussion either and even she asks if its the same in other photos. She's trying(and succeeding) in staying one step ahead of them....
TRIP DeMUTH: It's a red object under the table?
PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
PATSY RAMSEY: There's -- looks like that scarf that we've seen previously.
TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Black and red scarf on the bar.
PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
TRIP DeMUTH: Looks like it -- where does it look like it is in this photo?
PATSY RAMSEY: What, the scarf?
TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
PATSY RAMSEY: Hanging on, hanging on the little ledge there by the bar. Is that where it
was on the other one?
TRIP DeMUTH: The other photo we looked at it was on the bar itself.
PATSY RAMSEY: It was on the bar. This just looks strange to me.
Notice she avoids discussing the "red object" in JAR's room and zooms in on the scarf. She's using the strategy I mentioned above....trying to nullify both issues with her cunning.
The plastic bags- another potentially crucial issue. Read this exchange.
TRIP DeMUTH: Now, what about the bag, the plastic bag?
PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
TRIP DeMUTH: No.
PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know, I can't
tell what's in there, what it is.
TOM HANEY: Try, I don't know if that helps?
PATSY RAMSEY: Do you remember what was in that one?
TRIP DeMUTH: Remember we talked about a plastic bag in photo 52.
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I had plastic bags getting some things ready to go to the
lake.
TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I was packing it kind of on the landing up there.
TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
PATSY RAMSEY: And then we saw one down at the bottom of the stairs.
TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
PATSY RAMSEY: And you said that picture was taken early that morning.
TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
PATSY RAMSEY: So that could have -- that could have been the bag with the clothes going
to the lake and I could have brought it down and saw the note, dropped the bag. But if this was
taken before that, then I don't know what's in that bag. I don't know what that is. I can't tell. I don't know.
TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know what was in that one, either. I can't tell what that is. It looks like there's writing on that, red.
Did you notice that neither side brings up how the bags have moved depending on when the photographs were taken that morning/afternoon and neither side even bothers to question why the bags have been moved and disappeared....which is the million dollar question on this issue? Patsy is the one who brings up photo discrepancies and she's the damn suspect!! She brings it up to minimize the issue....it works.