"Jersey" and MW #2

[neese]

I see what you mean. I think JT may just be a serial killer. I'll tell you why....look at all the criteria for a serial killer that fits him.... I've bolded those I feel similar, the rest we just don't know about....yet.

Fourteen Characteristics of a Serial Killer

Below is a list of the 14 most common traits of serial killers.

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.

2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.

3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.

4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.

5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.

6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.

7. They hate their fathers and mothers.

8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.

9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.

10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.

11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic *advertiser censored*.

12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.

13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.

14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures.

Source: Internal Association of Forensic Science, an article written by FBI Special Agent Robert K. Ressler
"The Serial Killer," Harold Schechter

Wow, I'm still stuck back here reading on page 10 and my dog is wondering why i'm laughing so loud. I don't know if you all got past this "profiling" stuff or not, I'll find out when I get to the end, but for now, I'm gettin' a little depressed thinkin' Ima serial killer AND a kidnapper...:great:

 

[vlpate]

Someone may have posted this already, but I haven't been able to find it. This is JT when he was in prison in New Jersey -

 

[DeAnn]

MW and Jersey are being suspected because they are shady characters with criminal pasts in the area. I am not against them being checked out at all and that is fairly common in any case. LE looks into resident sex offenders and probably anyone with a glaring criminal record in the immediate area.

I think the cellphone call could also indicate a link especially if DB had the number on her hand. Of course, all of that is hearsay at the moment.

So, I can see why people are looking at them. Some of the comments I do think are a bit off though. The most common theory I have seen for people who suspect Jersey is he went in there looking for jewelry or something to sell saw Lisa and decided HEY I will take her too! That scenario seems almost the most unreasonable of any theory to me. Taking a baby is a whole other world than taking a watch and I am surprised by how many people act like it is the most logical, simple jump for a petty thief. I think, if he wanted to sell her, something would already have been arranged and she would have been a mark rather than a random last minute afterthought. If so, was Jersey smart enough not to leave a trail at all or was he working with someone who was that smart? Was Jersey a pedophile? I haven't seen anything that says he is.
On surface level, he seems like the perfect mark-shady character in the area it has to be him. If you dig deeper the actual logistics of him stealing Lisa get a bit more complex. I am assuming motive is money OR nefarious (sexual). Money seems more logical, but you don't just randomly grab a child on a whim, sit around for a few days, and then stand at a corner somewhere and hock her like you can a stolen Ipod. I would think a buyer would already have to be in place and that immediately points to a trail that can be traced.

There was a case in California a few years ago about a felon who stole cars. He happened to steal a SUV and didn't notice a sleeping baby in the back in a car seat. Within minutes alerts and publicity were all over Southern California. They found the SUV on the side of the road with baby snuggled in the back safe. Later, they figured out the thief was like HELL NO as soon as he saw the baby and abandoned the vehicle. I don't know-sort of an unrelated anecdote, but stealing a baby versus stealing an inanimate object 99% of the world doesn't care about are two very different actions. Stealing a baby is a disaster of logistical planning, neverending intense publicity, scrutiny, etc. If Jersey is involved I still say something had to be set up beforehand (therefore, trail) OR he was an accomplice of some sort for DB.

Thank you for the feedback. If baby Lisa were toddler Lisa or preschooler Lisa or elementary school Lisa, I could see a sicko like in the case of Jaycee Duggard, Elizabeth Smart etc. But she's a baby so the normal sick reasons don't seem to apply here.

I don't have a link but could have sworn Cyndy Short said this week that it was false that DB had Jersey's number written on her hand.

Again, clearly KCPD looked at Jersey but they say they have moved on. Why have web sleuthers not?

 

[powayparent]

Thank you for the feedback. If baby Lisa were toddler Lisa or preschooler Lisa or elementary school Lisa, I could see a sicko like in the case of Jaycee Duggard, Elizabeth Smart etc. But she's a baby so the normal sick reasons don't seem to apply here.

I don't have a link but could have sworn Cyndy Short said this week that it was false that DB had Jersey's number written on her hand.

Again, clearly KCPD looked at Jersey but they say they have moved on. Why have web sleuthers not?

Jim Spellman tweeted that Cindy Short told him the phone number on the hand info was not true, in answer to a question.
http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn

 

[Abby Normal]

Jim Spellman has recently tweeted MW had a vehicle but it broke down 10 days before Lisa disappeared. Now she is seen walking places.

http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn

Like 10 days. Exactly? Not a couple weeks? That just seems like an interesting number to throw out after the fact. I sure as heck can't tell you what I was doing 10 days before she went missing unless I sat down with a calendar, and even then it's iffy. [/over-anaylzing]

 

[nursebeeme]

wrong thread...sorry guys.. sleuth on.. ((of course using TOS and rules in the etiquette thread))

sorry for the confusion peeps..

 

[vlpate]

wrong thread...sorry guys.. sleuth on.. ((of course using TOS and rules in the etiquette thread))

sorry for the confusion peeps..

I had to step out and check the door again :waitasec:

 

[Abby Normal]

No I don't and haven't really tried to find out (info I just found was easily found in casenet). When KCPD said they had "moved on," I did too. I've yet to see a direct tie by either Megan Wright or Jersey to Debbie Bradley or Jeremy Irwin or someone in their immediate family or a motivation for abducting a sleeping baby from her crib.

For those who are convinced either MW and/or Jersey are involved, can you tell me why? We only have MW saying her phone received the call. KCPD and FBI haven't confirmed it (nor would I expect them to either). But KCPD says they have "moved on" from Jersey. I know CNN"s Spellman has spent a lot of time with MW. I just can't figure out why. I'd appreciate it if someone could enlighten me.

Ultimately I think people are probably keeping them in mind for the same reason other people are convinced it was the parents despite LE saying they aren't suspects.

Right now we don't have the information to eliminate anyone, that's something only LE can do- and they have pretty much denied anyone's involvement when asked, which is incredibly smart of them to do.

 

[Donjeta]

Like 10 days. Exactly? Not a couple weeks? That just seems like an interesting number to throw out after the fact. I sure as heck can't tell you what I was doing 10 days before she went missing unless I sat down with a calendar, and even then it's iffy. [/over-anaylzing]

I think the date that my car broke down might stand out because it changes things a lot if you were used to driving before.

 

[cowtowner]

I think he ran over and said, "is it handled? Is it safe to call 911?" JMO

Based on what? and how is this pertinent to JT and MW?

 

[cowtowner]

Ultimately I think people are probably keeping them in mind for the same reason other people are convinced it was the parents despite LE saying they aren't suspects.

Right now we don't have the information to eliminate anyone, that's something only LE can do- and they have pretty much denied anyone's involvement when asked, which is incredibly smart of them to do.

Exactly.

Add to this the fact that MW attaches herself to the crime through her admitted contact on the night of the abduction with one of the phones reported stolen in the abduction. When someone puts themselves in contact with an element of a crime, it's reasonable to consider the likelihood of their involvement in that crime until you can absolutely rule them out with an alibi or other evidence. We've yet to confirm such alibi or evidence.

Also, early on in the crime a man was seen walking with a baby down the street in the area and security camera footage shows a man walking the street nearby that same night. While they are conflicting reports, someone maybe resembling JT - a known recidivist criminal in the area - was reported walking around the area the night of the abduction. Again, it's reasonable to suspect a recidivist in the neighborhood who possibly matches the description until you can rule him or her out with an alibi or other evidence. We've yet to confirm such alibi or evidence.

 

[vlpate]

Thank you for the feedback. If baby Lisa were toddler Lisa or preschooler Lisa or elementary school Lisa, I could see a sicko like in the case of Jaycee Duggard, Elizabeth Smart etc. But she's a baby so the normal sick reasons don't seem to apply here.

I don't have a link but could have sworn Cyndy Short said this week that it was false that DB had Jersey's number written on her hand.

Again, clearly KCPD looked at Jersey but they say they have moved on. Why have web sleuthers not?

I don't think Jersey took Lisa, but I can't help but think he is connected - well he is connected by MW.
Facts
He gives his address at a house 2 minutes walking distance from the <modsnip>.
He's been incarcerated for arson in NJ - there was a dumpster fire (not sure of the time, but significant)
He dated MW whose phone recieved a call from one of the missing <modsnip> phones
He was seen in the neighborhood that day
He's in jail for tampering with a car - JI's car had been broken into
Conjecture on my part
He was a handyman in the neighborhood and there's a good chance he's asked the <modsnip> if they needed anything done

LE may have "moved on", but I just can't yet.

 

[DeAnn]

Ultimately I think people are probably keeping them in mind for the same reason other people are convinced it was the parents despite LE saying they aren't suspects.

Right now we don't have the information to eliminate anyone, that's something only LE can do- and they have pretty much denied anyone's involvement when asked, which is incredibly smart of them to do.

KCPD says they have moved on from Samantha Brando's husband and Jersey. That may not be an elimination, but is it darn close? Regarding the parents as suspects, I think that was all said the first week. Since the parents stopped cooperating, KCPD has said nothing in this area regarding suspects, POI, etc. They have said because of the lack of cooperation they have not been able to rule out DB's involvement and move on from her. They have repeatedly said the lack of cooperation (their words) hinders their investigation.

 

[natsound]

For me, it's his record, his association with MW, and the fact that forever he has listed 3718 N. Lister as his address. Seriously, there are not that many coincidences in the real world.

I don't see why he would take Lisa, but he might just help set Deborah up. Maybe LE already knows where Lisa is - a stretch, I admit - but they could be trying to smoke someone out, make them nervous enough to crack. Could be, like on Lifetime, Jersey has already told them and they are wanting a confession. There's a lot of money at stake, and there are a lot of players who could use it.

Besides, Jersey would have had to ask DB to put her wine down and help him up to the window if he is the one who allegedly broke in - and I don't see her putting her wine down :floorlaugh:

There's probably a history with DB and Jersey that we're not privy to yet. I wonder if DB promised a big payback for Jersey if he helped her out in this situation. IF Jersey is involved, I lean toward this being premeditated. I don't think she'd call him in a pinch in the wee hours of the morning to help hide a baby's body, and he just accepted. Plus, we have the phone number written on DB's hand (is this just a rumor or is is there reason to believe it's true?)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What's the profile for cereal killers? Cause I'm seriously thinking of finishing off this box of fruit loops. :innocent:

 

[natsound]

I don't think Jersey took Lisa, but I can't help but think he is connected - well he is connected by MW.
Facts
He gives his address at a house 2 minutes walking distance from the Bradwins.
He's been incarcerated for arson in NJ - there was a dumpster fire (not sure of the time, but significant)
He dated MW whose phone recieved a call from one of the missing Bradwin phones
He was seen in the neighborhood that day
He's in jail for tampering with a car - JI's car had been broken into
Conjecture on my part
He was a handyman in the neighborhood and there's a good chance he's asked the Bradwins if they needed anything done

LE may have "moved on", but I just can't yet.

I thought he lived directly across the street for a while too? Isn't that what was said during the report with the fur-cap guy?

 

[RANCH]

There's probably a history with DB and Jersey that we're not privy to yet. I wonder if DB promised a big payback for Jersey if he helped her out in this situation. IF Jersey is involved, I lean toward this being premeditated. I don't think she'd call him in a pinch in the wee hours of the morning to help hide a baby's body, and he just accepted. Plus, we have the phone number written on DB's hand (is this just a rumor or is is there reason to believe it's true?)

A big payback with what? Money? Or?

 

[Meri]

Thank you for the feedback. If baby Lisa were toddler Lisa or preschooler Lisa or elementary school Lisa, I could see a sicko like in the case of Jaycee Duggard, Elizabeth Smart etc. But she's a baby so the normal sick reasons don't seem to apply here.

I don't have a link but could have sworn Cyndy Short said this week that it was false that DB had Jersey's number written on her hand.

Again, clearly KCPD looked at Jersey but they say they have moved on. Why have web sleuthers not?

I took a class around 30 years ago involving law enforcement. The teacher said at that time the youngest known sexually abused child was 1 hour old. I imagine someone has beat that record in these 30 years. It happens to babies more than we would want to know.

 

[DeAnn]

Exactly.

Add to this the fact that MW attaches herself to the crime through her admitted contact on the night of the abduction with one of the phones reported stolen in the abduction. When someone puts themselves in contact with an element of a crime, it's reasonable to consider the likelihood of their involvement in that crime until you can absolutely rule them out with an alibi or other evidence. We've yet to confirm such alibi or evidence.

Also, early on in the crime a man was seen walking with a baby down the street in the area and security camera footage shows a man walking the street nearby that same night. While they are conflicting reports, someone maybe resembling JT - a known recidivist criminal in the area - was reported walking around the area the night of the abduction. Again, it's reasonable to suspect a recidivist in the neighborhood who possibly matches the description until you can rule him or her out with an alibi or other evidence. We've yet to confirm such alibi or evidence.

So you think Steve Young of KCPD is being disingenious? Not being truthful? One of the few definitive things he has said in recent days is that KCPD has looked into Jersey and "moved on." I don't expect them to tell me that alibi or evidence but I do expect them to be honest when making direct seemingly unequivocal statements. They didn't say no comment. They said he has been looked into and they have "moved on."

I have no idea about MW. She baffles me and mystifies me. I do know that John Karr claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey when he did not.

I just think it's more likely at this point that one of the other six people who had access to the phone is involved than Jersey. But that's because I am taking Capt. Young at his word. And why shouldn't I?

I can see why Jersey might be suspecting of burglarizing baby Lisa's home or her parents' vehicle. But steal a baby? Kill a baby? I know all too well that burglars kill but it's usually adults and they usually leave a body behind and not spirit away 10-month-old babies. And how on earth did someone who has a history of getting caught (why he's in jail now) managing to abduct and hide a baby so well that dozens of FBI and KCPD investigators can't figure it out?

 

[DeAnn]

I took a class around 30 years ago involving law enforcement. The teacher said at that time the youngest known sexually abused child was 1 hour old. I imagine someone has beat that record in these 30 years. It happens to babies more than we would want to know.

And I'd bet a nice dinner that the baby was assaulted by a family member, not the neighborhood drifter. It is very rare for a child to be abducted by a stranger.