"Jersey" and MW #2

[NotSoSherlock]

I'm going to throw this out there as a random thought...

I have an uncle who was what you might call a "career criminal." He was a burglar and meth user among other things. I remember hearing about some of the things he would do. One thing that sticks out in particular is he once stole a tractor for someone else in exchange for something. What that something was, I can't remember (I think that it was a 4x4 truck.) Basically some other criminal "contracted-out" my uncle to steal the tractor.

From what we know about JT, it would seem he would have no use for an infant. Could he have abducted BL for a 3rd-party in exchange for something else?

Just thinking out loud. All of this is JMO.

 

[hambirg]

I'm going to throw this out there as a random thought...

I have an uncle who was what you might call a "career criminal." He was a burglar and meth user among other things. I remember hearing about some of the things he would do. One thing that sticks out in particular is he once stole a tractor for someone else in exchange for something. What that something was, I can't remember (I think that it was a 4x4 truck.) Basically some other criminal "contracted-out" my uncle to steal the tractor.

From what we know about JT, it would seem he would have no use for an infant. Could he have abducted BL for a 3rd-party in exchange for something else?

Just thinking out loud. All of this is JMO.

This is a possibility and one that I haven't dismissed.

I don't believe that MW knows anything. I don't think she's involved in any way. She might have her own theories about who tried calling her phone that night however.

If that 11:57 phone call was just an attempt and didn't go through, then I'm inclined to think Dane might not know anything either. He seems to be a somewhat shady character, but I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that he was involved with taking Lisa. He was at that house during the time the call was attempted, so it's not like he could have been at the Bradwin house at that time. KWIM? He however, might have his suspicions and theories too. I think that's why LE would like to talk to him again, but don't think he's a major player.

Jersey, who knows. I'm still wondering if LE knows that he had an airtight alibi. He just might. However, we just don't know. . .maybe he doesn't.

I keep coming back to that Occam's Razor. The truth is that you could be the sleazy lowlife out there, but you can't take a baby if you don't have access to it. :banghead:

 

[cindysue]

I'm going to throw this out there as a random thought...

I have an uncle who was what you might call a "career criminal." He was a burglar and meth user among other things. I remember hearing about some of the things he would do. One thing that sticks out in particular is he once stole a tractor for someone else in exchange for something. What that something was, I can't remember (I think that it was a 4x4 truck.) Basically some other criminal "contracted-out" my uncle to steal the tractor.

From what we know about JT, it would seem he would have no use for an infant. Could he have abducted BL for a 3rd-party in exchange for something else?

Just thinking out loud. All of this is JMO.

This is what I was thinking. The call was a signal that the deed was done.
Maybe all the supposed activity on MW phone that night was lineing up the contact.Which could be the second man that was seen with a baby?

 

[katshep]

I'm going to throw this out there as a random thought...

I have an uncle who was what you might call a "career criminal." He was a burglar and meth user among other things. I remember hearing about some of the things he would do. One thing that sticks out in particular is he once stole a tractor for someone else in exchange for something. What that something was, I can't remember (I think that it was a 4x4 truck.) Basically some other criminal "contracted-out" my uncle to steal the tractor.

From what we know about JT, it would seem he would have no use for an infant. Could he have abducted BL for a 3rd-party in exchange for something else?

Just thinking out loud. All of this is JMO.

That's what I've been saying. JT may have been brought in to act as a lookout while someone else abducts the child or JT abducts the child for a third party. I think the former. JT gets paid with cell phones. MW knew JT and Dane who are both from Platte City and had both been at MW's house. MW said that JT had her cellphone number. I think Dane contracted out JT for another criminal enterprise. The unidentified witness at MW's house identified an agitated Dane using MW's cellphone that night.

 

[NotSoSherlock]

That's what I've been saying. JT may have been brought in to act as a lookout while someone else abducts the child or JT abducts the child for a third party. I think the former. JT gets paid with cell phones. MW knew JT and Dane who are both from Platte City and had both been at MW's house. MW said that JT had her cellphone number. I think Dane contracted out JT for another criminal enterprise. The unidentified witness at MW's house identified an agitated Dane using MW's cellphone that night.

That's a good theory. I would think that JT would require more than just cell phones for taking part in the crime. MW said that JT showed up at her house in a stolen minivan 4 or 5 days after BL went missing. I wonder where the minivan came from?

All JMO.

 

[Sparklin]

I have to admit, I've thought about this "second job" craziness too. So DB sits at home all day, no job, while he slaves insane hours?

And let's remember... idle hands are the devil's playground.

sits at home? She is a say at home mom with three young children. Her house is very clean, her kids look very well fed and cleanly clothed. I'm not sure how much idle time she had...People use to ask me how (and why) my house was so clean with 4 young children and my answer was, because I never stop. My husband was a LEO and he worked shift work, sometimes pay duties...but he would still come home and take care of the kids when I needed him to.

As for his hours, my DH was called in last night, so he could take the hours this morning...could have been the same thing!

 

[KateNY]

That's a good theory. I would think that JT would require more than just cell phones for taking part in the crime. MW said that JT showed up at her house in a stolen minivan 4 or 5 days after BL went missing. I wonder where the minivan came from?

All JMO.

BBM

Interesting...forgot about that van.

Wonder if he 'took' that himself, or came by it via other means, ie
in payment for something. :waitasec:

JMO

 

[NotSoSherlock]

BBM

Interesting...forgot about that van.

Wonder if he 'took' that himself, or came by it via other means, ie
in payment for something. :waitasec:

JMO

I'm going to jump off of your post to add a few more thoughts about this...

First, here is the quote from MW regarding the minivan:

"The last time I talked to/saw Jersey was about a week after I ended the relationship. He walked up the street, tried to talk to me and I got inside as quickly as possible. He ended up being invited in and got into a fight with a friend of mine. He was thrown out of the house and I haven't heard from him since. I was told that he showed up about 4 or 5 days after Lisa went missing in [what happened to be] a stolen mini van. And in less time that I could be told that he was outside, fly up the stairs and get to the porch, he was gone."​

This is from MW's Q&A FB page. I assume we can discuss what MW said on that page based on the rules laid out in this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154311"]MW Defends Herself on Facebook[/ame]​

So far as what's said here, it can be implied that JT may not have come to the house looking for MW but someone else. I wonder if DG (aka DD) was still there when this took place?

 

[katshep]

I'm going to jump off of your post to add a few more thoughts about this...

First, here is the quote from MW regarding the minivan:

"The last time I talked to/saw Jersey was about a week after I ended the relationship. He walked up the street, tried to talk to me and I got inside as quickly as possible. He ended up being invited in and got into a fight with a friend of mine. He was thrown out of the house and I haven't heard from him since. I was told that he showed up about 4 or 5 days after Lisa went missing in [what happened to be] a stolen mini van. And in less time that I could be told that he was outside, fly up the stairs and get to the porch, he was gone."​

This is from MW's Q&A FB page. I assume we can discuss what MW said on that page based on the rules laid out in this thread:

MW Defends Herself on Facebook​

So far as what's said here, it can be implied that JT may not have come to the house looking for MW but someone else. I wonder if DG (aka DD) was still there when this took place?

I did not know these developments. It makes the circle draw closer.
Also, there is a drain or tunnels behind the Irwin house that appear to be some sort of hang out complete with pentagrams. Jim Spellman covered it on CNN on Oct. 20. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxvV2Ndx7R8 Seems to be a good hiding place.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Jersey has a whole new docket, same charge. The other one is gone. New judge too. He was dsiposed today on his other docket.

11/15/2011 Arraignment Scheduled
Scheduled For: 11/23/2011; 8:30 AM ; LARRY DALE HARMAN; Clay

Information Filed

Judge Assigned


WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2011

Judge/Commissioner Time Day Setting Event
LARRY DALE HARMAN 8:30 AM 1 OF 1 Arraignment
Event Text: Location: Division 4 Courtroom Clay
Address: 11 S WATER LIBERTY MO


Charge/Judgment
Description: Tampering With Motor Vehicle - 1st Degree { Felony C RSMo: 569.080 }
Date: 10/13/2011 Code: 2301300
OCN: F7030850 Arresting Agency: KANSAS CITY PD

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/

 

[whodidit]

I don't care how many times Steve Young gets on TV and says they have moved on from Jersey, I don't believe it for one second. Either that, or they are completely incompetent (and I don't think they are). There's no way that this character isn't involved somehow in the disappearance of little Lisa, IMHO. :twocents:

MOO.

Where are you, sweet girl? <3

 

[askfornina]

I don't care how many times Steve Young gets on TV and says they have moved on from Jersey, I don't believe it for one second. Either that, or they are completely incompetent (and I don't think they are). There's no way that this character isn't involved somehow in the disappearance of little Lisa, IMHO. :twocents:

MOO.

Where are you, sweet girl? <3

i totally agree. i am not willing to discount all of these little "coincidences" pointing to Jersey, not for one second. i definitely need more information, but there is no way i could say that i have "moved on" from Jersey and if KCPD have legitimately moved on, i would like to know HOW.

:fence:

 

[Cazzie]

Jersey has a whole new docket, same charge. The other one is gone. New judge too. He was dsiposed today on his other docket.

11/15/2011 Arraignment Scheduled
Scheduled For: 11/23/2011; 8:30 AM ; LARRY DALE HARMAN; Clay

Information Filed

Judge Assigned


WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2011

Judge/Commissioner Time Day Setting Event
LARRY DALE HARMAN 8:30 AM 1 OF 1 Arraignment
Event Text: Location: Division 4 Courtroom Clay
Address: 11 S WATER LIBERTY MO


Charge/Judgment
Description: Tampering With Motor Vehicle - 1st Degree { Felony C RSMo: 569.080 }
Date: 10/13/2011 Code: 2301300
OCN: F7030850 Arresting Agency: KANSAS CITY PD

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/

Can you dumb this down plz? What does this mean?

 

[Jacie Estes]

i totally agree. i am not willing to discount all of these little "coincidences" pointing to Jersey, not for one second. i definitely need more information, but there is no way i could say that i have "moved on" from Jersey and if KCPD have legitimately moved on, i would like to know HOW.

:fence:

BBM

I agree and think MW and the 'person who answered the phone at 8:30am' are part of the scenario. There are too many loose ends to discount this trio.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Can you dumb this down plz? What does this mean?

He's charged with tampering with a car and will be 'visiting' with the judge on the 23rd of November. lol

 

[Jacie Estes]

I'm going to jump off of your post to add a few more thoughts about this...

First, here is the quote from MW regarding the minivan:

"The last time I talked to/saw Jersey was about a week after I ended the relationship. He walked up the street, tried to talk to me and I got inside as quickly as possible. He ended up being invited in and got into a fight with a friend of mine. He was thrown out of the house and I haven't heard from him since. I was told that he showed up about 4 or 5 days after Lisa went missing in [what happened to be] a stolen mini van. And in less time that I could be told that he was outside, fly up the stairs and get to the porch, he was gone."​

This is from MW's Q&A FB page. I assume we can discuss what MW said on that page based on the rules laid out in this thread:

MW Defends Herself on Facebook​

So far as what's said here, it can be implied that JT may not have come to the house looking for MW but someone else. I wonder if DG (aka DD) was still there when this took place?

MW. the drama that keeps on giving. :floorlaugh:

 

[annalia]

Question for those who believe JT is involved.

Why would a homeless druggie want a baby? Nothing else in the home was taken or even disrupted, things that he might have been able to use to get quick cash for drugs. I would think it's much harder to try to sell a baby quickly for drugs.

If the thought is that he already had someone to sell her to, why would that person, or people, be wandering around the neighborhood for hours carrying a baby? I would think that they would have gotten away from there quickly.

JT and MW and the rest of the characters at that house could be involved, but they also could be the perfect scapegoats because of their lifestyle.

JMHO

 

[Jacie Estes]

That would have been me guessing that they used a previous booking picture but I don't see an arrest or docket for it if it was a recent booking. His other booking was from 5/09 and he had long, lighter colored, straight, thin hair. Who knows?
The city jail & county jail aren't as friendly as others I've checked on.

2009 booking. You may have to put his name in again. I have the other one too.

https://web.mo.gov/doc/offSearchWeb/searchOffender.do

Budget cuts.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Question for those who believe JT is involved.

Why would a homeless druggie want a baby? Nothing else in the home was taken or even disrupted, things that he might have been able to use to get quick cash for drugs. I would think it's much harder to try to sell a baby quickly for drugs.

If the thought is that he had someone already to sell it to, why would that person, or people, be wandering around the neighborhood for hours carrying a baby? I would think that they would have gotten away from there quickly.

JT and MW and the rest of the characters at that house could be involved, but they also could be the perfect scapegoats because of their lifestyle.

JMHO

'Nothing else in the home was taken' The phones are missing 'or even disrupted.' We don't know that yet

Adherence to a plan and druggies are not mutually exclusive. Remember, for those who ascribe to the phone theory, once stolen, they didn't work. Not too hard to think that the contact was missed and so other options had to be used. A late night trip to a Waffle house thrown in the mix and it's a possibility.

'homeless druggie' as a low level street crook, could have some higher up crooks that he owes. If he was 'distributing' for someone else and didn't pay up then a way out is 'do this' or else. Babies/kids are a marketable object in the kiddie *advertiser censored* industry, big bucks. 'homeless druggie' is not smart or powerful enough to make $$$$ but he can be squeezed to obtain a baby for someone who will make the benjamins.

 

[cityslick]

Question for those who believe JT is involved.

Why would a homeless druggie want a baby? Nothing else in the home was taken or even disrupted, things that he might have been able to use to get quick cash for drugs. I would think it's much harder to try to sell a baby quickly for drugs.

If the thought is that he already had someone to sell her to, why would that person, or people, be wandering around the neighborhood for hours carrying a baby? I would think that they would have gotten away from there quickly.

JT and MW and the rest of the characters at that house could be involved, but they also could be the perfect scapegoats because of their lifestyle.

JMHO

BBM

You're correct, but I was wondering. I could replace the initials of your statement with DB and JI and perhaps change the word 'lifestyle' to 'choices with LE' and it would be the same point.