"Jersey" and MW

[cowtowner]

I have searched for the link, but there was quite a bit of confusion over this and I remember reading that a hrdog will not hit on blood, unless it comes from a dead body. So, in any way you look at it, the dog hit on SOMETHING dead in that house.

Correction, Per Sarx's post quoted below, "the dog hit on either something dead or something that came into contact with something dead in that house." (big difference)

HRD dogs will also hit on what is called transfer scent. Say you touch your dead grandmother and then grab your phone, they'll hit on the phone as well.

Yes, they will hit on buried, how far depends on the training. 18 inches to 3 ft. is standard, and the more training and the higher your certification rating the deeper you go. Dogs have been trained and have had great success at 15 to 20 ft.

 

[RANCH]

I'm lost. Is this the cadaver dog thread?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152518"]Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[TheDuchess]

What I'd like to know is if there was a dead body in that room, where is the vehicle to transport the body to whatever location it's at now? Did the dogs check that if there is one?

There wouldn't necessarily need to be a dead body on the floor if someone took the baby, who perhaps had recently expired and the person was carrying that baby around and then took off their shirt and layed it on the floor and transferred the scent that way. JMO - and I'm a IDI person at the moment.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Mountain Kat and Pensfan: Mea Culpa. I need more coffee! I did not write what I meant to! I edited my post to read:

I think you are right on. I am starting to believe that DB did have a working cell phone that night.

I can picture DB, GSB, and SB sitting on the steps drinking wine. Jersey strolls by the house and knows one or more of the porch sitters. DB and Jersey decide to get back in touch later on, and that is why DB writes down MW's communal phone number on her hand.

Instead of dialing the number into her contacts on her phone, where JI might see it, DB writes it on her hand to call the MW communal phone later on that night (8-8:30)

Would also love to know if there is a link between the GPS advertised by MW on craigslist, and the car prowl reported by DB.

Sleuthers? Can you help me punch holes in my own theory?

Thank you for keeping me straight!

If I had a number I didn't want to be seen on my phone, I would just not use my phone to make that call. It would still appear in call log on the phone, and even if deleted from there, it'd show up on the bill (as far as I know).

 

[Mountain_Kat]

As was stated in the HRD thread (thanks SARX)

HRD dogs will also hit on what is called transfer scent. Say you touch your dead grandmother and then grab your phone, they'll hit on the phone as well.​

The fact that the dogs hit in the bedroom does not establish that there was ever a dead body in that room.

So Jersey (and/or Megan) kidnapped Lisa, killed her, and then crept back through the window and touched Debbie's stuff? :waitasec:

Yikes, this guy really IS scary.

 

[In da Middle]

I have searched for the link, but there was quite a bit of confusion over this and I remember reading that a hrdog will not hit on blood, unless it comes from a dead body. So, in any way you look at it, the dog hit on SOMETHING dead in that house.

If you look at the dog thread, Oriah, I believe stated that there is a spot where a very much alive Oriah bled and it wasn't cleaned up for a while and the dogs will hit that spot.

 

[Darcyline]

Would a defense attorney be able to use LE repeatedly clearing Jersey of any involvement against the case if they do end up charging him?

 

[josie1986]

So Jersey (and/or Megan) kidnapped Lisa, killed her, and then crept back through the window and touched Debbie's stuff? :waitasec:

Yikes, this guy really IS scary.

:floorlaugh:

i love your posts,you say the sarcastic things i really want to :seeya:

 

[katshep]

Nice catch.

Again, as told to me directly from retired LE:

"over 90% of the time when a baby is kidnapped, the person who did it is a woman, in her 20s, overweight or obese who has a history of mental instability."
\
OVER NINETY PERCENT!

(I also freely admit that DB fits the same description (not sure about history of mental instability) -- so I don't completely rule her out. I just focus more on MW and Jersey because of the recidivist, criminal element tied in.)

I did a lot of parental kidnapping cases (international as well) in my career. MW admits that she was the victim of parental kidnapping. One of the effects of parental abduction is reactive attachment disorder which is characterized in DSM IV with the following characteristics: (I have highlighted a few that seem applicable from what I have seen of MW.)

1. Unable to engage in satisfying reciprocal relationships;

2. Superficially engaging, charming (not genuine);

3. Lack of eye contact;
4. Indiscriminately affectionate with strangers;

5. Lack of ability to give and receive affection on parents' terms (not cuddly);

6. Inappropriately demanding and clingy;

7. Poor peer relationships;

8. Low self esteem;

9. Affectionate with strangers or attempts to leave with strangers;

10. Refuses, resists, or is uncomfortable with affection on parental terms;

11. Incessant chatter or nonsense questions;

12. Hyperactive, over-active, or attention deficit;

13. Poor, underdeveloped, or no conscience;

14. Hoarding, gorging, eating abnormalities, or hiding food;

15. Intense control battles;

16. Significant learning problems or lags;

17. Fire setting, fire play, or fascination with fire;
18. Daily lying or lying in the face of the obvious;
19. Fascination with weapons, blood, or gore;

20. Destructive to self or others; and

21. Cruelty to animals, siblings, or others.

Just something to think about if you are interested in profiling.

 

[TheDuchess]

If you look at the dog thread, Oriah, I believe stated that there is a spot where a very much alive Oriah bled and it wasn't cleaned up for a while and the dogs will hit that spot.

Who is Oriah?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

:floorlaugh:

i love your posts,you say the sarcastic things i really want to :seeya:

I wasn't being sarcastic, I'm genuinely befuddled. :innocent:

 

[josie1986]

Who is Oriah?

SAR expert

 

[cowtowner]

respectfully snipped

Then what are cadaver dogs for? Why bring them in at all?

As was stated by Sarx early in the thread, the HRDs are one small aspect of the case:

<snipped> These are experienced handlers with experience in their track records, and they are just one small aspect of the case. With the recent happenings with dogs though, I am betting they have their i's dotted and t's crossed though.

Police have to develop leads, especially if the woman in the house with the child who disappeared can't or won't answer pertinent questions. IMO, police developed a lead with the cadaver dog hit... a lead that Lisa is no longer with us.

yes, they have to develop leads. And they use the results of the HRD's search to help them develop that lead. However, one cannot definitively say "The dog hit so __X__ is what happened."

The dog made "a hit." Assuming this is a well-trained dog and a well-trained, competent handler (no reason to doubt they were anything less) this means that either a dead body was there or something that came into contact with a dead body was there.

Within the context of the other facts we have this fact simply doesn't shed a lot of light.

 

[StrayKat]

and it wasnt a dead kitty :innocent:

Although, the kitty could be the transfer. JMO

 

[norest4thewicked]

Correction, Per Sarx's post quoted below, "the dog hit on either something dead or something that came into contact with something dead in that house." (big difference)

Regardless of the different opinions on this, the bottom line is that there is a baby missing, and a HRD hit on something in the house. And, in addition to that, we don't know if there wasn't a dozen more dogs paraded through that house and they all hit. One hit, to me, is enough, considering there is a baby missing. But, that's just me.

 

[In da Middle]

dog thread
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152258"]Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[katshep]

If I had a number I didn't want to be seen on my phone, I would just not use my phone to make that call. It would still appear in call log on the phone, and even if deleted from there, it'd show up on the bill (as far as I know).

Not on a prepaid phone with prepaid minutes. There is no bill. Those phones and cards can be bought at the WalMart. You do not have to give anyone your name, ssn, address or any other identification. Pay in cash and go. If you delete the history, destroy the SIM card, if any, and get rid of the battery and dispose of the phone immediately and get out of the area immediately after the call, it makes it very tough to track.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

*sets bottle of aspirin on table and slowly backs out of thread*

 

[yllek]

I agree...
"We spoke to him" is the preceding statement.

Okay. If anyone interprets the below official statement to mean that LE interviewed Jersey, cleared him, spoke with him and are moving on = LE interviewed Jersey, cleared him, spoke with him and are therefore "moving on back to Jersey", okay then. I agree to disagree and don't think it's worth further discussion; just very different interpretations. I take the statement below to mean that after interviewing, clearing, and speaking with Jersey, LE is moving on in other directions. JMO...

Official Statement:
Kansas City Police Department spokesman Steve Young said he could not discuss investigators interviews with Wright. However, Young did say the man known as "Jersey" has been interviewed and cleared of any involvement in the baby's disappearance. "We spoke to him and are moving on," Young said.

 

[natsound]

However, one cannot definitively say "The dog hit so __X__ is what happened."

respectfully snipped

No, but one can say "the dog hit so there's good indication that _x_ happened (_x_ being a dead body was here). "

Otherwise, why use cadaver dogs at all?