JLM Charged in Morgan Harrington murder

[jamicat]

I feel that this post is relevant here...so I'm copy and pasting this from the forensic link thread...not trying to start another debate, just want those who are asking these questions to have something to refer to.


I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here so there is no confusion on this...plus that took me some time...lol


http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlin...228257121.html

http://www.turnto10.com/story/264312...lved-mysteries

http://news.sky.com/story/1344748/ha...to-2009-murder


- See more at: http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/....l5xs2ecu.dpuf
http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/...nd-guilty.html

https://gma.yahoo.com/suspect-hannah...opstories.html
Edited to add that we have gone over this topic 1000 times, somehow it always goes back to this. DNA that was on the Tshirt was Morgan's thats how they know it is indeed hers. Also his DNA might be on it as well, but as you see the DNA came from her body. LE is not going to come right out and say these things, Morgan's parents however, have said them many times that I remember, and I don't think that if your child died in such a manner you'd be making assumptions, you would know what happened to your child. You would/could never forget. JMO
BBM bolded italicized and underlined Virginia State police for emphasis
Edited yet again to add that a couple of my links in this post no longer work because I copy and pasted from post #1151 in the previous thread, but all links still work there.

Last edited by Heroine; 10-15-2014 at 03:13 PM.

MH's parents have definitely said things that are likely speculation. They are amateurs at this, dragged into it in the most horrific way, so it cannot be expected that they would take such care in sematics, musings etc. There is no evidence outside of the parents' statement, for instance, that more than one perp was involved. Also they clear are not "the last" to be told things about the case.

The evidence is not so clear as the Fairfax case, as the DA is not moving forward on this case. With that Fairfax rape the DNA taken by rape kit and JM's buccal swab, the link was unmistakably clear, IMO. In the MH case, not so much. Hopefully, enough evidence is put together for heavy duty charges here.

 

[Heroine]

What if the DNA were from seminal fluid or blood? If JM's DNA was recovered from either of those two wouldn't that be considered a strong link?

I guess, but given where it was found anyone could have put that blood there or pardon the expression, gizzed on it...lol...dont know any other way to put that nicely. Not saying most people go around doing these things, but it's the exposure to everyone that makes me think it wouldn't be considered a strong link.

 

[Dear Prudence]

What if the DNA recovered was from seminal fluid or blood? If JM's DNA was recovered from either of those two wouldn't that be considered a strong link?

Yes, I agree that would be a strong link.

Plus, couldn't JM's DNA be both on the t-shirt and at the scene where Morgan was found? Was her other clothing found with her body? May be DNA on that or her body.

 

[mirv22]

I guess, but given where it was found anyone could have put that blood there or pardon the expression, gizzed on it...lol...dont know any other way to put that nicely. Not saying most people go around doing these things, but it's the exposure to everyone that makes me think it wouldn't be considered a strong link.

I mean really....why mince words? LOL

 

[ksj3]

http://www.wtop.com/120/3727505/Man...e-linking-Harrington-murder-Fairfax-rape-case

Here's the other half of the above story.

 

[klily444]

"The shirt. Morgan Harrington's mother calls it "pivotal" because authorities said it connected her daughter's death-- which in turn was forensically linked to the recent disappearance of Hannah Graham-- back to a 2005 rape in the city of Fairfax."

It was DNA from the shirt (according to this).

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....127729820712915.28623.100004276931535&type=1

I don't think they know any more than we do. If the article said that they talked to LE, and this is breaking news, etc., I would be more interested. JMO.

 

[Deba]

I guess, but given where it was found anyone could have put that blood there or pardon the expression, gizzed on it...lol...dont know any other way to put that nicely. Not saying most people go around doing these things, but it's the exposure to everyone that makes me think it wouldn't be considered a strong link.

But if that were the case then it would contain a mixture of DNA which would be a whole other can of worms. Exposure could apply either way I guess, to the shirt or Morgan's body. But in that case (exposure) I think the DNA would be degraded and you would not be able to recover a significant profile. And I don't think exposure necessarily means degradation or contamination of DNA.

Anyways, as I posted above, I don't think this latest will add any clarity to the subject. I still tend to lean towards the link coming from Morgan's body. However, for all we know the link could have come from both Morgan and the shirt which I think would add greater weight to it evidentiary value.

 

[Daae]

The t-shirt was pivotal because it was found before her body was found. Maybe there was DNA on both the body and the shirt but the shirt was pivotal in its timing. What if there was vomit on the t-shirt which tied back to am attempted murder in Fairfax.

 

[Deba]

http://www.wtop.com/120/3727505/Man...e-linking-Harrington-murder-Fairfax-rape-case

Here's the other half of the above story.

It was in April 2010 the shirt information was released (as Morgan's) but not until July 2010 that the forensic link between the Fairfax rape and Morgan's murder was released. I find it somewhat difficult to believe the VSP would give that information to the student who found the shirt when they were keeping things pretty quiet as far as the investigation was concerned.

 

[sarah7855]

I guess, but given where it was found anyone could have put that blood there or pardon the expression, gizzed on it...lol...dont know any other way to put that nicely. Not saying most people go around doing these things, but it's the exposure to everyone that makes me think it wouldn't be considered a strong link.

Yes, I agree that would be a strong link.

Plus, couldn't JM's DNA be both on the t-shirt and at the scene where Morgan was found? Was her other clothing found with her body? May be DNA on that or her body.

Thank you, lol, I was sitting here trying to figure out how to politely word that and you took care of it for me

For LE to state that there was a definite link between Morgan and Fairfax, the DNA on the shirt had to be a mixture of JM's and Morgan's. Otherwise, as you said, blood or semen alone isn't a strong enough link. Also, I agree with Dear Prudence and believe that there was more DNA with her remains, providing that definitive link. Yes, she was skeletonized, but there was clothing and the bracelet she was wearing that likely provided a lot of DNA. Look at her bracelet. I can't imagine there NOT being a ton of DNA embedded in that thing after a violent attack. Morgan's parents have stated repeatedly that she was raped. I hate to be so graphic, but there was likely DNA and possibly blood all over her clothing which indicated that she'd been raped. I think that her Pantera shirt is only one piece of the puzzle.

 

[Moonchime]

I understand what you're saying and there has been much debate about this. What I will say is you don't see a whole lot of articles state that the DNA came from her shirt, so I'm not sure if that's rumor or just something that wasn't really made all that public. It's hard to say. The only reason I believe it came from her body is because it's been stated over and over again by her parents.

I agree. The DNA was also on Morgan's remains. The Harrington's have remained stoic on this fact. LE didn't even mention the finding of Morgan's tee shirt until 5 months after it was found! The Harrington's didn't either--at LE's request.

I find Gil Harrington to be a very intuitive person. She kept warning the citizens of Charlottesville that there was a violent predator in their midst. Whenever she spoke out or the Harrington's visited Copeley Bridge, and the news would report it, the comment section was filled with nasty comments in essence telling the family to go away already!

Now we know that Gil Harrington was told by LE that they would find Morgan's killer. However, that would likely come at the cost of another young ladies life. Gil then decided to begin the "Help Save the Next Girl" foundation.

Sadly, LE was correct, and they have found Morgan's killer. It cost Hannah Graham her life. It's all so very heart breaking and sad.

 

[cluciano63]

The information wasn't made public until July 2010. By then DNA tests had been conducted on both the shirt (found Nov. 2009) and Morgan's body (found Jan. 2010). I believe it was public in April 2010 that the shirt belonged to Morgan (which I assume was done by DNA testing).

The reason I believe the DNA came from Morgan's body is due to when the information was released re: the Fairfax rapist - in July 2010 which would be about the time the DNA results and running it through the database would be back. (IIRC this information was released very reluctantly on the part of VSP but would have to re-read archived articles to be certain.)

So they maybe knew they had a mobile serial killer/rapist and kept quiet for up to five or six months?

 

[Deba]

So they maybe knew they had a mobile serial killer/rapist and kept quiet for up to five or six months?

No, if the shirt is the, or one of the, forensic links they would have kept quiet from April until July 2010 which would be three months at the most. Even if there was DNA recovered from Morgan's shirt which was a/the forensic link, they may have been waiting for the DNA to come back from Morgan's body before releasing any information.

 

[Heroine]

I'm sorry if I started this debate again! But hey, At least this thread is moving along now...lol

 

[stillwatersc]

The t-shirt was pivotal because it was found before her body was found. Maybe there was DNA on both the body and the shirt but the shirt was pivotal in its timing. What if there was vomit on the t-shirt which tied back to am attempted murder in Fairfax.

That is a good thought. Someone could have used the t-shirt to wipe their face/hands after vomiting.

 

[Moonchime]

Okay here is a question that might answer our questions, when did they make the link between the fairfax rapist and the DNA for MH? If it was before the shirt was found then we know the DNA came from another source. Does anyone know that answer?

It was after Morgan's body was found that they released the information regarding a DNA connection to "Sketch."

 

[Heroine]

It was after Morgan's body was found that they released the information regarding a DNA connection to "Sketch."

If that's true then that answers it for me. Thank you!

 

[Concerned Mama]

MH's parents have definitely said things that are likely speculation. They are amateurs at this, dragged into it in the most horrific way, so it cannot be expected that they would take such care in sematics, musings etc. There is no evidence outside of the parents' statement, for instance, that more than one perp was involved. Also they clear are not "the last" to be told things about the case.

The evidence is not so clear as the Fairfax case, as the DA is not moving forward on this case. With that Fairfax rape the DNA taken by rape kit and JM's buccal swab, the link was unmistakably clear, IMO. In the MH case, not so much. Hopefully, enough evidence is put together for heavy duty charges here.

bbm

I'm not nit-picking here, but I'll have to go back and find the article that stated that they were able to get the perp's DNA from the blood on the Fairfax victim and from underneath her fingernails where she fought back. We don't know the exact condition of Morgan's remains, but we can assume that fingernails would have still been there just three months after her death, and possibly, trace amounts of flesh and blood underneath one or more of them, providing DNA from the perp.

We've been arguing over where the DNA came from to link Morgan's killer to the Fairfax rapist, but it seems entirely plausible that it was both the shirt and the body to me.

As for Hawes Spencer's "big story"? More speculation headed our way. How can we possibly know for a fact whether the shirt was left as a taunt or as a way of leading LE on a false trail?

 

[Le Singe]

:thinking: Actually, some of the most convincing trials are based on well-established circumstantial evidence. We have all heard of the fallacy of "eye-witness" identification and accounts. I think there is a very strong murder case being constructed. I understand the adversarial, American legal system and the necessity of "proving" the prosecution's case. Every defendant is entitled to competent legal representation, but Mr. Camblos might do well to have his client follow the likes of John Gardener (Amber Dubois and Chelsea King murders) who plead guilty and saved the families from enduring the lengthy trial and sentencing.

Grabbing the national spotlight is only temporary. Being keenly attuned to needs of the innocents that suffer through trials, including the accused's family and friends, does seem like taking the higher road. The almost automatic "not guilty" that defense attorneys are prone to support is counter-productive to the greater good, IMO. (And, I come from a family that includes lawyers and judges...) Just saying...

IMO for the greater good of our society the only "high road" for him to take is that which is in the best interest of his client. I have from the very start thought he was guiltier than hell of both this and morgan, but what if the 0.001% chance that he is innocent was true. Everyone no matter who they are deserves a vigorous defense, it makes the convictions more legit. It does suck for the families, but as they say freedom isn't free an one of the price of having a free and open society is we have to deal with this.

 

[Le Singe]

This is really confusing...On July 1, 2010, the forensic link between MH and Fairfax was announced, and Dan Harrington said it was related to DNA was found on MH. Then, less than two weeks later, it's reported that the Harrington's think two people were involved. I understand there was confusion on two separate crimes being so far apart, but when you have the DNA match on both the remains and the rape, why would they think there may have been two people involved? These statements seem contradictory, especially when Dan mentions the location of the shirt.

http://www.wlox.com/story/12742496/update-morgan-harringtons-death-linked-to-case-in-fairfax
UPDATE: Morgan Harrington's death linked to case in Fairfax
Jul 01, 2010

"Investigators will only say that forensic evidence ties the suspect to Morgan Harrington's abduction and murder in Charlottesville. But Harrington's parents confirmed this afternoon it was DNA found on Morgan that matches the suspect in the Fairfax case."

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/h...cle_d26c5039-b998-57b8-a9d6-cf24c98f6035.html
Harringtons suspect 2 were involved in daughter's death
July 18, 2010

The parents of Morgan D. Harrington, the 20-year-old who vanished after a Metallica concert in Oc-tober, said Saturday that they believe two people were involved in their daughter’s disappearance.

Virginia State Police announced July 1 that forensic evidence shows a man who abducted and sexu-ally assaulted a woman in 2005 in Fairfax came into contact with Harrington. The man was never identified, and the Virginia Tech student’s body was discovered in January on a southern Albemarle County farm.

Dan Harrington, Morgan Harrington’s father, said it was unlikely that a person from outside the area would have just happened upon the pasture where she was found. “How does a person from Northern Virginia know about 15th Street?” Dan Harrington asked. “It’s not a place you happen to find.”

I don't know the answer but for everyone who ever questions why LE doesn't want to give anything out and doesn't want people speculating publicly THIS is why. Statements like this help the defense a lot, hopefully not enough but they help a lot.