JLM Charged in Morgan Harrington murder

[Le Singe]

Pls forgive me for asking this but I forgot a lot of details about MH's case and I didn't manage yet to read everything new out there about these connections....

IIRC they linked MH's murder to the rape case a few years ago,no?then why no arrest?

am a bit confused here...

if you mean way back then, then the answer is no suspect. If you mean now just sit tight ill bet you anything that its coming.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Tink56 View Post
Actually, some of the most convincing trials are based on well-established circumstantial evidence. We have all heard of the fallacy of "eye-witness" identification and accounts. I think there is a very strong murder case being constructed. I understand the adversarial, American legal system and the necessity of "proving" the prosecution's case. Every defendant is entitled to competent legal representation, but Mr. Camblos might do well to have his client follow the likes of John Gardener (Amber Dubois and Chelsea King murders) who plead guilty and saved the families from enduring the lengthy trial and sentencing.

Grabbing the national spotlight is only temporary. Being keenly attuned to needs of the innocents that suffer through trials, including the accused's family and friends, does seem like taking the higher road. The almost automatic "not guilty" that defense attorneys are prone to support is counter-productive to the greater good, IMO. (And, I come from a family that includes lawyers and judges...) Just saying...

<BBM for Focus>

Families Lash Out at Sexual Predator/Serial Killer John Gardner - Killer Becomes Enraged at One of his Victims
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CraYOJNhcuE

 

[Le Singe]

Yes, I agree that would be a strong link.

Plus, couldn't JM's DNA be both on the t-shirt and at the scene where Morgan was found? Was her other clothing found with her body? May be DNA on that or her body.

i don't think its a strong link if there was no DNA from JLM found on or around MHs remains that is a big blow to the case, hopefully they could still get a conviction, but it hurts. I'm holding out hope the reporters got it wrong or just failed to mention it was also found on the body.

 

[Le Singe]

I don't think they know any more than we do. If the article said that they talked to LE, and this is breaking news, etc., I would be more interested. JMO.

see thats what worries me they teased this article on twitter saying they had something new ... the only thing in that article that was remotely "new" is if they are reporting the match came from the shirt only ... unless they are talking about the pointless two question "interview" they did with the dude that found the shirt.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
Pls forgive me for asking this but I forgot a lot of details about MH's case and I didn't manage yet to read everything new out there about these connections....

IIRC they linked MH's murder to the rape case a few years ago,no?then why no arrest?

am a bit confused here.

The dna from the 2005 Fairfax rape and dna collected in MH's murderer investigation was entered into FBI CODIS, and there was a match, yet JM's dna had yet to be entered into the CODIS database because he was never prosecuted for a felony. Imo, this is why JM jumped through hoops in the aggravated assault of the VA attorney in the road rage incident. JM knew that his dna would be a match for the two heinous crimes/game over.. When JM skated on this felony, as he had many times before.. This escape from justice only empowered him, to continue his evil trail of terror...jmo

 

[Quill]

<BBM for Focus>

Families Lash Out at Sexual Predator/Serial Killer John Gardner - Killer Becomes Enraged at One of his Victims
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CraYOJNhcuE

The rage inside the animal peeked through there, didn't it?

 

[Le Singe]

It was after Morgan's body was found that they released the information regarding a DNA connection to "Sketch."

6 month after ... which was only 7 or 7.5 months after they found the shirt.

 

[Foxfire]

The rage inside the animal peeked through there, didn't it?

Yes it did Quill... 'Good John---->Evil John'...

 

[Tink56]

IMO for the greater good of our society the only "high road" for him to take is that which is in the best interest of his client. I have from the very start thought he was guiltier than hell of both this and morgan, but what if the 0.001% chance that he is innocent was true. Everyone no matter who they are deserves a vigorous defense, it makes the convictions more legit. It does suck for the families, but as they say freedom isn't free an one of the price of having a free and open society is we have to deal with this.

Actually, if the defendant is willing to plead out, IMO he/she should have that right and not be encouraged by legal counsel to take the case to trial. If the client desires to plead guilty, and the attorney thinks they should make the state prove the case, that is a preference not necessarily what is "best" for the client. You'll note that I mentioned that I "get" the legal system.

I was responding to Spicer2000 who indicated it would a great case for Camblos because of the national exposure and the circumstantial nature of the evidence revealed thus far. IMO, taking a case for free publicity and name recognition is not part of the greater good either.

As to your repetition of the phrase "freedom isn't free," I agree. But, sitting through years of delays, trials, presentations of the gruesome details of a child's death might also be called "cruel and unusual punishment."

I really do understand the need for a vigorous strong defense, if one's client wishes to fight the charges. But, I am also keenly aware that trials are seldom speedy anymore and justice is not swift. The pain of losing a child is forever, however.

 

[Le Singe]

for what its worth on of the authors tweeted me this.

Neal Augenstein &#8207;@AugensteinWTOP 4m4 minutes ago
@1billy1 @HawesSpencer don't know if other DNA found but VSP said shirt was link between MH and Fairfax

 

[Le Singe]

Actually, if the defendant is willing to plead out, IMO he/she should have that right and not be encouraged by legal counsel to take the case to trial. If the client desires to plead guilty, and the attorney thinks they should make the state prove the case, that is a preference not necessarily what is "best" for the client. You'll note that I mentioned that I "get" the legal system.

I was responding to Spicer2000 who indicated it would a great case for Camblos because of the national exposure and the circumstantial nature of the evidence revealed thus far. IMO, taking a case for free publicity and name recognition is not part of the greater good either.

As to your repetition of the phrase "freedom isn't free," I agree. But, sitting through years of delays, trials, presentations of the gruesome details of a child's death might also be called "cruel and unusual punishment."

I really do understand the need for a vigorous strong defense, if one's client wishes to fight the charges. But, I am also keenly aware that trials are seldom speedy anymore and justice is not swift. The pain of losing a child is forever, however.

The defendant always has the final say but the attorney needs to explain all the options and the pluses and minus of each, what other point would there be for appoint someone an attorney. If this wasn't the case the people who were not intelligent, not well educated, not well off, and/or not very knowledgeable of the ins and outs of the legal system would get a much harsher treatment by the justice system.

If your saying that the attorney should not advise the client to go to trial just because its what is best for the attorney, even though it might not be best for the defendant then i misunderstood you obviously this would be wrong as I pretty sure illegal. Because he is not doing what is best for his client. But if you are saying, which I thought you were, that the Defense attorney should advise his client not to fight the charges even if it is in his best interest to fight them ... out of compassion for the victims family then I don't think thats right even though I'm sure thats what most of us would want to do.

As to your repetition of the phrase "freedom isn't free," I agree. But, sitting through years of delays, trials, presentations of the gruesome details of a child's death might also be called "cruel and unusual punishment."

I really do understand the need for a vigorous strong defense, if one's client wishes to fight the charges. But, I am also keenly aware that trials are seldom speedy anymore and justice is not swift. The pain of losing a child is forever, however.

What i'm trying to say is that dealing with these trial which do suck and are long and drawn out is a necessary evil that has to be endured even though it is almost always as you say "cruel and unusual punishment".

 

[AVIXEN]

The dna from the 2005 Fairfax rape and dna collected in MH's murderer investigation was entered into FBI CODIS, and there was a match, yet JM's dna had yet to be entered into the CODIS database because he was never prosecuted for a felony. Imo, this is why JM jumped through hoops in the aggravated assault of the VA attorney in the road rage incident. JM knew that his dna would be a match for the two heinous crimes/game over.. When JM skated on this felony, as he had many times before.. This escape from justice only empowered him, to continue his evil trail of terror...jmo

I agree with you about his motivations for having the grand theft charge (the assault charge that arose from the same case was a misdemeanor) dropped. The date of the last continuance on the case, 10/22/09, is all too soon after he abducted Morgan for it to not be significant. If there is one thing I have learned about this case is that NOTHING has been a coincidence. Plus we know that JM was not opposed to fighting charges against him through the court system RE: Trespassing charge and subsequent appeal.

 

[AVIXEN]

I agree with you about his motivations for having the grand theft charge (the assault charge that arose from the same case was a misdemeanor) dropped. The date of the last continuance on the case, 10/22/09, is all too soon after he abducted Morgan for it to not be significant. If there is one thing I have learned about this case is that NOTHING has been a coincidence. Plus we know that JM was not opposed to fighting charges against him through the court system RE: Trespassing charge and subsequent appeal.

What is strange to me is his placement of Morgan's shirt downtown a few weeks after her murder. If he was paranoid about the pending felony case forensically linking him to the attack in Fairfax, why take the risky step of producing and publicly displaying more evidence in Morgan's disappearance that possibly (and ultimately did) link him to Morgan? Was he just that bold and conceited or are the signs here pointing to a third party? What do y'all think?

Could that possibly be why the Harringtons thought there was more than one person involved and were adamant in saying 'someone knows something'?

 

[Deba]

What is strange to me is his placement of Morgan's shirt downtown a few weeks after her murder. If he was paranoid about the pending felony case forensically linking him to the attack in Fairfax, why take the risky step of producing and publicly displaying more evidence in Morgan's disappearance that possibly (and ultimately did) link him to Morgan? Was he just that bold and conceited or are the signs here pointing to a third party? What do y'all think?

Could that possibly be why the Harringtons thought there was more than one person involved and were adamant in saying 'someone knows something'?

Yeah, this has puzzled me, too. Her purse and phone were found in the RV lot but that probably occurred before she met/was confronted by JM and have absolutely nothing to do with him (I don't believe there has been any forensic link released concerning these items, i.e. DNA). You would think he would know what might be on the shirt - blood, seminal fluid, etc. having been the murderer. Maybe he just didn't understand DNA recovery and its use as evidence.

I have read theories concerning her shirt, most are comments on articles and many point to third party involvement. Who knows?

 

[Concerned Mama]

for what its worth on of the authors tweeted me this.

Neal Augenstein &#8207;@AugensteinWTOP 4m4 minutes ago
@1billy1 @HawesSpencer don't know if other DNA found but VSP said shirt was link between MH and Fairfax

I'm still not convinced the dna came ONLY from the shirt. Since the shirt was discovered about two months prior to Morgan's body being recovered, I could see interpreting that statement as "VSP said shirt was [the first]* link between MH and Fairfax."

* added by me, not VSP

 

[Concerned Mama]

What is strange to me is his placement of Morgan's shirt downtown a few weeks after her murder. If he was paranoid about the pending felony case forensically linking him to the attack in Fairfax, why take the risky step of producing and publicly displaying more evidence in Morgan's disappearance that possibly (and ultimately did) link him to Morgan? Was he just that bold and conceited or are the signs here pointing to a third party? What do y'all think?

Pure speculation on my part, but I did post a while ago that perhaps one of JLM's loved ones found the shirt, didn't know what to think, and rather than confront him, placed it in a visible location for LE to find and prove/disprove.

Extremely unlikely, I know, especially since it was placed near JLM's place of employment at that time. Still, if we're talking Was it at all possible? it's a (admittedly unlikely) theory.

 

[klily444]

Yeah, this has puzzled me, too. Her purse and phone were found in the RV lot but that probably occurred before she met/was confronted by JM and have absolutely nothing to do with him (I don't believe there has been any forensic link released concerning these items, i.e. DNA). You would think he would know what might be on the shirt - blood, seminal fluid, etc. having been the murderer. Maybe he just didn't understand DNA recovery and its use as evidence.

I have read theories concerning her shirt, most are comments on articles and many point to third party involvement. Who knows?

If JM knew where Morgan originated, placing the purse and phone in the RV lot would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it?

 

[Deba]

If JM knew where Morgan originated, placing the purse and phone in the RV lot would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it?

True.

 

[ninij9]

What is strange to me is his placement of Morgan's shirt downtown a few weeks after her murder. If he was paranoid about the pending felony case forensically linking him to the attack in Fairfax, why take the risky step of producing and publicly displaying more evidence in Morgan's disappearance that possibly (and ultimately did) link him to Morgan? Was he just that bold and conceited or are the signs here pointing to a third party? What do y'all think?

Could that possibly be why the Harringtons thought there was more than one person involved and were adamant in saying 'someone knows something'?

Perhaps a family member, friend or coworker found shirt and placed it there because they thought maybe their JM had something to do with it but they weren't sure? They were afraid maybe?

 

[jamicat]

What is strange to me is his placement of Morgan's shirt downtown a few weeks after her murder. If he was paranoid about the pending felony case forensically linking him to the attack in Fairfax, why take the risky step of producing and publicly displaying more evidence in Morgan's disappearance that possibly (and ultimately did) link him to Morgan? Was he just that bold and conceited or are the signs here pointing to a third party? What do y'all think?

Could that possibly be why the Harringtons thought there was more than one person involved and were adamant in saying 'someone knows something'?

It is possible that JM did not display the shirt though he did rape/kill Morgan. What the Harringtons had to endure from people after news of what happened to Morgan was so cruel. Comments unbelievably rude, hurtful, even from Morgan's friends who lawyered up. That the Harringtons continued the way they did says much for their strenght. I greatly admire them and doubt that I, or most people could have persevered the way they did. I would not be surprised a bit if someone other than JM found that shirt and displayed it. Very possible other DNA is on the shirt other than MH's and JM's. Would be surprised if that were not the case.

It is also possible JM did have company when he picked up MH and that someone else was involved. If that's the case, it's highly likely that JM will "tell". We'll find out when the case goes to trial. If it does not, it's possible that enough confusing evidence was there to make a conviciton difficult, and the DA might want to allow the stronger cases to cover this. A lot of resources have been expended on JM already at the cost of others who may have been in need of them.