i would presume that friend has already been contacted by LE
JLM: What Do We Know About Him? - #2
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i would presume that friend has already been contacted by LE
I don't like to make blanket statements, but based on what we know about JM, I think he is on the outer periphery of a youth culture that views sexuality differently than previous generations. (You're thinking, "We'll, duhhhhh."). During the heyday of "sex, drugs, and rock&roll,", there was also a very strong concurrent feminist movement, which in my experience with youth over many years is fading--bigtime. This generation often socializes in groups, not just couples, and with that "equality" there seems to be no special status for women. At the risk of sounding ancient, chivalry is dead. Obviously, JM's alleged behavior is far beyond anybody's idea of appropriateness, and I'm not blaming anyone but the culprit, but we need to have a national conversation about all this, IMHO only, of course.
Editing to add: The bouncer said "victim", the friend use the word, "prowler"--and yet (apparently) no one questioned his behavior in a "Call the authorities" sense.
Thank you again. I'm not sure what to ask, you've been following the threads and probably have better sense at what should be considered. Do you know by the way, did lj ever go to summer camp or anything akin?
Is there one in the area use/unused?
Many were curious about parties, social occassions, hangouts he may have been or places that he may have been with friends.
Where were these hangouts? Closer to his friend near Stoney Point?
Spicer2000
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Newcomer here and am personally connected LJ. I can assure you that his girlfriend is real, that they had a long relationship, and that she wants to be left alone, as everyone can probably imagine.
Welcome to Ws Spicer2000 and thanks for your valuable input!
Thank you for that. I think we can only begin to imagine her shock and pain, and that of everyone close to him. Thanks for being here.
This is brave of you. I hope she's alright and you too. Thank you. I can speak for myself that my interest is not to pry, certainly not to judge, so am grateful that you've spoken up. Anything that you think should be known that can help is a kindness on your part. Great to see. Gives me hope. Hopefully does the same for you too. The more people act well and with good will the more they can claim back from him the shreds of decency he has so damaged around him. Thank you, again.
klily444
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Thank you for coming onboard! Do you have any opinions on LJ that you're comfortable sharing?
Spicer2000
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Thanks for the welcome.
All I really can say is that those who know him well (so, not his "friend" who called him a prowler, etc.) are shocked. I left Charlottesville years ago and haven't been back much lately, but the LJ that I knew way back when was really nice and was, seriously, everyone's friend -- including girls/women. I've been reading a lot lately where the general public thinks that it was all a scam, but, I honestly do not believe he was anything other than sincere in that kindness. I'm not saying he's not guilty (I'm one of those crazy people who refuse to come to any personal verdict until it goes to trial and I see all the evidence), but I definitely never would have seen this one coming, so I'll be really interested to see what happens over the next few weeks/months.
All I really can say is that those who know him well (so, not his "friend" who called him a prowler, etc.) are shocked. I left Charlottesville years ago and haven't been back much lately, but the LJ that I knew way back when was really nice and was, seriously, everyone's friend -- including girls/women. I've been reading a lot lately where the general public thinks that it was all a scam, but, I honestly do not believe he was anything other than sincere in that kindness. I'm not saying he's not guilty (I'm one of those crazy people who refuse to come to any personal verdict until it goes to trial and I see all the evidence), but I definitely never would have seen this one coming, so I'll be really interested to see what happens over the next few weeks/months.
Heroine
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Welcome and thanks for clearing that up!
Please know that I am sure I speak for all of WS when we say we feel great sympathy towards her, and can't imagine the pain she is going through right now.
You may consider registering yourself as a verified insider on this case.
You may consider registering yourself as a verified insider on this case.
I'm not sure where this belongs--mods, please feel free to move it. Here is an interesting take on how information would have been transferred between the universities when JM moved:
http://blog.ecu.edu/sites/dailyclip...-sexual-assault-is-murky-the-washington-post/
http://blog.ecu.edu/sites/dailyclip...-sexual-assault-is-murky-the-washington-post/
Yep. It's the kind of thing, like a gut kick of disbelief. I think I may have some idea but not exactly how it feels. Betrayals that somehow impact on the life or death of others, well, let's say it takes a while. Like a game you go back and play in your head over and over again. What did I miss? Why didn't it see it coming? But how could you, as you describe it. What could I have done? How could I have known...? It becomes this depressing circular way of thinking that's depleting. I hope you and those who really know him get past that. The ones who were close to him will each deal with that in your own ways. But it takes time. And you're wise to react as you have. It would be so wonderful and restorative to help find this poor missing girl and give her parents some hope of having her back, whatever that may mean. I know it's hard, but dealing with this will take time for you all. I hope you and those who know each other from those times and places best, can put your heads and hearts together enough to help find Hannah Graham. We have hope and can beat bushes, but you guys are those who can make the biggest contribution to something good. Thank you, and sorry if I come on too strong. This means something to all us in our own ways, but most of us are bystanders. You guys have the memories, the perceptions, the little telling thoughts that may help. I have no doubt you'll try your best. Thank you.
Spicer2000
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MJPeony
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Working on verification now
Thanks Spicer for coming to the forum. I echo the sympathy for you, JM's girlfriend, and all that knew him. I've previously posted how my heart hurts for anyone who finds themselves in that position. If it turns out JM is involved, it's a betrayal of huge proportions and life changing. Even throughout this "in between" stage it must be hard not having all the details. I hope that healing comes quickly.
Although I know that there are people in the past who've done horrific things and had fooled all who knew them (Bundy, etc), I'm still in shock at this situation with JM (should it turn out he is to blame). I don't think I'll ever be able to get my head around people having such different and opposite personas.
If JM is not guilty of what many now suspect he is, I'm trying to figure out where the finger would be pointed, given all the facts we've gotten from this HG case/MH case. I don't know if it's worthwhile to open up the "if not JM then who" questions here (and prob not the right thread anyway). To me (IMO, MOO, etc), there is no way to reconcile what we've learned thus far w/out assuming LE has a case of some sort with JM. He's been charged as a suspect.
In any case, appreciating your efforts Spicer and all in your similar shoes.
MJPeony
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A thought occurred to me- I wonder if JM had some psychological issues that warranted medication, and when he was NOT on medication we see the swing in personality. Would account perhaps for the dual sides that many are seeing now come to light (presumably).
I'm not encouraging armchair mental illness diagnoses on our parts- I personally find it destructive to come up with specific mental health labels based on what we pedestrians see as "symptoms"- I think that contributes to false generalization, incorrect symptoms, and stigmatization of many diagnoses. However, does anyone else think maybe there is somehow a medication reason/or lack thereof for the changes in personality/behaviors?
I'm not encouraging armchair mental illness diagnoses on our parts- I personally find it destructive to come up with specific mental health labels based on what we pedestrians see as "symptoms"- I think that contributes to false generalization, incorrect symptoms, and stigmatization of many diagnoses. However, does anyone else think maybe there is somehow a medication reason/or lack thereof for the changes in personality/behaviors?
MJPeony
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Ah yes- that is where it belongs. Thank you. I wasn't able to categorize those thoughts for some reason!
Thank you! We are all interested in finding the truth, and your point about withholding judgment until trial when we can see all the facts is an excellent one. May I ask your opinion on something? I know from sources already documented that JM was seen as a loyal friend, a Gentle Ben of sorts, someone who was liked. There were the "I Love LJ" tee-shirts, for example. We know he had learning problems (doesn't mean he wasn't intelligent)--perhaps he even overheard the "Lenny" characterizations and laughed along with everyone else, (although that had to hurt.). Do you think he felt all the accolades from others but also deep-down, he felt the pity? ("Oh, yeah-there's LJ--sweet, lovable, awkward LJ...") Maybe he felt the crowd idolatry, but still felt rejected on a one-on-one basis, making him feel alone in the crowd. He had many friends, but it seems maybe no real close confidantes. Do you think that he felt like, "Oh, everybody loves LJ, but nobody really wants to spend time with him.". Maybe he tried to latch onto people, only to see them walk away with "other" friends.
No one wants to be pitied. Everyone wants to be accepted on the same level as everyone else. Sometimes there is a self-fulfilling prophecy --people behave as they are labeled: "Well, they call me Lenny, so I guess I must be the friend that everybody holds at a distance." I can see this perceived pity as causing a lot of resentment, and building rage. It may have contributed to his mindset later. (By the way, I am NOT trying to excuse JM's behavior. If he's the perp, and it appears that way, there is no justification. And no one created this..no one except JM.)
Do you feel comfortable sharing any insights?
MJPeony, I agree- armchair diagnoses by lay people is a no-no, although we know enough about him to speculate a bit. His friend alluded to degrees of his behavior, sometimes more aggressive than others, and that he was more aggressive in the bar that night, IIRC. When he picked up both girls and injured the hamstring of the man, that almost appeared to me, IMO, to be manic, although this observation is without data to back it up and is out-of-context.
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