sorry for the faux pas...i mean mh... i lived in cville during time she went missing and lived very close to the farm where she was found.
it was and remains a very frightening time to be a woman living in cville with this going on
JLM: What Do We Know About Him?
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sorry for the faux pas...i mean mh... i lived in cville during time she went missing and lived very close to the farm where she was found.
it was and remains a very frightening time to be a woman living in cville with this going on
LE has a missing young woman. Time is of the essence. The POI (due to the fact he was the last one IDed to be with Hannah, AND for some reason his car was under suspicion) says he will ONLY talk with an attorney. He is not entitled to an court appointed attorney because he is not yet accused with anything and LE doesn't have enought to accuse him, but they really really want info from him because he is likely key as to where Hannah might be. I thiknk LE would put the safety and the best chance of a return of a missing person over whether or not it's their business to get him a lawyer. In some of these cases, the POI issues some statement through the lawyer, and may even submit to questioning with lawyer present.
This happened in the Lauren Spierer case. All POIs lawyered up. But they did meet with LE, and did answer some questions with lawyers present, submit to DNA testing, and the lawyers made their public statement. None of them were ever arrested either. It's JM's right to remain silent.
The difference here is that the JM doesn't have a family with deep pockets to pay for a lawyer, and since he's not accused of anything, he isn't entitled to a public defender. But many lawyers offer a free consult, and in high profile cases like this one, defense attorneys often will take the case pro bono. So your tax dollars did not pay for JM's consult. And he's likely getting his defense at Public defender prices that are tax subsidized, but that 's the way the system works.
It's easy to mix up names and circumstances when people are referred to by their initials. I was fairly certain who you meant.
And I agree, it has been a frightening time to be a woman living in Charlottesville (and up and down the 29 corridor) for many years.
Just wondering, would you know if LJ had any connections to NoVa especially around 2005?
Tink56
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Can't find if this has been discussed and/or clarified before. If so, I apologize in advance and would appreciate a hint where to look for the information.
When LE was serving the second search warrant for JM's apartment his roommates were moving out. (a man and a woman???? not sure...) They have never been discussed in the press as far as I can tell. Is this because they are deemed to have no information about JM's activities, etc. for the weekend of the 13th and 14th, or are they refusing to talk to LE?
It bothered me that they were taking things out of the apartment before LE arrived. Am I misremembering, confused, or does anyone else have some information about the roommates and their move?
When LE was serving the second search warrant for JM's apartment his roommates were moving out. (a man and a woman???? not sure...) They have never been discussed in the press as far as I can tell. Is this because they are deemed to have no information about JM's activities, etc. for the weekend of the 13th and 14th, or are they refusing to talk to LE?
It bothered me that they were taking things out of the apartment before LE arrived. Am I misremembering, confused, or does anyone else have some information about the roommates and their move?
reeditor
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No worries, an easy mix up.
before this latest spate of missing women was another killer on 29... for such a rural and lovely college town, there is a lot of fear
as for nova connections, only a lot of kids from cville (and their siblings) moved there after hs and college
MJPeony
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Yes, that could certainly be true.
But someone help me out here (directed at anyone): what exactly do we think hypothetical lawyer friend advised (soon after he was seen on video)? What lawyer would ever encourage him to skip town? I can see a lawyer saying, "Hey, you need to stay quiet and not admit anything. They have to be able to press charges, so until then, don't talk" or something like that. But what advice would the lawyer have given OTHER than that simple thing?
Also, if JM was getting advice from a lawyer, why'd he mosey on down to the police station to talk with a lawyer? To me, it seems like JM was just totally freaked out and confused in order to drive down to the station. Makes me think if he was talking to a lawyer before Camblos that this person was not too bright? He would have told JM to lay low and shut up until charges were pressed.
I don't know... JMO. In any case, can anyone tell me why it matters? (serious non-snarky question b/c I'm not connecting dots).
maybe the lawyer friend told him to scrub facebook and go to the police department and ask for a lawyer - being this lawyer was not a criminal defense attorney...
but maybe that person didn't tell him to leave town...
i'm just throwing out possibilities...
MJPeony
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BBM. Seconding that almost anyone who grows up in C-ville will have Northern Virginia connections.
For a number of reasons, I think that JM did Hannah harm. Given the basic facts, the chances are that is what happened. But let's presume for a moment he did not.
JM picks up Hannah, gets beers with shots in them before leaving Tempo, gulps his down as does HG, and she is not feeling well as a result. So off she goes with him, with the understanding she is getting a ride home, and JM is hoping to get something for it. But she gets sick, throws up, gets out of the car and makes a run for it. Details not important. Filll them in as you please. JM's not feeling so hit either since he didn't get lucky and has had too much himself. Starts to drive home, realizes that he's drunker than he thought, has already been in enough trouble with his car and DMV and decides to pull over on the way home rather than risk getting stopped and falls asleep. Wakes up the next morning, and goes home. Missed the football meeting, Feels terrible just stays in bed.
Forgets about the situation since he has a move coming on out of the apt complex. Doesn't pay attention to the news. Then one night there are cops at the door with a search warrent for his car. Maybe they ask a few questions, maybe his roommates fill him in, but before he knows it they are all over his car and he realizes that he is a black man in the south suspected of picking up a misssing white woman, a UVA student no less, and that he did indeed pick her up, maybe she threw up his car, but certainly was likely to leave DNA and he knows that he was seen at Tempo with her. Barely remembers where he left her, and realizes he is in some deep stuff. LE takes his phone, and also has a warrent to search the apartment, seizes the car. No one to sit there and talk to him about it, just taking care of business. So he and his roommates leave the area. He goes home and tells famly what has happened.
So they take him to the police station, and tell him he has to get a lawyer, not to talk without one. He's in panic mode by now. After all he has the two college sexual assaults and maybe he is responsible for MH and the 2005 rape, maybe not, but he 's had some trouble in this area and his family is scared, angry, upset. He talks to an attorney who tells him not to say anything, that he has not been charged with anything ,if and when he is, to call him. Otherwise lay low.
JM leaves station and notices he has a tail. Freaks him out. Pressure is too much He decides to ditch the cops, lose the tail. And that's just what LE has been waiting for. Up till then, they had no grounds to arrest them and they now do. So they make a big to-do over a reckless driving charge. The Daily Mail has already identified him, so he has gone national and viral.
So maybe, he did not do Hannah harm. Yes, it's possible. And unless LE has some danged solid evidence to show that a scenario as described could not have happened. Can prove their version beyond reasonable doubt. Have some good DNA stuff, they may well have an uphill climb in getting JM convicted.
Also, they might have quite the cache of evidence that they are waiting to spring on him in court, and he may well have harmed Hannah, be a serial rapist and killer.
The one thing I do say that LE did stupidly was the way they handled the car search and seizure. I've said it many times: they should have brought along someone v-e-r-y good to sit and talk with JM, commisserate and try to get some info out of him just as someone who was last with Hannah, make it clear that he is not being charged with anything, that everyone that came in contact with her was being questioned and could he help them out. Having the goon squad serve the warrent and jump on the car with tunnel vision, ignoring the guys since there is no paper on them, so that they don't even know when and how JM and roommates left is pretty danged sloppy to me. And I don't think they would have won over anyone in JM's situation even if that person was innocent they way the proceded with that venture. Of course he clammed up, wanted an attorney, and I'm sure his friends and family supported him alll the way at that point. Now with talk of other cases being linked, Im sure people are getting uncomfortable, scared, and not so supportive, maybe not even his own grandmom. But you can see how LE did not exactly play this right, and how with no other evidence than what we have, JM could have been innocent of harming Hannah.
As to why I think that is not the case...well, I don't have the evidence to back that up. just that he is acting guilty , has a history, and the stats are stacked against him. Also LE does seem to be pretty sure they got their guy and though the DA was hesitant, Longo is no fool, has the credentials and experience and seems to think they've got their man. And we don't know what LE has in their box. I suspect they have some goods on JM.
The move was scheduled a while ago. LE has said that roomates have cooperated with the police. What I find unusual and disconcerting is that without any additional info, it appears that LE showed upt at JM's apartment with a warrent to search his car. While searching, they go another warrent to search the apartment. They then seized the car. Not a good intro to the police. No info has been given as to whether JM was given the courtesy of an interview and to answer any questions. The search was done in the wee hours of the night/morning and I think if this was my intro to LE and the Hannah Graham disappearance, I'd not be so eager to talk to LE without an attorney. I think that could have been handled better.
And yes, due to that move, things might have been out of the apartment that could have been useful to LE.
Yes, that could certainly be true.
But someone help me out here (directed at anyone): what exactly do we think hypothetical lawyer friend advised (soon after he was seen on video)? What lawyer would ever encourage him to skip town? I can see a lawyer saying, "Hey, you need to stay quiet and not admit anything. They have to be able to press charges, so until then, don't talk" or something like that. But what advice would the lawyer have given OTHER than that simple thing?
Also, if JM was getting advice from a lawyer, why'd he mosey on down to the police station to talk with a lawyer? To me, it seems like JM was just totally freaked out and confused in order to drive down to the station. Makes me think if he was talking to a lawyer before Camblos that this person was not too bright? He would have told JM to lay low and shut up until charges were pressed.
I don't know... JMO. In any case, can anyone tell me why it matters? (serious non-snarky question b/c I'm not connecting dots).
I doubt JM was talking to any attorney before LE gave Camblos a ring. According to Longo, there was a list of defense attorneys and the cops just called the first name on the list and asked if he would talk to JM. I got the impression that LE did this even though they did not have to do so because they really wanted info out of JM and was hoping he'd given them something that would help find Hannah. That the attorney, told JM not to say a thing was unfortunate for them, but there was the chance. Had JM had a different story to tell the lawyer than whatever he had to say, it is possible that the attorney would have recommended he give some info or insisted on it. Like if he said she staggered out of the car at a given location. I think lawyers will tell if there is a strong chance of harm or death possible to an individual. But really, who knows what the attorney said and what JM said.
I don't think JM listens to anyone but follows his own impulses. Don't think for an instant that family, attorney or any one with any brains would have told him to make a run for it. It seems to me that LE really didn't have much on JM at that time and he gave them the opening to arrest him.
MJPeony
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Shortened for brevity and BBM.
Excellent post jamicat, thank you.
Love the part I bolded.... So true, so true.
katydid23
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Also, the lawyer might have just emphasized how serious the situation was. And perhaps it gave him enough of a fright to skip town.
Maybe, the roommates found something while moving out and notified LE. The arrest warrant for abduction was released shortly after that second search. I have a feeling something critical was found during that second search. They seemed to be on a mission and knew what they were going to collect.
IMO
IMO
Bryan9
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You aren't the only person who's criticized the CPD for this. Chief Longo spoke to this criticism today:
"We caught some criticism when Mr. Matthew walked out that door on that Saturday afternoon. People couldn't understand: 'How do you just let the guy walk out the door?'" Charlottesville Police Chief Timothy Longo said in an interview with the Associated Press. "We made a commitment to honor certain constitutional protections that people have in our criminal justice system, and as frustrating as it is, we want to be very careful to get it right, not to rush to judgment."
To add, per his wanted poster, he has known connections in PA, MD, and DC.
Too, you might check out the RAT thread regarding living near 29 as a woman over the last few decades.
Magdalyn
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The tax dollars I was referring to were the tax dollars that citizens pay towards local law enforcement, tax dollars being used to pay LE's salary to jump through hoops to arrange a lawyer for a person who is refusing to speak freely and answer some questions, and who could arrange a free consult with a pro bono lawyer themselves before they even came in to the tax payer funded police department.
I'm perfectly clear on how 'the system works'. I'm also clear how the system gets bungled and abused. We have lawyers in the family.
Magdalyn
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Oh I get why they let him walk out the door. He came in on his own, and he wasn't under arrest. I just don't understand the assist on arranging a lawyer. Hand the dude a phone and a phone book. If he came in with a friend or family, hand them the phone book.
I think he's just very familiar with how to manipulate/work the system to his own advantage. CPD got 'worked'.
2Hope4
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That's just it though, he wasn't appointed a lawyer, wasn't told which one to call! He was given a list of attorneys, and either he or one of the two others that were with him called a lawyer who then came to the station and spoke with them for an hour. The chief gave an interview and explained that.
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