JLM: When will charges come in the HG and MH cases?

[bessie]

I was asked to open a thread to discuss/speculate about the as of yet absent murder charges against JLM in the Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington cases.

Will they come? When? Why the hold up?

 

[cluciano63]

Thanks, I have been wondering what the delay in charging JM is, especially with regards to Morgan. For years it has appeared, at least to me, that all LE needed was someone to match DNA with. They must have had that back to check JM's against crime scene, probably in both cases, for some time now. What else can they expect to find in Morgan's case that will be enough, or what is holding them back? Also in Hannah's case, but especially Morgan's, after all of these years?

 

[Dr. Know?]

I was thinking toxicology tests for Hannah was the delay for one (6 wks plus condition of remains more delay) Slam him with two murders for starts & well... DNA links to other crimes as another thought.

jmo

 

[cluciano63]

But he was linked to the Fairfax victim by DNA years ago. I am wondering why no movement on her case, I guess.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thanks, I have been wondering what the delay in charging JM is, especially with regards to Morgan. For years it has appeared, at least to me, that all LE needed was someone to match DNA with. They must have had that back to check JM's against crime scene, probably in both cases, for some time now. What else can they expect to find in Morgan's case that will be enough, or what is holding them back? Also in Hannah's case, but especially Morgan's, after all of these years?

I actually think at this point they may only have circumstantial evidence in the MH case. The DNA they would have run would have come from the shirt they found, and even with a match that only shows contact. We don't know if the DNA is sweat, or semen, or blood... When they announced the connection they specifically said "forensic link" over DNA match which makes me wonder if its something else they found...i have a theory that perhaps when MH purse was found, they were able to recover "fibers" on it...and I think when JMs cab was seized those fibers matched ones found in his cab. Though both of these are strong, and prove her presence in that cab its not enough to prove he abducted or killed her...and I think that's why, as of yet, we have not seen charges.

 

[SassyFras]

Thanks, I have been wondering what the delay in charging JM is, especially with regards to Morgan. For years it has appeared, at least to me, that all LE needed was someone to match DNA with. They must have had that back to check JM's against crime scene, probably in both cases, for some time now. What else can they expect to find in Morgan's case that will be enough, or what is holding them back? Also in Hannah's case, but especially Morgan's, after all of these years?

I would think that because there isn't a statute of limitations on rape or murder in VA, they don't feel the need to start the clock ticking on the MH & HG cases. He's in jail, no bond and about to go to trial for the Fairfax case - in other words, he's going nowhere right now.

When they do charge him with either or, it becomes an issue of his right to a speedy trial etc. The added factor is the outcome of the Fairfax case. If he is convicted on that case, I believe they would push to make either MH or HG trial a DP trial due to prior conviction. I hope LE's thought is, "why rush it and miss something?" At least I hope it's that and not due to lack of evidence. All JMO.

 

[4 Free Speech]

http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/dna-timeline.shtml

I don't know where to put this link, but it's a good point of reference for a Forensic timeline evaluation.

 

[Ghostwheel]

My theory on this is that they would like (or may need) a conviction on the rape case because the DNA link to Morgan Harrington won't be of any use if they don't have that conviction. Put it this way, if JLM's DNA was associated with the Fairfax victim, and he was exonerated of the charges somehow, trying to use that same DNA evidence in a murder trial would be tough. They might have to go at it a different way. That's just a guess on my part. I also don't think they are in any hurry to charge JLM. He isn't going anywhere.

Another reason could be this:
"In some situations, if a defendant loses at trial or takes a plea offer, a judge may use a defendant's prior conviction to enhance his or her sentence."
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/criminal-law/prior-convictions-used-against-me.htm

This could be a way to get a longer sentence in the murder cases if they need to.

 

[oldwindow]

My best guess is next year around jan-may 2015.. he is going to be in and out of court a lot. I think they're building a strong case, I think his back log of murders is deeper than we expect and each one needs to have him there in way to say he did them.. I do think he will break on MH case or maybe other case he did. He is looking at the death penalty for sure, I don't know what kind of guy he is , But I do know what kind of guy his lawyer is.

I'm being kind with next year timing, maybe 2016 if they combine these new suspected murders/rapes cases and the way his lawyer work.

 

[cluciano63]

In a crime show I watched earlier today, an old Dateline I think, LE obtained a LWOP on a case, so they did not prosecute another murder case linked by DNA. Maybe to save money, not sure. They figured they had him locked up anyway? Hate to think that but may be true.

While I don't like that being a scenario here, I also do not feel comfortable with three trials, for example, simply because two of them were "high profile" either. It doesn't feel right, Imo, unless every victim of every murder gets a trial for their own justice. But I also know it likely does not work that way. Jmo

 

[FindHG]

Underwater Search Dogs: How crime canines were used in the Hannah Graham case
Garo Search Video
By ABC 7 News November 4, 2014 - 11:16 am http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/11/underwater-search-dogs-how-crime-canines-were-used-in-the-hannah-graham-case-108730.html

 

[observation]

There could be any number of reasons we have not heard additional charges against JLM as of yet in the MH and HG cases. I suspect a careful consideration and review of evidence takes much longer than any of us WS 'ers can imagine. Looking at DNA, found evidence, going over witness testimony/ interviews, etc. all takes time and a very deliberate choice about what charges will stick and what they believe they can best support w/ evidence. I also believe that the timing of when those charges will be handed down has a lot to do with coordination surrounding his Fairfax case.
One thing that I do feel confident about is that there will be more charges and the time it takes to hear those charges is NOT due to lack of evidence. Last statement is my own gut instinct.

 

[wary]

I think that it might not be so much 'lack of evidence' as, 'lack of certainty that they have all the evidence that they can get.'

There are several factors here. One is, that JM is safely locked up for the forseeable future. Another is, that they have charged him with the Fairfax rape, and probably feel confident that they have every bit of evidence. They have the victim's testimony; they have DNA evidence; they have eyewitnesses to her state immediately after the attack; they have medical records. The third factor is Virginia's rule that they must bring a case to trial in five months. When they have JM locked up, and going to trial on one charge, what possible incentive would they have to rush to charge him on other charges, and start the clock ticking against themselves?

 

[jbowman55]

I've been thinking about the Greta van Susteren show that had the two ex-LE guys doing some brainstorming at the crime scene behind the cottage at 3193. Also the statement from Coy Barefoot's tipster who called in the report of buzzards on Oct 6. In each of those narratives, reference or inference was made to thick woods behind the cottage, as in, between the cottage and the location of Hannah's remains.

Can you imagine trying to carry a lifeless body, over your shoulder, through the trees in an area like that without leaving some evidence behind that you were there? Seems like he would have gotten caught by every little stray tree limb, every briar and bramble. He'd have had twigs in his hair, would have left pulled hairs and fibers on tiny twigs and branches that were still on the trees, both his hair and Hannah's, most likely. I swear I believe that evidence would have been left behind, and probably plenty of it.

Of course, he did have some number of days to check behind himself and remove evidence of having been there, I guess, but I find it difficult to believe that he could have been as thorough as he would have needed to be. Plus, every time he went there in daylight, if in fact he did, he took a chance of being seen.

I imagine that LE is just biding their time and building a stronger case. I believe they already have evidence that ties him to the crime, via the crime scene. Imo.

ETA: I just had a sickening thought. The pants. omg. The pants were there, near her body, because he took them off her there. He actually did rape her right there in the woods. Who chokes a woman unconscious, rapes her, and then takes the time to put pants back on her? Imo.

Where are Hannah's shoes?

 

[Charlie Chan]

I've been thinking about the Greta van Susteren show that had the two ex-LE guys doing some brainstorming at the crime scene behind the cottage at 3193. Also the statement from Coy Barefoot's tipster who called in the report of buzzards on Oct 6. In each of those narratives, reference or inference was made to thick woods behind the cottage, as in, between the cottage and the location of Hannah's remains.

Can you imagine trying to carry a lifeless body, over your shoulder, through the trees in an area like that without leaving some evidence behind that you were there? Seems like he would have gotten caught by every little stray tree limb, every briar and bramble. He'd have had twigs in his hair, would have left pulled hairs and fibers on tiny twigs and branches that were still on the trees, both his hair and Hannah's, most likely. I swear I believe that evidence would have been left behind, and probably plenty of it.

Of course, he did have some number of days to check behind himself and remove evidence of having been there, I guess, but I find it difficult to believe that he could have been as thorough as he would have needed to be. Plus, every time he went there in daylight, if in fact he did, he took a chance of being seen.

I imagine that LE is just biding their time and building a stronger case. I believe they already have evidence that ties him to the crime, via the crime scene. Imo.

ETA: I just had a sickening thought. The pants. omg. The pants were there, near her body, because he took them off her there. He actually did rape her right there in the woods. Who chokes a woman unconscious, rapes her, and then takes the time to put pants back on her? Imo.

Where are Hannah's shoes?

I have had that thought for a while (about the pants). I think she was either so out of it in the car that she posed no issue in terms of escape OR he punched her out. Then, he arrived at the location, forced her to walk with him to the place where her body was found, and then raped and murdered her. The pants are the clue.....unless he carried them to site where he left HG's body and left them there for some reason. I just realized that this is OT for this thread...but I do think that the pants being there alongside of the remains provides one logical conclusion: HG was raped and murdered in that spot. JMO. And if that is the case, there was hopfully evidence remaining there from JM himself. The weeks between the murder and the remains being found were often rainy and leaves were falling.

 

[jbowman55]

I have had that thought for a while (about the pants). I think she was either so out of it in the car that she posed no issue in terms of escape OR he punched her out. Then, he arrived at the location, forced her to walk with him to the place where her body was found, and then raped and murdered her. The pants are the clue.....unless he carried them to site where he left HG's body and left them there for some reason. I just realized that this is OT for this thread...but I do think that the pants being there alongside of the remains provides one logical conclusion: HG was raped and murdered in that spot. JMO. And if that is the case, there was hopfully evidence remaining there from JM himself. The weeks between the murder and the remains being found were often rainy and leaves were falling.

Do you think it's O/T? I think the evidence they possibly have has every bearing on when charges will be filed. That's why I didn't think it was O/T. If it is, mods, I apologize.

 

[Charlie Chan]

Do you think it's O/T? I think the evidence they possibly have has every bearing on when charges will be filed. That's why I didn't think it was O/T. If it is, mods, I apologize.

Oh, when you put it that way, it isn't OT! As I was typing my reply to your post, I was wondering if I should have been typing that on another thread but you are correct.....how much evidence that the may have been able to recover there will certainly play a role in the timing of the charges!

 

[JoM7]

It does seem they would have plenty of physical evidence from the crime scene. My belief is that she and the other girls who were sadly JLM's victims were running from him. Perhaps she ran up to that cottage hoping someone was home. I can't picture him dragging these women through thick brush.

Where are her shoes, her top, her phone, her undergarments? I guess he had a week to get rid of it.

 

[Enni]

I think that it might not be so much 'lack of evidence' as, 'lack of certainty that they have all the evidence that they can get.'

There are several factors here. One is, that JM is safely locked up for the forseeable future. Another is, that they have charged him with the Fairfax rape, and probably feel confident that they have every bit of evidence. They have the victim's testimony; they have DNA evidence; they have eyewitnesses to her state immediately after the attack; they have medical records. The third factor is Virginia's rule that they must bring a case to trial in five months. When they have JM locked up, and going to trial on one charge, what possible incentive would they have to rush to charge him on other charges, and start the clock ticking against themselves?

Great points. Things that come out in the Fairfax case may lead to more evidence / discoveries / witnesses. Also, strategically, prosecution may want to get a sense of defense's approach before filing add'l charges.

I didn't realize there was a rule that cases must be brought to trial within 5 months in VA; thanks for explaining.

 

[4 Free Speech]

http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/dna-timeline.shtml

DNA Extractions

Once the stains have been located, forensic DNA analysts focus attention on isolating the DNA from these stains. There are several types of extraction procedures used in forensic laboratories today, some of which are organic, organic differential, and QIAamp® DNA Micro extractions. For sexual assault cases, such as those including a rape kit with swabs, forensic DNA analysts are interested in isolating both male (sperm) and female (non-sperm) fractions, which is more time consuming to do than an organic extraction of a bloodstain, for example. The QIAamp® DNA Micro extraction is often performed on reference samples from victims and suspects. Reference samples are always processed separately from questioned casework samples to prevent any type of contamination. Reference samples generally contain high amounts of DNA relative to questioned casework samples. By processing them separate from one another, the chance of crossover contamination is eliminated. The amount of DNA recovered from all samples in the extraction procedure is documented in the forensic analyst’s notes, as well as the amount of extract consumed for analysis. In this way, the analyst knows how much sample remains for possible re-analysis by another laboratory.

Organic extraction: 4 hours 30 minutes
Organic differential extraction: 8 hours 30 minutes
QIAamp® DNA Micro extraction: 2 hours 30 minutes

Total Time Spent On Case At This Point: 22 hours

DNA Quantitation

The next step is to determine how much human DNA is present in the extracted samples. It is important to know this amount so appropriate dilutions can be made if there is a lot of DNA in the sample or the extract can be concentrated if there is very little DNA in the sample. The 310 Genetic Analyzer is one instrument used to actually perform the DNA typing analysis, and operates ideally when samples have a specific concentration, which is why DNA analysts are so concerned with knowing the amount of DNA present in the extracted samples. DNA quantitation is performed using a technique known as real-time PCR in most laboratories. The analyst prepares the samples by adding chemicals and then the samples are actually run on the instrument for approximately two hours.

Preparation time: 1 hour 30 minutes
Samples running on instrument: 2 hours
Analysis of data by analyst: 45 minutes

Total Time Spent On Case At This Point: 26 hours 15 minutes

I don't know where to put this link, but it's a good point of reference for a Forensic timeline evaluation.