I agree the cigar tip was "taken" from his wallet and tested before LE took the buccal swab. I DO, however, wonder where LE located JLM's wallet so they could "take" the cigar tip? If during the car warrant, the wallet would have had to be in the car. If in either of the apartment warrants, the wallet could not have been on JLM's person as I don't believe those warrants allowed a search of his person. It makes the most sense that the cigar tip was "taken" from his wallet after his arrest in Texas, but that's somewhat controversial.
JLM: When will charges come in the HG and MH cases?
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I agree the cigar tip was "taken" from his wallet and tested before LE took the buccal swab. I DO, however, wonder where LE located JLM's wallet so they could "take" the cigar tip? If during the car warrant, the wallet would have had to be in the car. If in either of the apartment warrants, the wallet could not have been on JLM's person as I don't believe those warrants allowed a search of his person. It makes the most sense that the cigar tip was "taken" from his wallet after his arrest in Texas, but that's somewhat controversial.
Film_At11
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I think the cigar butt was taken into evidence in Texas , not in the original car/apartment search.
http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news...nt-reveals-harrington-case-dna-link/19521703/
The search warrant says DNA was found on Harrington's shirt and a cigar butt taken from Jesse Matthew Jr.'s wallet after he was arrested in the disappearance of U.Va. student Hannah Graham. Graham's remains were found last month.
Thanks for finding the dates (saves me from having to look
) The warrant in question was dated 10/16 and I would guess that the analysis of his known buccal swab was done at the same time that the one from the Fairfax case was done, which would put it after 10/21 when that buccal swab was submitted (according to the official DNA report in the Fairfax case).
Conductor71
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Hoping Ralph might know this...
We all have questions on the cigar tip. I am satisfied with my belief that it was used to check against State DNA bank, but I question why it was used to check against MH's shirt? Why wouldn't they wait until the official single source DNA sample be used?
I posted these questions but still don't know: Cigar tip already matches Fairfax perp via database, is it necessary for cigar tip to also match MH's shirt as common piece of evidence and to establish contact? I am thinking not only that, but it would be vital for the foreign DNA from both JM and Fairfax perp be located in same areas and in same concentrations on the shirt. This sounds like an obtuse thing to say, but I think there is a lot of random DNA interference from other people on the shirt.
Am I way off base on any of this? Thanks!
We all have questions on the cigar tip. I am satisfied with my belief that it was used to check against State DNA bank, but I question why it was used to check against MH's shirt? Why wouldn't they wait until the official single source DNA sample be used?
I posted these questions but still don't know: Cigar tip already matches Fairfax perp via database, is it necessary for cigar tip to also match MH's shirt as common piece of evidence and to establish contact? I am thinking not only that, but it would be vital for the foreign DNA from both JM and Fairfax perp be located in same areas and in same concentrations on the shirt. This sounds like an obtuse thing to say, but I think there is a lot of random DNA interference from other people on the shirt.
Am I way off base on any of this? Thanks!
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Thanks...I didn't realize Anchorage Farms is closer to Charlottesville than the Old Lynchburg site.
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Suspect’s arrest in U-Va. case provides lead in 2009 death of Virginia Tech student
**snipped for relevance to comment
"Virginia State Police investigators said Monday that the arrest of Jesse L. “LJ” Matthew Jr., who allegedly abducted missing U-Va. student Hannah Graham this month, has provided “a significant break” in the case of a young woman who similarly disappeared in Charlottesville five years ago and was later found dead.
Police said Matthew’s arrest last week has given state police investigators “a new forensic link” to pursue in the abduction and slaying of Virginia Tech student Morgan Harrington, 20, who went missing in Charlottesville on Oct. 17, 2009. Harrington’s body was found in a field 10 miles south of town 101 days after she disappeared outside a Metallica concert at a U-Va. arena.
Police and other law enforcement officials would not disclose what evidence they have collected, how it is related to Matthew, or how it might be linked to Harrington’s case.
Virginia State Police notified Gil Harrington, Morgan’s mother, about a connection between the cases, but she said police did not elaborate on what evidence links them."
www.washingtonpost.com/local/educat...eedd86-47f5-11e4-891d-713f052086a0_story.html
September 29, 2014
So, it sounds like that cigar butt is extremely significant, and was found in TX. My opinion...it's MH's DNA they spoke of on the warrant. I think this article solidifies the theory. Any other thoughts?
**snipped for relevance to comment
"Virginia State Police investigators said Monday that the arrest of Jesse L. “LJ” Matthew Jr., who allegedly abducted missing U-Va. student Hannah Graham this month, has provided “a significant break” in the case of a young woman who similarly disappeared in Charlottesville five years ago and was later found dead.
Police said Matthew’s arrest last week has given state police investigators “a new forensic link” to pursue in the abduction and slaying of Virginia Tech student Morgan Harrington, 20, who went missing in Charlottesville on Oct. 17, 2009. Harrington’s body was found in a field 10 miles south of town 101 days after she disappeared outside a Metallica concert at a U-Va. arena.
Police and other law enforcement officials would not disclose what evidence they have collected, how it is related to Matthew, or how it might be linked to Harrington’s case.
Virginia State Police notified Gil Harrington, Morgan’s mother, about a connection between the cases, but she said police did not elaborate on what evidence links them."
www.washingtonpost.com/local/educat...eedd86-47f5-11e4-891d-713f052086a0_story.html
September 29, 2014
So, it sounds like that cigar butt is extremely significant, and was found in TX. My opinion...it's MH's DNA they spoke of on the warrant. I think this article solidifies the theory. Any other thoughts?
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As for why LE would have been interested in the wood tipped blunt, maybe they knew MH had smoked one the night of her disappearance, because I think that tip meant something outside the realm of JM's DNA sample when they found it:
'He's still here.' And other revelations in the Harrington case
Feb 8th, 2011
"Cappuzzo again confirmed that Morgan had consumed alcohol that night, but he declines to describe the amount or type of drinks imbibed. He also declines comment on any other substances she may have consumed "out of respect for her family." He adds there is no indication that Morgan was unwittingly drugged or incapacitated by someone with nefarious intent."
www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case
'He's still here.' And other revelations in the Harrington case
Feb 8th, 2011
"Cappuzzo again confirmed that Morgan had consumed alcohol that night, but he declines to describe the amount or type of drinks imbibed. He also declines comment on any other substances she may have consumed "out of respect for her family." He adds there is no indication that Morgan was unwittingly drugged or incapacitated by someone with nefarious intent."
www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case
We already know, from the unsealed warrant, that they found JLM's DNA in a stain on MH's shirt. They got JLM's DNA (saliva - rich in DNA) from the cigar butt (seemingly found in Texas) and that was the forensic link.
Ok, just trying to think about possibilities, so bear with me. In reference to the wooden cigar tip, is it possible that JLM changed wallets somewhere along the way and didn't fully clean out the old wallet when he started using a new one? So the old wallet is lying around (his house or car--doubt he was very organized at any point in his adult life), but then--for years--the wallet with some items inside of it was sitting in a junk drawer or whatever and cops collected it with other evidence.
I thought of this because when I switch out my purse (the every day one, not the special occasion ones) to a new one, sometimes I don't fully "deal with" some items in the purse, so I put the purse aside thinking that at some point, I'll decide what to do with items left in it, but for whatever reason, I just can't deal with it at the moment. I've found purses I've "discarded" years later and found it strange to see the items I left in there--receipts, lipstick, notes, etc. Perhaps this is the case with JLM's wallet and the wooden cigar tip.
I thought of this because when I switch out my purse (the every day one, not the special occasion ones) to a new one, sometimes I don't fully "deal with" some items in the purse, so I put the purse aside thinking that at some point, I'll decide what to do with items left in it, but for whatever reason, I just can't deal with it at the moment. I've found purses I've "discarded" years later and found it strange to see the items I left in there--receipts, lipstick, notes, etc. Perhaps this is the case with JLM's wallet and the wooden cigar tip.
Conductor71
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My take on it is this. It is worded very carefully for a reason, I think. We can only infer that some of JM's DNA is found in the stain on MH's shirt. He is a contributor, as I think there are likely more than two DNA profiles on that shirt. This really weakens this as a DNA source from what I have read.
LE found the Fairfax perp's DNA from victim's fingernail scraper (FS), as contributor, to MH's shirt. 2009 or 2010 (diffuse stain on front)
The DNA profile from the cigar tip matched, as contributor, to MH's shirt. Oct 16 2014 (inside of the shirt)
Buccal swab JM taken and matches that of Fairfax FS Oct 24 2014
JM is a contributor to the DNA profiles, this does not say it is 100% him. They don't seem to make a direct connection with the official swab to the shirt or between the cigar tip to the fingernail scraper. Instead we have indirect links: FS = MH (outside of shirt)
CT = MH (inside of shirt)
BS = FS
I would feel better if the cigar tip sample also matched the outside of the shirt and/or the buccal swab given there is likely a lot of foreign DNA on that shirt. I find it really weird that they are using two different DNA collection sources and testing two different parts of the shirt. To me, the FS, CT, or BS; one should be chosen as sole sample source and then matched on same areas of the shirt. There must be a forensics reason for this, but it makes my head hurt.
Conductor71
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Do you think JM saved this and carried it around with him all the time as a souvenir so to speak? I agree there is something more to this cigar tip, but what? Could it possibly link to HG too?
Conductor71
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FWIW
Ran across this article just now...first I have seen this regarding MH's shirt:
The warrant also reveals that the shirt was blood stained, and that a mixed profile of Harrington’s DNA and that of the unknown assailant taken from the shirt was run through the state DNA databank soon after its discovery. That resulted in a match with DNA taken from under the fingernails of the victim in the 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax.
source: http://www.c-ville.com/leaked-search-warrant-reveals-dna-link-harrington-case/
Ran across this article just now...first I have seen this regarding MH's shirt:
The warrant also reveals that the shirt was blood stained, and that a mixed profile of Harrington’s DNA and that of the unknown assailant taken from the shirt was run through the state DNA databank soon after its discovery. That resulted in a match with DNA taken from under the fingernails of the victim in the 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax.
source: http://www.c-ville.com/leaked-search-warrant-reveals-dna-link-harrington-case/
Film_At11
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snipped~
"Virginia State Police notified Gil Harrington, Morgan’s mother, about a connection between the cases, but she said police did not elaborate on what evidence links them."
I find it interesting that VSP does not even tell the victims mother what this link is !!
I continue to think that the DNA on the cigar butt tip belongs to MH .
I have no documentation , and this is only my opinion , but I think it somehow links back to MH's purse contents . Maybe a similar brand of cigars was found there? Maybe MH's friends mentioned her smoking a cigar/blunt on the way to the concert?
BUT "Something" about this cigar butt made LE say "HMMMM"
I just wish they had found some rohypnol too......
4 Free Speech
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Can we go back to this article for a sec, it's bothering me.
I wonder if the UVA Mens Basketball Team would be willing to put their DNA out there, especially if they are innocent. Is this why there was mixed DNA? What are your thoughts about the article below?
http://www.readthehook.com/69512/mis...rgan-sightings
< With the blonde were four young, white men–- a conspicuous group, says the witness, because of the direction they were headed: away from the Arena.
In addition to a black miniskirt, tights, and a black shirt, the young blonde was wearing distinctive high-heeled boots, says the witness, a mother of two who spoke on condition of anonymity over concern for getting "pulled into the fray."
Until now, the missing woman's boots have been described as "knee high," but this witness insists they were "over the knee." (Through a spokesperson with the Harrington's recently hired PR firm, Gil Harrington says the boots she saw Morgan try on prior to the concert were not above the knee.)
The men, says the witness, were allegedly laughing.
According to several sources, members of UVA's men's basketball team were among the last to see Harrington in the grassy, tree-shrouded parking area before she was seen with her thumb out, hitching a ride on the bridge.
Emails sent to numerous team members were forwarded to UVA spokesperson Carol Wood, who directed the inquiry to State Police, but Geller declines comment on the identity of any witnesses.
"We leave it to them whether they want to speak publicly," she says.>
......Now why would they "leave it to the boy's" if they want to speak publicly if there were amongst the last people to see MH?
There were two eyewitnesses that saw Morgan with members of UVA basketball team and the boys were laughing, later an eyewitness has her leaving the lawn at UVA around 3am without her tights. Bare legs, disshelved, alone. I think she was gang raped.
JLM saw the easy prey and picked her up, left the body on AF as a FU to the rich white folks, apparently he has also fished on this property so he knew it. It's also so close to Red Hill Elementary where he attended school.
..the Pantera tshirt was displayed next to Phi Kappa Psi as a trophy and another FU message.
JMO - whew I feel so much better.
I wonder if the UVA Mens Basketball Team would be willing to put their DNA out there, especially if they are innocent. Is this why there was mixed DNA? What are your thoughts about the article below?
http://www.readthehook.com/69512/mis...rgan-sightings
< With the blonde were four young, white men–- a conspicuous group, says the witness, because of the direction they were headed: away from the Arena.
In addition to a black miniskirt, tights, and a black shirt, the young blonde was wearing distinctive high-heeled boots, says the witness, a mother of two who spoke on condition of anonymity over concern for getting "pulled into the fray."
Until now, the missing woman's boots have been described as "knee high," but this witness insists they were "over the knee." (Through a spokesperson with the Harrington's recently hired PR firm, Gil Harrington says the boots she saw Morgan try on prior to the concert were not above the knee.)
The men, says the witness, were allegedly laughing.
According to several sources, members of UVA's men's basketball team were among the last to see Harrington in the grassy, tree-shrouded parking area before she was seen with her thumb out, hitching a ride on the bridge.
Emails sent to numerous team members were forwarded to UVA spokesperson Carol Wood, who directed the inquiry to State Police, but Geller declines comment on the identity of any witnesses.
"We leave it to them whether they want to speak publicly," she says.>
......Now why would they "leave it to the boy's" if they want to speak publicly if there were amongst the last people to see MH?
There were two eyewitnesses that saw Morgan with members of UVA basketball team and the boys were laughing, later an eyewitness has her leaving the lawn at UVA around 3am without her tights. Bare legs, disshelved, alone. I think she was gang raped.
JLM saw the easy prey and picked her up, left the body on AF as a FU to the rich white folks, apparently he has also fished on this property so he knew it. It's also so close to Red Hill Elementary where he attended school.
..the Pantera tshirt was displayed next to Phi Kappa Psi as a trophy and another FU message.
JMO - whew I feel so much better.
4 Free Speech
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http://touch.dailypress.com/#section.../p2p-82094169/
<The University of Virginia's Board of Visitors on Tuesday unanimously approved a zero-tolerance stance on sexual assault in the wake of gang rape allegations at one of the school's oldest fraternities.
The move came in an emergency meeting six days after the allegations appeared in a Rolling Stone story depicting a September 2012 attack at Phi Kappa Psi. Charlottesville police are investigating.>
Also - doesn't this announcement imply there has been "some tolerance of rape at UVA" in the past?
<The University of Virginia's Board of Visitors on Tuesday unanimously approved a zero-tolerance stance on sexual assault in the wake of gang rape allegations at one of the school's oldest fraternities.
The move came in an emergency meeting six days after the allegations appeared in a Rolling Stone story depicting a September 2012 attack at Phi Kappa Psi. Charlottesville police are investigating.>
Also - doesn't this announcement imply there has been "some tolerance of rape at UVA" in the past?
4 Free Speech
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I also think it's a Trophy. Have they ever found the necklace Morgan was wearing that night?
http://mindhuntersinc.com/why-killers-take-trophies/
Here’s what to look for in an investigation: Is there anything missing that belongs to the victim? Often police will mistakenly look for valuable missing items. But I’m not talking about a stereo component — that’s an impersonal item. I’m talking about something more personal — a ring, earrings, even costume jewelry — something the victim was wearing at the time of the crime.
Maybe they’ll keep the victim’s driver’s license. Some will leave it intact. Others will get rid of everything but the picture, so they just have a little wallet photo of the victim, as if they had some kind of relationship going.
In the more sadistic cases, some killers will take locks of the victim’s hair, or even go so far as to cut off the head or other body parts.
Reliving the crime
Between crimes — often while targeting future victims — they’ll pull out their trophies and just sit back in their La-Z Boy chairs and relive the crime over and over in their minds.
What’s interesting is that they often give the souvenir — particularly jewelry — to a family member or significant other. The recipient could be the wife or a girlfriend who was causing the subject grief at the time of the crime or was involved in a confrontation with him.
Well, the subject goes out and commits the crime, and like the cat who catches the mouse, brings it back and drops it on the doorstep. He’ll present his wife or mother with a piece of jewelry and say, “Look, I found this on the street. I want to give it to you.” When he sees this person who is a part of his life wearing the item, it becomes part of a game. He looks at it and fantasizes about the victim he raped or murdered, and it’s like his own little secret: “If only she knew … what she’s wearing right now came from one of my victims.” >
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4 Free Speech
Excellent news article, Courtney Stuart has been stellar in her reporting.
I too, believe that Morgan was gang-raped ( or in UVa speak "Had a Bad Experience") and then was ultimately killed by JM.
This woman's sighting should have been investigated until the wheels fell off !! The notion that we should "Let the boys decide if they want speak publicly " is absurd.
There has been WAY TOO MUCH "Declined to comment" all through this investigation.
http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/1849-located-deceased-morgan-dana-harrington-va-10172009/page-5
Police have never recovered a necklace Harrington was wearing, Cappuzzo said.
In November 2009, a resident found a shirt on 15th Street Northwest. Mitochondrial DNA testing would later show that it had been Harrington’s, Cappuzzo said. Then, in January 2010, the farmer found her remains. There was a flurry of attention for the case, then things quieted down until July, when police announced that forensic evidence tied Harrington’s disappearance to a 2005 abduction and sexual assault by an unknown man in Fairfax. The evidence linking the two was DNA, but police won’t say where they got the DNA that tied the cases together. Police had a sketch of the perpetrator in the Fairfax case.
Excellent news article, Courtney Stuart has been stellar in her reporting.
I too, believe that Morgan was gang-raped ( or in UVa speak "Had a Bad Experience") and then was ultimately killed by JM.
This woman's sighting should have been investigated until the wheels fell off !! The notion that we should "Let the boys decide if they want speak publicly " is absurd.
There has been WAY TOO MUCH "Declined to comment" all through this investigation.
http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/1849-located-deceased-morgan-dana-harrington-va-10172009/page-5
Police have never recovered a necklace Harrington was wearing, Cappuzzo said.
In November 2009, a resident found a shirt on 15th Street Northwest. Mitochondrial DNA testing would later show that it had been Harrington’s, Cappuzzo said. Then, in January 2010, the farmer found her remains. There was a flurry of attention for the case, then things quieted down until July, when police announced that forensic evidence tied Harrington’s disappearance to a 2005 abduction and sexual assault by an unknown man in Fairfax. The evidence linking the two was DNA, but police won’t say where they got the DNA that tied the cases together. Police had a sketch of the perpetrator in the Fairfax case.
...or...maybe JM rolled a blunt and offered it to Morgan...
If she was already intoxicated, it may be that a little extra something would have been enough to put her "out." Convenient for JM.
It's MH's DNA on the cigar butt tip, imo. Plain as the nose on my face. Now, I promise, I am not saying another word about this DNA thing until we have more information. :banghead:
Conductor71
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There is also another credible witness who claims to have seen Morgan around 10:00 am on Sunday morning at a Sheetz gas station in Orange. The police have never publicly discounted this sighting and what makes it even more interesting is this message by LE seemingly directed toward someone in particular:
While anyone who picked up Harrington after her last known sighting may be scared of the possible implications, those with information are urged to contact the investigators, Geller said.
"We'd hate to have anyone who just picked her up and dropped her at a gas station [to be reluctant to talk to us] because that person holds a very vital key to finding more information," Geller said. "Investigators are willing to work with that person because right now the focus is on finding Morgan and bringing her back to her family."
Sounds to me like they believe someone did give her a ride somewhere. Could that have been JM? Is this why they were looking for the cab he drove that night?
source: http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2010/01/search-for-harrington-continues
Evie Ivy Over
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Yes, that makes a lot of sense. JM was in the process of moving, even before HG went missing, so he may have run across that wallet in a drawer or wherever. I didn't really think he would carry the tip around with him for five years, I thought maybe he found the tip when he was moving and stuck it in his wallet. But what you're saying could very well be what happened.