Jodi Arias Legal Question and Answer Thread *no discussion*

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
AZ Lawyer, do you think this might be going on in this case? The whole borderline thing that Wilmott tried to push at the end?

I don't think the way JW presented it was effective, but yes, I think many jurors might balk at executing a person with an obvious mental illness. On the other hand, they might be concerned about that person getting parole in 25 years if they say "life."
 
Who knows? She might have had enough of JA in the courtroom. ;)



I don't think it's been challenged yet.



It sounds like you already did find it online. :) But AZ state court filings are not available online unless someone goes to the clerk, gets a copy, and posts it somewhere.



Yes.

BBM - How can I verify this is true? This supposed question by the juror or jurors? The person that claimed this provided no link. Thanks again
 
I don't think the way JW presented it was effective, but yes, I think many jurors might balk at executing a person with an obvious mental illness. On the other hand, they might be concerned about that person getting parole in 25 years if they say "life."

What is your experience in AZ with appointing a new jury if the existing jury cannot decide on death? I mean, isn't it possible that at least one or two of the current jurors have somehow "bonded" with JA and maybe a new jury that didn't sit in the court room with her for so long decided on a verdict more quickly?
 
Is the use of a second jury in the penalty phase consistent with Supreme Court rulings on the death penalty? Would a unanimous death sentence by a second jury need to be appealed to the Supreme Court, or is the use of a second jury in the penalty phase something that states are already allowed to do by the Constitution?

To add to my answer to this question, I don't see anything unconstitutional about it.

BBM - How can I verify this is true? This supposed question by the juror or jurors? The person that claimed this provided no link. Thanks again

Well, you could go to the clerk's office and see if it has been filed and take a look at it. Otherwise, I don't know how you could verify it.

What is your experience in AZ with appointing a new jury if the existing jury cannot decide on death? I mean, isn't it possible that at least one or two of the current jurors have somehow "bonded" with JA and maybe a new jury that didn't sit in the court room with her for so long decided on a verdict more quickly?

I have no experience with it and haven't heard of it happening so far. But perhaps it happens and the cases are being settled before the second jury is picked?

IMO a new jury would be vastly more likely NOT to vote for death, as they are not personally committed to the verdicts of guilt and cruelty and will not have had the experience of watching and hearing from JA for 5 months and realizing just how cold she is.
 
No, I don't think so, because it's true.



If they want to, they can.



No, alternates cannot be used to "fix" a hung jury.



IMO Judge Stephens could and should have told them about the second-jury procedure.

Based on the media reports about the note, it sounds like they weren't sure what form to use.



It's all up to the Sheriff's Office. There would be general visitors' hours, but the Sheriff can make exceptions if he wants to.



JM didn't really have any evidence to contradict JA's statement about Patty W. He only had his supposition that she backed out due to her criminal issues. JA's statement was hearsay, but hearsay is OK in the mitigation phase.

If something is sealed, JA would be bound by court order not to reveal it just like anyone else who was present, although I'm sure that wouldn't stop her if she wanted to reveal something.

I suppose she could have said she thought the judge was biased, yes.


I guess we know NOW why Nurmi didn't want this mistrial motion to be sealed like most of their behind closed door meetings. He wanted Arias to be able to speak of it! &U)$$&*Y(&*

So are you saying on the Patty matter, Juan was within his rights to argue only the points he made in open court, but not what was sealed about her?
It seems an unfair advantage to me.

You are kind to share your knowledge with us. Thanks, as always, AZlawyer.

PS. I'm shocked the defendant is allowed such latitude - pretty much say whatever she wants. WOW
 
To add to my answer to this question, I don't see anything unconstitutional about it.

Thanks. That's sort of what I was guessing, but there are enough issues to make me worry about this.

If this jury is hung, and the second jury is either hung or votes for death, doesn't that mean the defense will appeal both penalty phases giving them a double chance to have either one of them overturned which would take away the death penalty in the end? And if those two fail, another shot at a third appeal on the concept of double juries?

My attempted analogy for what might happen with the second jury is as follows: It's like finding 12 people who haven't seen the movie "Argo" and then showing them the movie trailer followed by the defense having the burden of proof to convince them "Argo" should not have been awarded the Oscar for Best Picture with the state in rebuttal bringing in witnesses to say it affected them with such an emotional impact that it had to win Best Picture. I'm being silly, but this is motivated by serious concern.

Does anything in principle bar the states from adding a third jury if the first two are hung? Or even seven juries in the courtroom at the same time to be decided best four out of seven? Again this is silly, but how is this not a slippery slope issue?
 
I guess we know NOW why Nurmi didn't want this mistrial motion to be sealed like most of their behind closed door meetings. He wanted Arias to be able to speak of it! &U)$$&*Y(&*

So are you saying on the Patty matter, Juan was within his rights to argue only the points he made in open court, but not what was sealed about her?
It seems an unfair advantage to me.

You are kind to share your knowledge with us. Thanks, as always, AZlawyer.

PS. I'm shocked the defendant is allowed such latitude - pretty much say whatever she wants. WOW

No, JM couldn't argue that Patty didn't show up for some other reason because he had no EVIDENCE of that--just his own theory based on her taking the 5th. So there was nothing for him to present.

Thanks. That's sort of what I was guessing, but there are enough issues to make me worry about this.

If this jury is hung, and the second jury is either hung or votes for death, doesn't that mean the defense will appeal both penalty phases giving them a double chance to have either one of them overturned which would take away the death penalty in the end? And if those two fail, another shot at a third appeal on the concept of double juries?

My attempted analogy for what might happen with the second jury is as follows: It's like finding 12 people who haven't seen the movie "Argo" and then showing them the movie trailer followed by the defense having the burden of proof to convince them "Argo" should not have been awarded the Oscar for Best Picture with the state in rebuttal bringing in witnesses to say it affected them with such an emotional impact that it had to win Best Picture. I'm being silly, but this is motivated by serious concern.

Does anything in principle bar the states from adding a third jury if the first two are hung? Or even seven juries in the courtroom at the same time to be decided best four out of seven? Again this is silly, but how is this not a slippery slope issue?

As far as your "Argo" analogy, you are pretty much right on the money. This is why I think a second jury would be much more likely to vote for life. They simply wouldn't have an in-depth understanding of the evidence or an emotional commitment to the verdicts rendered thus far.

As for the hung jury procedure, a defendant can't appeal a proceeding that ends with a hung jury, because the defendant hasn't been harmed by that proceeding.

I don't see any problem with infinite hung juries, because that's exactly how criminal trials always work--if there's a hung jury, the defendant can be retried again and again and again until one jury finally reaches a decision. So this procedure in AZ stops the process rather than continuing on with hung juries ad infinitum--and the process stops in the defendant's favor, with a life sentence, so I don't see the basis for a defendant to complain about that.

The "best four out of seven" simultaneous juries, on the other hand, is clearly unconstitutional.
 
I don't think the way JW presented it was effective, but yes, I think many jurors might balk at executing a person with an obvious mental illness. On the other hand, they might be concerned about that person getting parole in 25 years if they say "life."

what's the mental illness? isn't a personality disorder different from a mental illness? and couldn't you say this about pretty much anyone who commits a murder? that there has to be something wrong with them?
 
There is a lot of back & forth going on about the jury being deadlocked or not. Many people are insisting that there is no possible way the judge misunderstood the jury's note. Especially because she brought in the lawyers & families back to the courtroom. What do you think? Is it possible she simply misread the note? If there was a misunderstanding would the judge come out and say that publicly? Also, I am under the impression that she forgot to give the jury part of the instructions (this could be the cause of the jury question episode). Can this cause any future problems? I appreciate any info you can share, I'm trying to clear up some confusion.
 
Firstly , thank you to AZ, and any of the other attorneys that help us understand the trial process - very kind of you to share your knowledge and much appreciated.

My legal question is: If a new jury becomes necessary for the sentencing phase, what happens if the court is unable to find jurors who have not heard or seen any interviews with the convicted individual? Do they move it to another court, or does some action happen automatically (like LWOP)?
In one of the interviews, JA was asked her thoughts if a new jury was needed, to which she responded "good luck finding an untainted jury pool anywhere in the world" - a response I found oddly calm and disturbingly frightening (to be fair, I find much of what she says to be off-putting and frightening - particularly her demeanor). Is this statement something that could be an issue, and if so - why would she be permitted to conduct virtually limitless interviews if it could theoretically impede her chances to a fair trial?
Do First Amendment rights to free speech trump the defendant right to fair trial (sixth amendment maybe?)? Even if the defendant wants that to happen, wouldn't the court intercede to ensure trial can conclude justly?

Sorry for all the questions - really all one long question, and thank you in advance if you are able to answer!
 
Three Questions:

1. When a jury question is received by the Court, is the judge allowed to ask for clarification from the jury? Lots of confusion on if the judge misinterpreted the jury question.

2. If the judge cannot ask for clarification, is the response to their question based on the courts interpretation and agreed to by the attorneys? Seems to me that the judge may have given the hung jury instruction as a response since it was a possible interpretation of the question asked.

3. If someone leaked a jury question to the media, would their be consequences for the parties involved? Both the reporter and the party who released the info?
 
Let's say that Arias is sentenced to death. If the DP is abolished in Arizona prior to her execution, will it automatically be retroactive so as to spare JA? Or automatically non-retroactive? Or could it be either, depending on how the lawmakers want to do it?
 
No, the system assumes that the jurors are truthful when they say they are able to sentence the defendant to death if appropriate.

This is certainly not a case where you would have to assume a juror lied in voir dire if they are leaning toward life. Jodi is clearly mentally ill, and some people are not OK with executing crazy people.

Looking at the "cold feet" thing from a different angle... Suppose there are no more than three holding out for life, and they all say, "I don't believe any of the mitigation factors and I thought I could vote for DP but now I realize I just can't." In that case, aren't they refusing to follow the court's instructions by refusing to weigh mitigation vs aggravation or however the instruction read? Could the judge replace them with alternates based on that if she knew that was the situation? Wouldn't it be the same thing as if a juror now said, "I believe in the death penalty but not for women / people under 35 / people with some Hispanic heritage / whatever, so I'm voting for life no matter what."

An unrelated question... Do you have any idea whether how AZ does this is similar to other DP states? I would have thought it would be kind of like guilt phase - if they are not unanimous on death then it automatically becomes life. I've been curious about that. It's an interesting dynamic as it is - if someone fears possible release of someone they feel is a menace, they might prefer hanging the verdict; whereas if they knew life meant LWOP, they might be willing to settle for that. That makes it much harder for them to be unanimous it seems.

Thanks for your insight as always.
 
what's the mental illness? isn't a personality disorder different from a mental illness? and couldn't you say this about pretty much anyone who commits a murder? that there has to be something wrong with them?

I'm not a psychiatrist, but since they offer "not-your-fault" explanations for both personality disorders and "true" mental illnesses, I don't see the distinction as it applies here.

Yes, you could say that pretty much anyone who commits a murder has something wrong with them. But sometimes the "something wrong" seems to be evil, while other times it seems to be craziness. Perhaps this is just our own ignorance, but it's still something a jury is likely to consider.

There is a lot of back & forth going on about the jury being deadlocked or not. Many people are insisting that there is no possible way the judge misunderstood the jury's note. Especially because she brought in the lawyers & families back to the courtroom. What do you think? Is it possible she simply misread the note? If there was a misunderstanding would the judge come out and say that publicly? Also, I am under the impression that she forgot to give the jury part of the instructions (this could be the cause of the jury question episode). Can this cause any future problems? I appreciate any info you can share, I'm trying to clear up some confusion.

If the people in the media who quoted the exact language of the note were correct, then I think she should have responded with, "If you are deadlocked, you should use [whatever form] to inform me of that fact." Then, if she got the form back from them, she should have given the "go back and try harder" speech. I don't think it makes much difference, though--what harm can there be in giving the speech to a jury that is not deadlocked?

I'm not sure if the instruction was really forgotten or was written in response to a request from one side or the other, or what, in fact, the instruction actually was. The media reports were conflicting as usual, and I couldn't find a link to the video that would work on my ipad. :banghead: If anyone can help me out with that, I'll be happy to try to answer the question. Certainly there is a normally-given instruction that says (summarizing) that if they vote "life," the judge decides between LWOP and 25-to-life. If that's the instruction, and if it wasn't given at first but was given before deliberations ended, I don't see the problem.

Firstly , thank you to AZ, and any of the other attorneys that help us understand the trial process - very kind of you to share your knowledge and much appreciated.

My legal question is: If a new jury becomes necessary for the sentencing phase, what happens if the court is unable to find jurors who have not heard or seen any interviews with the convicted individual? Do they move it to another court, or does some action happen automatically (like LWOP)?
In one of the interviews, JA was asked her thoughts if a new jury was needed, to which she responded "good luck finding an untainted jury pool anywhere in the world" - a response I found oddly calm and disturbingly frightening (to be fair, I find much of what she says to be off-putting and frightening - particularly her demeanor). Is this statement something that could be an issue, and if so - why would she be permitted to conduct virtually limitless interviews if it could theoretically impede her chances to a fair trial?
Do First Amendment rights to free speech trump the defendant right to fair trial (sixth amendment maybe?)? Even if the defendant wants that to happen, wouldn't the court intercede to ensure trial can conclude justly?

Sorry for all the questions - really all one long question, and thank you in advance if you are able to answer!

IMO there will be no problem finding an untainted jury. JA is living in a fantasy land in which everything revolves around her. In reality, maybe 25% of the people in Phoenix have paid any attention to this case. And remember that this jury would be instructed to accept as true that JA killed Travis with premeditation and cruelly. So if the potential jurors are only "prejudiced" on those issues, IMO they should be good to go. :)

Three Questions:

1. When a jury question is received by the Court, is the judge allowed to ask for clarification from the jury? Lots of confusion on if the judge misinterpreted the jury question.

2. If the judge cannot ask for clarification, is the response to their question based on the courts interpretation and agreed to by the attorneys? Seems to me that the judge may have given the hung jury instruction as a response since it was a possible interpretation of the question asked.

3. If someone leaked a jury question to the media, would their be consequences for the parties involved? Both the reporter and the party who released the info?

1. Yes, the judge could ask for clarification. In my experience, however, the practice in Maricopa County is to give the jury the most confusing possible response to their questions, as if to prove that judges and lawyers have no idea how to talk to "normal people." :banghead:

2. See above. :)

3. No. Jury questions are public record. Now, this particular judge seems to like to seal things, so I suppose a jury question could be sealed, but we have no indication that this question was sealed.
 
Let's say that Arias is sentenced to death. If the DP is abolished in Arizona prior to her execution, will it automatically be retroactive so as to spare JA? Or automatically non-retroactive? Or could it be either, depending on how the lawmakers want to do it?

First of all, I can't even imagine that happening in AZ unless the death penalty is abolished nationwide, in which case they'll probably make it retroactive. But to answer your question, I think lawmakers could set it up either way.

Looking at the "cold feet" thing from a different angle... Suppose there are no more than three holding out for life, and they all say, "I don't believe any of the mitigation factors and I thought I could vote for DP but now I realize I just can't." In that case, aren't they refusing to follow the court's instructions by refusing to weigh mitigation vs aggravation or however the instruction read? Could the judge replace them with alternates based on that if she knew that was the situation? Wouldn't it be the same thing as if a juror now said, "I believe in the death penalty but not for women / people under 35 / people with some Hispanic heritage / whatever, so I'm voting for life no matter what."

An unrelated question... Do you have any idea whether how AZ does this is similar to other DP states? I would have thought it would be kind of like guilt phase - if they are not unanimous on death then it automatically becomes life. I've been curious about that. It's an interesting dynamic as it is - if someone fears possible release of someone they feel is a menace, they might prefer hanging the verdict; whereas if they knew life meant LWOP, they might be willing to settle for that. That makes it much harder for them to be unanimous it seems.

Thanks for your insight as always.

Let me say first that we have no reason to think any juror is going back on his/her word in voir dire. It is simply not true that any juror who is willing to vote for death would vote for death in this case. There is a lot worse evil than Jodi Arias on AZ death row, believe me. My first job in law school included reviewing and cataloging every holding on every issue in every AZ death penalty case, and the nightmares were awful.

In the guilt phase, if the jury can't agree, it does not automatically make the verdict "not guilty." It means there is a hung jury and the case can be retried to a new jury--just like in this phase. So there's nothing unusual about that part of the process. What's unusual is that, until a few years ago when the Supreme Court came out with the Ring case, these decisions were made by judges, not by juries. At least that's how it worked in AZ--I don't know if other states were using juries for the penalty phase.
 
Who knows? She might have had enough of JA in the courtroom. ;)

oh god, sorry about the grammar in that question- and TY AZlawyer!

The reason why that I asked was because the only logical reason why I can think of why JSS would lift the gag order would be to observe what she would do and say- at this point in her trial.

I am hoping Judge SS has seen all the interviews- in all their glory. SO that if the decision of parole does fall to her ( if the Jury gives her " life")- she sure has some great material there to show...that this woman is not fit for society or fit for parole- ever.

Honestly I don't even this JA is fit for a community of convicts. IMO she is that evil and dangerous.
 
Hi again AZlawyer,

I think perhaps I wasn't that clear with my original "cold feet" question. I'm not asking whether there may be 'other' and possibly legitimate reasons why a juror(s) would not sentence this particular defendant to death. What I was trying to ascertain was, IF a juror(s) have for any reason changed from being a death-qualified juror back in December 2012, to no longer being death-qualified (e.g. they read a certain book, had a parent pass away, an epiphany, or any other possible experience that would have fundamentally changed their ability to sign off on a death sentence), is there any process or mechanism for the court to ascertain this, and if so, can they be replaced by an alternate(s)?

It is a purely hypothetical question, and I agree that there are a host of other factors that could lead to jurors not sentencing this particular defendant to death (including the mental illness issue you raised). Again, not assuming anyone lied in their original voir dire. Just wondering, in the hypothetical case where someone's voir dire concerning the death-penalty had CHANGED over the course of the trial, such that they were no longer death-qualified, whether there are any mechanisms in place for the court or prosecutor to determine, and act on, that.

TIA
 
Hi again AZlawyer,

I think perhaps I wasn't that clear with my original "cold feet" question. I'm not asking whether there may be 'other' and possibly legitimate reasons why a juror(s) would not sentence this particular defendant to death. What I was trying to ascertain was, IF a juror(s) have for any reason changed from being a death-qualified juror back in December 2012, to no longer being death-qualified (e.g. they read a certain book, had a parent pass away, an epiphany, or any other possible experience that would have fundamentally changed their ability to sign off on a death sentence), is there any process or mechanism for the court to ascertain this, and if so, can they be replaced by an alternate(s)?

It is a purely hypothetical question, and I agree that there are a host of other factors that could lead to jurors not sentencing this particular defendant to death (including the mental illness issue you raised). Again, not assuming anyone lied in their original voir dire. Just wondering, in the hypothetical case where someone's voir dire concerning the death-penalty had CHANGED over the course of the trial, such that they were no longer death-qualified, whether there are any mechanisms in place for the court or prosecutor to determine, and act on, that.

TIA

Yes, if a juror reports that another juror is saying that they cannot vote for death no matter what, then that juror could be removed and replaced with an alternate, at which point deliberations would have to start over. Actually, were the alternates even present during the mitigation phase? If not, the whole mitigation phase would have to start over.

Sorry I misunderstood. :)
 
AZ, have you ever heard of a judge giving the allen charge in writing, instead of in open court? she did it yesterday----why wouldn't she do it again today?

not saying that's what happened today, but some defense attorney TH said this may have happened just now.
 
I've seen the video now of the "missed jury instruction." It is an instruction normally given during the AGGRAVATION phase, not the mitigation phase, and I don't know if it was really "missed" during the aggravation phase or not. It would be pretty strange to miss it, since it's the first one in the book of form instructions for that phase, and introduces the whole nature of both the aggravation and mitigation phases. If anyone has time to find the video of instructions for the aggravation phase, here's the one we're looking for (and it should be the first one!):

Members of the jury, I will now instruct you on the law governing these sentencing proceedings after a finding of guilt of first-degree murder.
The defendant in this case has been convicted of the crime of first-degree murder. Under Arizona law every person guilty of first-degree murder shall be punished by death, or imprisonment for life without the possibility of release from prison, or imprisonment for life with the possibility of release after 25 years.
This hearing may include as many as two phases. During this current phase, the jury decides whether any aggravating circumstances exist. If the jury unanimously decides beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one aggravating circumstance exists, then the second phase of the hearing begins.
If the State does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an aggravating circumstance exists, the judge will sentence the defendant to either life imprisonment without the possibility of release, or life imprisonment with the possibility of release after 25 years. If the jury unanimously decides beyond a reasonable doubt that an aggravating circumstance does exist, each juror will decide if mitigating circumstances exist and then, as a jury, you will decide whether to sentence the defendant to life imprisonment or death. If the sentence is life imprisonment then the judge will sentence the defendant to either life imprisonment without the possibility of release from prison, or life imprisonment with the possibility of release from prison after 25 years.
“Life without the possibility of release from prison” means exactly what it says. The sentence of “life without possibility of release from prison” means the defendant will never be eligible to be released from prison for any reason for the rest of the defendant’s life.


Now, you might have noticed that the instruction given yesterday added one sentence about there being no procedure in place currently to arrange for parole after 25 years. I frankly have no idea what this means, but it must be true since JM did not challenge that assertion. Nevertheless, IMO JM was also correct when he said that, if she gets to that 25-year point, she would have a legal right to MAKE the state get some procedure in place to consider her for parole.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
159
Guests online
1,632
Total visitors
1,791

Forum statistics

Threads
606,218
Messages
18,200,612
Members
233,781
Latest member
MG89
Back
Top