jodi arias TAKES THE STAND FOR 14TH DAY #69*may contain graphic and adult content*

[Sleuth13]

Five words of Zen:

This. Ends. With. Juan. Martinez.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. *exhale* THANK YOU!!!!! Sometimes I need a reality check!!

 

[Lexington]

While watching the trial on HLN, I noticed a young woman and a blonde man that I had never seen before sitting with the family. Are they also Travis' siblings?

 

[StephanieHartPI]

What I have always loved to see is when a Prosecutor turns a Defense Expert around and now this is an Expert that worked for him (and at no charge to the Prosecutor)

That can be done with some skill (will be easy for Mr Martinez) in a case when the Defense Expert is testifying to something maybe all of us know is crazy? Like hypothetically a DV Expert says she is certain Travis abused Jodi. blah blah blah.

Mr Martinez should be able to turn that around and drive right over the Defense as I don't believe she was abused by him so he will turn this around because the truth of the matter should surface.

I have heard the DV Expert is renowned, top in her field, someone was a bit worried. I looked her up, she is from here, near me, I read everything and I know all I need to know. I am confident in Mr Martinez 110% What is also possible is Mr Nurmi thinks he knows how it will go and it goes very South. However that is not fully likely as she has already provided him with a report so he knows what she will say. Should she contradict that he will show her the report. But either way, he will have an Expert that is waffling

I loved Dr G. She is very real, tells it like it is. The opposing expert to her? not so much

 

[Hatfield]

6. Every time you flush used toilet paper you laugh wickedly and say Good Riddance Jodi. (or am I the only one?)

7. We happily disregard the age old adage "Never hit someone with glasses"

 

[KaraKitty]

OMG, that is so beautiful! It looks just like BETH!

This is the jewelry we gave Beth today...she said she'd wear it this week...see if you can spot it!

 

[KathrynL]

I've always thought the Phantom of the Opera was about a pyschopath.

I have trouble telling these types apart, psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines.

They all look alike to me. People talk about their problem with rejection. I wonder if they see rejection of themselves as being murdered by the other so they strike out at this perceived threat in kind.



You will curse the day you did not do/
all that the Phantom asked of you

YOU WILL CURSE THE DAY YOU DID NOT DO, ALL THAT THE PHANTOM ASKED OF YOU! - YouTube

BBM

Wow, that insight rang a little bell in my soul. Excellent observation. Even if they don't kill, they take a piece of your soul and sanity. ime

 

[paperwing]

I can't wait to hear what she says. I have had experience with some that shook me to my very core. And it was commonplace, I did not have a unique experience. It's just how it works.

The saying "how do you sleep at night" comes to mind. It is $$ and fame driven. We might think a Expert is paid the typical $450 per / hr. or at times maybe $4000 to $6000 by the time they are done. That is a small amount. But that's not always what they are paid. Some are paid 6 figures (depending on the potential payout someone is trying to avoid - the average Expert Witness in a pool of go to people makes around $50k to appear) or they do it for a few thousand and fame on a big scale such as a high profile case it puts them on the map to just be involved in such a case.

Understanding that some Experts discuss the case and then do not want to do it, they really do give their full honest assessment of what they think after they examine the defendant.. Or some feel they won't be able to give a report favorable to the Defense, then they are out, so the Defense moves to the next expert until they find one that fits the theme they are going with to get the client off.

There are honest experts many of them, in all fields (ask them how much work they get lol). But the Attorneys know the "go to" Experts, the ones that love to do it, become very well known on a National scale. It's almost a game.. You might even see an Expert testify for a case now across the country that you yourself used and you know why they have them too. And some high profile cases brag and get their Expert to say on the stand "What did you get paid to report on this, to examine the remains and come here today?" "nothing at all, I did not and would not take money that is how strongly I felt" OMG.. I have no words. YOU are on NATIONAL TV.. You got it back in gold...(and they get paid $50k to appear in 7 other cases that year, they can throw a free bee in!)

This is why in nearly all cases you see dueling Experts! I don't see they are doing that here, but typically I'd see a DV expert most likely examine and interview Jodi (but she may not have) and then give her report by testifying. Then the Prosecutor would have had her examined by their expert and that person would testify.

Defense might say she behaves in a classic abused women syndrome patter

Prosecution expert might say she does not believe this to be the case in fact, she would call it malingering and she behaves more like her borderline or sociopath patients, not a classic domestic abuse.

One usually just cancels out the other and the Jury might be more engaged with how one comes off on the stand.

Can it ever be about the TRUTH? One would hope? But I am afraid my poor self has been traumatized by these things we always thought were so upstanding. Only to find out how different life is when you get an up close look?

That is kind of why in the Expert part of a Trial, if Jurors knew the ins and outs of experts they may give very little weight to them and most of the weight to the evidence presented.. The Expert was not there when this occurred, the Expert cannot know for certain if a person is lying or telling the truth.. so they are rendering an opinion?

Every now and then when someone who could be classified as an Expert is on the stand, I get a great feeling of sincerity. They just seem truthful. The M.E. that testified in this case, he left me with the impression that he told it like it is. He did not down play or exaggerate.

I'll be on the edge of my seat.. And we just need to keep our fingers crossed we're never in a situation where we are innocent and a slew of experts would be hired and you sit very vulnerable to whatever they want to say. And humans will sleep very well with their check, and not give a moments concern they buried someone.

StephanieHartPI - THANK YOU for the in-depth information!

I'm sure it will never happen, or even how it would, but if there was a way to keep the pile of money out of the picture, it would make room for a pile of justice and fairness that, to me, seems to be missing with the status quo.

I'm having such a hard time believing that a credible, lauded, published, yada yada expert who specializes in DV could support the defense's arguments in ANY way and still retain their credibility (and as you said, their ability to sleep at night).

I don't see how an expert in DV or PTSD could sit there and testify that JA is abused, battered, or that being spanked with a spoon somehow justifies anything, etc.

Even more bothersome on some level, I simply cannot comprehend how such an expert could testify that Travis was a deviant, abusive psychopath (hey, the DT is trying to paint him as controlling, manipulative - as a psychopath!) with subconscious/repressed homosexual and/or pedophilic desires or tendencies... the conflicting and guilt-inducing feelings creating boundless rage in him...

...to the point of wanting to kill his ex girlfriend when she drops his camera - while he's in the middle of a shower.

AND get paid?? And be absolutely comfortable in their own skin?? And feel no ethical or professional delinquency??

I don't see the expert/s testifying for the State as having such a dilemma, because, imv, an expert can ethically and effectively dismantle anything the DT expert says AND provide a professional assessment as to how JA's behaviour fits tongue and groove with the evidence (the real evidence, not JA's stories).

Guess I sound pretty biased.

That's okay, I am.

--- I'm curious about (speaking of experts) what was mentioned on Tricia's show last night - that JM had consulted psychologists and other specialists in preparation of his cross... Do you know anything about that? I'm fascinated about it, I wish there was a way to get all the details, but I'm sure that's not going to happen. I'd love to know what their suggestions were...

Great post. Thank you.

 

[Curious Me]

Ima be pizzed if there is a nasty times trick called "snickerdoodle" or "mallowmars". .

Nobody ruins MY treats!

Leave "mallowmars" alone, Jodi!!!

No "mallowmars" sex please.

I bought some to enjoy while watching your DP Trial.:smile:

 

[borndem]

It seems so black and white to me too, Pink. There's not much up for debate inside my own head.

My only real curiosity is the make and model of her psychopathy simply for curiosity's sake.

bbm

I'm with ya on that one, Kate. And we may hear from a defense expert on JA's-- which certainly we could take to the bank, right??

What type of personality disorder would be most favorable to the defense -- any ideas?

I still have flashes of Ted Bundy when I hear certain parts of testimony in this trial. And he, IIRC, was said to be a narcissistic sociopath: he stopped socially growing up in the 7th/8th grade; when his mom put him in the adoption institution when he was less than a year old and was not given an opportunity to bond in those months (~ 3--6 months old) when it was so critical to humans at that tender age (at least that was the thinking back in the 70's/80's & may still be, IDK); knew he was the smartest one in the room at all times; control freak; chameleon-like; no insight so he was incapable of realizing & understanding the reactions of others in response to what is said or done to them; a facile liar; seeing & using people as objects; no ability to see cause & effect; no conscience, and all the rest of it. But those problems surely didn't mitigate the verdict or punishment he received. Sizzle, sizzle.

And I am still not confident of any particular verdict whatsoever -- the FCA verdict is a grain of that feeling, but not a large part of it. I don't see 12 people agreeing on NG, but hung still looms large in my mind in spite of JM's brilliance. I worry, BritsKate, I worry.

ramble over...

 

[pollybear]

I dont think Travis used her. You cant use someone who is so willing to stick their butt up in the air for the taking.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[parker38]

I just wanted to say something regarding anyone with a personality disorder.
I don't know about the others but BPD people are not of the same
substance.
I know it's hard on family/friends of a BPD, but on the other hand
you have to know that dealing from within they are in this shell
24/7.
No cure but the disorder can be managed with meds and attending
DBT classes. (Dialectible Behavior Therapy) and if you are serious
and attend these classes the outcome is great when you're taught
everything is not black or white; but shades of gray also.
It opens a door that you never thought you'd enter.

I know this doesn't belong on this thread and I apologize but
only reading the negativity bothered me. It's very tiring and
hard to remain mindful and it takes a lot of work and you really
have to want to change.

 

[neesaki]

Very well said!! I couldn't agree more!! I've had to take a break from this case bc I find myself becoming a very hateful person!! While "killer" may suck some people in with whatever spell or charm some say they've seen, I find that she repels me to no end!! I avoided the boards all weekend and had to turn her testimony off today! I couldn't agree more that TA's private thoughts should have remained just that! As if his BRUTAL SLAYING wasn't harsh enough, "that murderer" has to lie, and lie, and lie some more with a massive amount of word twisting in between!! She DISGUSTS me and I would love nothing more than to use vacation time at work one day to watch a needle be inserted as she begins her descent into the fire filled dungeon of the devil himself!! (See, I told ya she makes me hateful!)

As each day goes by, I find myself praying a little longer and a little harder for all of his family and friends!!

Bless you, I know what you mean and am just about to that point myself. I only watched a small portion of the trial this morning, then left and went on with my life. What the defense is doing now is such an unethical miscarriage of true justice it makes me ill. Furthermore, their actions show complete disrespect for victims rights. In this case, for Travis, the only victim in this case, one of unthinkable, unspeakable, cruelty and violence at the hands of a remorseless murderer. I am completely sickened and disgusted, and won't continue to give Nurmi and psychopath, liar JA the time of day as long as this continues along this vein. I'll mainly keep up here on WS and will bide my time patiently (or impatiently) for the :hero: and Voice for Justice, Juan Martinez ... :heartluv:

 

[molly333]

BBM

Wow, that insight rang a little bell in my soul. Excellent observation. Even if they don't kill, they take a piece of your soul and sanity. ime

Right. She's doing the soul murder thing with Travis, now.

The ones that don't kill limit themselves to that, I guess.

But, what was she threatening him with in those text messages?

She toyed with going in that direction first, I think.

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

OOPS! I was bored! :moo:

I feel for the poor soul that sits and watches him doing this then having to shake his hand. :floorlaugh:

 

[K_Z]

I can't wait to hear what she says. I have had experience with some that shook me to my very core. And it was commonplace, I did not have a unique experience. It's just how it works.

The saying "how do you sleep at night" comes to mind. It is $$ and fame driven. We might think a Expert is paid the typical $450 per / hr. or at times maybe $4000 to $6000 by the time they are done. That is a small amount. But that's not always what they are paid. Some are paid 6 figures (depending on the potential payout someone is trying to avoid - the average Expert Witness in a pool of go to people makes around $50k to appear) or they do it for a few thousand and fame on a big scale such as a high profile case it puts them on the map to just be involved in such a case.

Understanding that some Experts discuss the case and then do not want to do it, they really do give their full honest assessment of what they think after they examine the defendant.. Or some feel they won't be able to give a report favorable to the Defense, then they are out, so the Defense moves to the next expert until they find one that fits the theme they are going with to get the client off.

There are honest experts many of them, in all fields (ask them how much work they get lol). But the Attorneys know the "go to" Experts, the ones that love to do it, become very well known on a National scale. It's almost a game.. You might even see an Expert testify for a case now across the country that you yourself used and you know why they have them too. And some high profile cases brag and get their Expert to say on the stand "What did you get paid to report on this, to examine the remains and come here today?" "nothing at all, I did not and would not take money that is how strongly I felt" OMG.. I have no words. YOU are on NATIONAL TV.. You got it back in gold...(and they get paid $50k to appear in 7 other cases that year, they can throw a free bee in!)

This is why in nearly all cases you see dueling Experts! I don't see they are doing that here, but typically I'd see a DV expert most likely examine and interview Jodi (but she may not have) and then give her report by testifying. Then the Prosecutor would have had her examined by their expert and that person would testify.

Defense might say she behaves in a classic abused women syndrome patter

Prosecution expert might say she does not believe this to be the case in fact, she would call it malingering and she behaves more like her borderline or sociopath patients, not a classic domestic abuse.

One usually just cancels out the other and the Jury might be more engaged with how one comes off on the stand.

Can it ever be about the TRUTH? One would hope? But I am afraid my poor self has been traumatized by these things we always thought were so upstanding. Only to find out how different life is when you get an up close look?

That is kind of why in the Expert part of a Trial, if Jurors knew the ins and outs of experts they may give very little weight to them and most of the weight to the evidence presented.. The Expert was not there when this occurred, the Expert cannot know for certain if a person is lying or telling the truth.. so they are rendering an opinion?

Every now and then when someone who could be classified as an Expert is on the stand, I get a great feeling of sincerity. They just seem truthful. The M.E. that testified in this case, he left me with the impression that he told it like it is. He did not down play or exaggerate.

I'll be on the edge of my seat.. And we just need to keep our fingers crossed we're never in a situation where we are innocent and a slew of experts would be hired and you sit very vulnerable to whatever they want to say. And humans will sleep very well with their check, and not give a moments concern they buried someone.

I just wanted to respond briefly to this, because I have served as an expert witness for civil "med mal" litigation. In my profession, we have an ethical code for those serving as experts. My fee is always set in advance of the first formal meeting, before I ever see the case records (hourly, with separate fee schedule for court days).

My fee is never dependent on the outcome of the civil lawsuit. I bill as I go, and have been involved with cases that went over 3 1/2 years, before settling as I was driving to the courthouse to testify for one case. What I do is very small potatoes compared to high priced experts for criminal cases, but I'd like to think that my opinion is my opinion, regardless of whether I review a case for the plaintiff or defendant's attorney. I have reviewed charts for a defendant's attorney, rendered a very detailed written opinion (similar to a long term paper, with dozens of references), and was paid for my time-- and NEVER contacted by the attorney again. Probably because what I had to say was not favorable for their client.

 

[paperwing]

Okay, I'll bite. No, I don't think she's coming off in a positive way at all. However, I do think the underlying dynamic of the relationship has been proven sufficiently that it's more a heat of passion case than a premeditated murder case. I saw earlier today that one of the lawyers answered the lesser-included question, so it looks like a second degree verdict is possible. That was the main issue I had been wondering about. So if the lesser included is on the table, I don't see the dp.

eta: my dd thinks she's dp eligible for her bangs alone :/

I'm just curious, Karmady: What's your take on the gun? Do you think she stole it from the house she was living in? Do you think it was Travis'?

How do you define premeditation - as in how long it takes to form?

Do you know if act-of-passion is an option? It's not the defense's justification argument of self-defense, nor is it part of the State's charges. Do you know how that would work?

I missed the answer about lesser-included... do you know if it's in the legal Q thread so I can try to find it?

Thanks - and sorry for all the questions. I will be honest: I don't see eye to eye with you on some things, which I don't see as a negative - but as a learning experience (hopefully), but I am curious about your views, so if you feel like answering any of the above, I TYIA.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Five words of Zen:

This. Ends. With. Juan. Martinez.

Hi Katie!

Love the necklace and earrings - they will look great on Beth and I'm sure she will be thrilled!

Speaking of Juan - have you seen this clip of him discussing the DP? He isn't wearing his glasses and he looks sexy adorable, LOL!

Also note what one of the jurors on a DP case had to say about determining the mitigating factor and why they voted for the DP.

After the Verdict:

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi1739824153/

Thanks again for all you do - hope all is well with Jordy.

DT

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

Someone up thread researched the word ravish and put the posting of the dictionary term as different. I agree with you. I am southern. I am ravished when I'm hungry for dinner and want my food on the table.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

We always said we were 'famished' when we were hungry. Regional differences are something else!

 

[neesaki]

fftopic: But I need something of beauty to offset all of this ugliness:

[video=youtube;1zxjBEiAI_Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zxjBEiAI_Q[/video]

 

[StephanieHartPI]

StephanieHartPI - THANK YOU for the in-depth information!

I'm sure it will never happen, or even how it would, but if there was a way to keep the pile of money out of the picture, it would make room for a pile of justice and fairness that, to me, seems to be missing with the status quo.

I'm having such a hard time believing that a credible, lauded, published, yada yada expert who specializes in DV could support the defense's arguments in ANY way and still retain their credibility (and as you said, their ability to sleep at night).

I don't see how an expert in DV or PTSD could sit there and testify that JA is abused, battered, or that being spanked with a spoon somehow justifies anything, etc.

Even more bothersome on some level, I simply cannot comprehend how such an expert could testify that Travis was a deviant, abusive psychopath (hey, the DT is trying to paint him as controlling, manipulative - as a psychopath!) with subconscious/repressed homosexual and/or pedophilic desires or tendencies... the conflicting and guilt-inducing feelings creating boundless rage in him...

...to the point of wanting to kill his ex girlfriend when she drops his camera - while he's in the middle of a shower.

AND get paid?? And be absolutely comfortable in their own skin?? And feel no ethical or professional delinquency??

I don't see the expert/s testifying for the State as having such a dilemma, because, imv, an expert can ethically and effectively dismantle anything the DT expert says AND provide a professional assessment as to how JA's behaviour fits tongue and groove with the evidence (the real evidence, not JA's stories).

Guess I sound pretty biased.

That's okay, I am.

--- I'm curious about (speaking of experts) what was mentioned on Tricia's show last night - that JM had consulted psychologists and other specialists in preparation of his cross... Do you know anything about that? I'm fascinated about it, I wish there was a way to get all the details, but I'm sure that's not going to happen. I'd love to know what their suggestions were...

Great post. Thank you.

I would LOVE to know if the Prosecutor had her examined (interviewed) and what happened (that might be the little lady with a brief case that went running from the Maricopa jail and was seen in Alaska..still running)

These two were mentioned richard samual psychologist alyce laviolette battered women. My thought was they are both for the Defense.

Once a Defendant Lawyers up, its really hard for the Prosecutor to get near her. They will get copies of these two Witnesses reports, but I am curious if they had their own Experts examine her??