Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[LaneGirl]

It is good to hear someone explaining the ME's report and testimony in terms that we can understand. It is hard to make sense of but you have explained it so that many of us understand what happened to poor Travis. I remember when we were listing to Dr. Vass. He did make it easier to understand what before sounded so complicated. Thanks

I totally agree. I also think the gun shot came first and I come over to this thread for that very reason. Many people have different backgrounds and can explain things in layman terms. I personally was confused by the ME and thought he was noncommital and unsure at times in his testimony. Also I've read some documents that show the States position was gun first in the beginning. Very informative posters here.

 

[wilsodh]

You do realize your picture is from a drawing that exaggerates spaces so one can learn the spaces names? Do you realize there is blood and significant vessels that are in these spaces that would be injured and cause bleeding even if the brain wasn't injured? You do realize that last picture is of a cadaver that all the organs decrease in size and have all the blood drained from them which also helps decrease the life like quality and anatomical location of organs enough to make a difference? Look up some real life brain surgery photos and see how close the brain is to the skull without the exaggerated spaces from a drawing or a cadaver that has been dead for a very long time. Especially a surgery that has had trauma and has resulted in swelling and bleeding around the brain, the brain can literally bulge from the cranial cavity and require removal of part of the skull just to have enough room and not result in damage

Well, we are not talking about brain swelling prior to the shot, are we? Do you really know the volume of space between the bone and the brain at the particular site of the bullet damage? Well even if you studied anatomy, you couldn't, because none of us know the exact site of the fossa penetration based on the minimal description Horn presented in the autopsy report.

The fact of the matter is you continue to ignore the complete absence of anything in the report that indicates the brain was penetrated by the bullet. And, worse, you choose to ignore the information Horn wrote that suggests there WAS no brain penetration.

Let us at least all agree that the autopsy report represents a primary, objective source of forensic information. This information was recorded shortly after the murder before any potential for politics and influence to possibly lead Horn to spin the findings toward one preferred scenario or another.

So, really, WHO is doing all the assuming??? :facepalm:

Dave

 

[danzn16]

Hey, I'm the only sheep in the family. :blushing: So I guess it was directed to me.

Hahaha!!

 

[danzn16]

Well, we are not talking about brain swelling prior to the shot, are we? Do you really know the volume of space between the bone and the brain at the particular site of the bullet damage? Well even if you studied anatomy, you couldn't, because none of us know the exact site of the fossa penetration based on the minimal description Horn presented in the autopsy report.

The fact of the matter is you continue to ignore the complete absence of anything in the report that indicates the brain was penetrated by the bullet. And, worse, you choose to ignore the information Horn wrote that suggests there WAS no brain penetration.

Let us at least all agree that the autopsy report represents a primary, objective source of forensic information. This information was recorded shortly after the murder before any potential for politics and influence to possibly lead Horn to spin the findings toward one preferred scenario or another.

So, really, WHO is doing all the assuming??? :facepalm:

Dave

We'll just have to agree to agree to disagree. I see in his autopsy report where he says there was injury to the brain and where he was talking about other injuries. I disagree he left anything out. You however take it differently, and thats fine. I think the ME speaking on the trial was an extra way for him to explain what was said. You take it that he's lying under oath and risking his license. I just think it takes too much speculation to say another theory happened when both the ME and The blood spatter analyst agree shot came last. But that's what this thread is for! I would actually like if the Me was questioned more so we could hear more directly from him. And I would love he trajectory of the skull to be made so we could see the entrance and exit wounds. I think it would be incredibly helpful

 

[missgulfsouth]

Can anyone tell me why this freak is sneaking files under her rear end in court while cameras are on her???? What is she DOING?! I just have to say, I watched every single day of the Scott Peterson trial, but JA and her face are so offensive to me, I want to scratch my eyes out with a fork. I can not wait for this trial to be OVER.

 

[molly333]

Can anyone tell me why this freak is sneaking files under her rear end in court while cameras are on her???? What is she DOING?! I just have to say, I watched every single day of the Scott Peterson trial, but JA and her face are so offensive to me, I want to scratch my eyes out with a fork. I can not wait for this trial to be OVER.

The whole thing is just unbelievable. I was thinking tonight--she's sitting in that interrogation room singing and doing headstands and worrying over her hair--and what she did to that poor man. I just can't wrap my head around it.

I told a friend tonight, I feel more remorse over Travis than she does.

Ultimately, Jodi Arias makes no sense to me.

IMO

 

[sacrablue]

Can anyone tell me why this freak is sneaking files under her rear end in court while cameras are on her???? What is she DOING?! I just have to say, I watched every single day of the Scott Peterson trial, but JA and her face are so offensive to me, I want to scratch my eyes out with a fork. I can not wait for this trial to be OVER.

I think the file stayed on the desk top imo.

 

[LambChop]

Well, we are not talking about brain swelling prior to the shot, are we? Do you really know the volume of space between the bone and the brain at the particular site of the bullet damage? Well even if you studied anatomy, you couldn't, because none of us know the exact site of the fossa penetration based on the minimal description Horn presented in the autopsy report.

The fact of the matter is you continue to ignore the complete absence of anything in the report that indicates the brain was penetrated by the bullet. And, worse, you choose to ignore the information Horn wrote that suggests there WAS no brain penetration.

Let us at least all agree that the autopsy report represents a primary, objective source of forensic information. This information was recorded shortly after the murder before any potential for politics and influence to possibly lead Horn to spin the findings toward one preferred scenario or another.

So, really, WHO is doing all the assuming??? :facepalm:

Dave

Well, really I would say anyone who does not agree with Dr. Horn is assuming since he wrote it. The State was going with shot first and that was their defense. Juan's only concern seems to be Nurmi accusing the State of misconduct. Juan appears to care less what came first because he just does not have to prove it to the jury. All he has to prove is she knowingly switched weapons at some point when she could have escaped. If Travis knew where he placed the knife and if he were shot he would be the one to get it to protect himself because according to Jodi he could still function. Jodi claims he never had the knife.

Jodi claims Travis came through the closet door just as she was grabbing the gun. If this were his gun and he knew what she grabbed why would he chase her when there was a perfectly good exit out the bedroom door and down the steps behind him. He had a gun pointed at his head before this. Her story just does not make sense. No one is that crazy to charge someone with a gun when there is a way to escape right behind you. jmo

Where is

 

[wilsodh]

I guess you missed the part of the ME's testimony that said it was possible the lungs were punctured and he couldn't tell because of decomp. I guess you missed the part about how it was possible the knife stabs could have entered so deeply they entered the body cavities but decomp made it difficult to tell. And I guess you also missed the part where TA's hair was too short to absorb any force and slow down any stab wounds.

Have you seen any stab wounds of this nature? They bleed and they bleed a lot and can sometimes be deceiving on the severity of the injury, especially scalp and facial wounds.

And you're saying that a gun shot to the head could only cause massive bleeding? Well geez you guys have been discussing how he didn't bleed in head because it didn't hit any important structures in the brain??

Listen to the testimony....'possible', 'possible', 'possible'...

I guess we ALL missed the part where Horn is certain about much of anything beyond the neck slash and vena cava wound, including the part that Travis would have been immediately incapacitated by a headshot. Can you say 'fuzzy forensics'? Is that all you guys got to keep trying to force-fit this loser to the evidence??:banghead:

Ok, maybe I'm entering the Twilight Zone here, but I think I'm hearing knifers argue, on one hand, that blood doesn't decompose at the same rate as the brain, and therefore Horn's intracranial observations are valid, and on the other hand (your comments above) that the decomposition of the blood and tissues was such that the extent of bleeding could not be reliably ascertained.

:doh:

Dave

 

[LambChop]

Can anyone tell me why this freak is sneaking files under her rear end in court while cameras are on her???? What is she DOING?! I just have to say, I watched every single day of the Scott Peterson trial, but JA and her face are so offensive to me, I want to scratch my eyes out with a fork. I can not wait for this trial to be OVER.

Glad you're not holding anything back. lol

 

[deedee21]

I learned how to do this my first time shooting a gun. So I knew how as a novice. It's possible JA did too. And I don't know if she knows nothing about guns. She's a pathological liar. And it's possible she's telling the truth too. But you don't have to be proficient with guns to know how to do this, but you would have to be told or you could just do it from instinct if you see a casing sticking out. It would also be interesting to know what type of gun it was because that could increase the likelihood of this happening.

Travis was shot with a 25 caliber. The same type of gun her grandfather reported stolen. (I dont believe it was stolen). She also was in possesion of a 9mm. That tells me she knows something about guns. Im sure theres some shell casings somewhere that match the one found in Travises house.

 

[sacrablue]

The whole thing is just unbelievable. I was thinking tonight--she's sitting in that interrogation room singing and doing headstands and worrying over her hair--and what she did to that poor man. I just can't wrap my head around it.

I told a friend tonight, I feel more remorse over Travis than she does.

Ultimately, Jodi Arias makes no sense to me.

IMO

She gets bored in those interrogation rooms. Needs to stretch, flush her face and stay busy. Anxiety makes people do things to help them relax.

 

[molly333]

Listen to the testimony....'possible', 'possible', 'possible'...

I guess we ALL missed the part where Horn is certain about much of anything beyond the neck slash and vena cava wound, including the part that Travis would have been immediately incapacitated by a headshot. Can you say 'fuzzy forensics'? Is that all you guys got to keep trying to force-fit this loser to the evidence??:banghead:

--snip--

Dave

That's right. Equivocate is his middle name.


/iˈkwivəˌkāt/

Verb

Use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing oneself.


IMO

 

[missgulfsouth]

The whole thing is just unbelievable. I was thinking tonight--she's sitting in that interrogation room singing and doing headstands and worrying over her hair--and what she did to that poor man. I just can't wrap my head around it.

I told a friend tonight, I feel more remorse over Travis than she does.

Ultimately, Jodi Arias makes no sense to me.

IMO

I think the file stayed on the desk top imo.

I just watched the footage on NG....it disappeared off the table....and went right under her nasty southern hemisphere. And then the video showed her doing it again another time! The way she was rifling through that trash can in the interrogation room, I could picture her doing that to Travis' belongings - computer, phone, etc. She obviously feels entitled to look at things that aren't any of her business, and take things that don't belong to her. Is she a clepto? I also think she's an exhibitionist freak, but that's for another post....

 

[wilsodh]

We'll just have to agree to agree to disagree. I see in his autopsy report where he says there was injury to the brain and where he was talking about other injuries. I disagree he left anything out. You however take it differently, and thats fine. I think the ME speaking on the trial was an extra way for him to explain what was said. You take it that he's lying under oath and risking his license. I just think it takes too much speculation to say another theory happened when both the ME and The blood spatter analyst agree shot came last. But that's what this thread is for! I would actually like if the Me was questioned more so we could hear more directly from him. And I would love he trajectory of the skull to be made so we could see the entrance and exit wounds. I think it would be incredibly helpful

Well, I agree with your closing comments!

Can you highlight where in the autopsy report Horn says there was injury to the brain? I honestly could not find anything.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Ammonitida]

So here is a video about how easy and fast it is to clear a gun jam. JA could have had time to clear it if the gun jammed, especially since TA was already hit with one bullet in the head if you are a gun firster. However we don't know how experienced JA is with a gun. And no reason for her to have a back up knife either. Just wanted to share this with people that don't know about firearms.

http://youtu.be/ZUXjY9Y_vBE

Like you said, we don't know how experienced Jodi is with a gun. A single jam could have easily been enough to compel her to use another weapon IMO. And there is a reason to have a back up knife. She may have feared something like this happening, being a toy-like gun and all. I'd be worried too going up against a 200 pound man with that pea shooter.

 

[suepitzl]

I cannot believe more than 70% who answered the poll thought he was stabbed first. He had to have been shot first when he was in the shower, how could she have just attacked him with a knife first? Makes no sense. IMO

 

[missgulfsouth]

Glad you're not holding anything back. lol

It's not often that someone gets under my skin like a fungus, but JA does. I have not watched this trial simply because I can't stand the sight of her.

 

[sacrablue]

I just watched to footage on NG....it disappeared off the table....and went right under her nasty southern hemisphere. And then the video showed her doing it again another time! The way she was rifling through that trash can in the interrogation room, I could picture her doing that to Travis' belongings - computer, phone, etc. She obviously feels entitled to look at things that aren't any of her business, and take things that don't belong to her. Is she a clepto? I also think she's an exhibitionist freak, but that's for another post....

My bad, I thought she faked the camera out.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I cannot believe more than 70% who answered the poll thought he was stabbed first. He had to have been shot first when he was in the shower, how could she have just attacked him with a knife first? Makes no sense. IMO

I agree.