Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Whisperer]

This person is pulling this woman by her shirt, isn't he? Could Jodi pull a man slick with blood backward by his shoulders?

unlikely. I think she pulled him by the arms in an attempt to turn him on his back.

 

[Mountaindreamer]

I think she stabbed him first. I can't wrap my head around him defending himself after a shot in the forehead. I can't think of any case where a shot in the forehead didn't immediately cause unconsciousness. No one takes a bullet in the frontal lobe and walks around for a few minutes.

If she had grazed his forehead and it did'nt pierce the skull, than it would be possible but the bullet went through the skull. I think she was crouched down when he was sitting and she stabbed him in the chest. He couldn't believe it and lunged at her as she was moving. He and she reached the sinks and he stood up and gagged. Then she started stabbing him again. This time getting him near the heart. When he went towards her she stabbed him in the head. She headed to the bdrm to grab the cell phone so he couldn't call for help...and he crawled after her, begging for help, grabbing at her. At this point she didn't have the gun, she picked up his head from the back and slit his throat. She turns him over near the wall to get him on his back. She then drags him back to the b/r and sits him near the shower door where he slumps. She takes a few breathes. She removes her bloody socks (his) and pants and gets the gun. She shoots him outside the shower while he is slumped. She wants to make it appear as if there were two people. One with a knife; one with a gun.

She pulls him into the shower. Turns on the water and lets it run all over him.

She puts all the clothing, towels, mats everything in a garbage bag (were they kept under the sink or linen closet?). She cleans up in ths shower, straddling him. She may have kept the shorts and tank top(I assume under the sweats) on while she showered. She cleans up, locks his bdrm door, goes barefoot to the kitchen and then the laundry, sneaking out the garage to her car, still wet,, taking necessary items with her. Arizona heat would have her dry in no time.

I am leaning towards stabbing first and the reason is, if she wanted to just kill him she could have while he slept bam and she would be gone. i think she wanted him to suffer, i think she was yelling at him about not taking her to Cancun while she was stabbing him, she wanted him to feel it. so sad

 

[SMK]

This person is pulling this woman by her shirt, isn't he? Could Jodi pull a man slick with blood backward by his shoulders?

No, I was only trying to show the position: I said like that , but by his arms as handles. The other pic had confused me showing him being dragged face first with torso set to topple down onto the outstreched legs....

 

[Captain86]

Here's my depiction of how JA dragged TA back to the bathroom.

Sorry, I'm no artist!

That would be a hard way to drag a body. Which may make exactly the way she did it.

 

[TexMex]

Jodi Arias Trial : Day 6 : Shocking Photos (No Sidebars) - YouTube

Camera and photo testimony from Day 6

 

[geevee]

The patterns of the blood on his shoulder match the streaks in the following photo. JM pointed out in court that they matched.

I read JM as pointing out that the dark lines in both photos were blood, not that they necessarily matched a pattern.

 

[Captain86]

Part of me keeps nagging that she must have shot him first. A knife would be easy to spot on approach and overpowering him would be hard if he saw it. I think she shot him and brought the knife in case the shot didn't kill him. And when it didn't kill him right away, she went into an even worse enraged frenzy and that's why there's so many stab wounds. But the throat injury is so brutal.. so unnecessary.. makes me wonder if she shot him last. Either way, it'll be a travesty if she is not found guilty.

--MOO

A knife isn't that hard to conceal. A gun has to lifted so that it is oriented toward the victim, then aimed, at least a little. A knife can stay in your back pocket (or belt area) until you are ready to stab the person. It takes what, a half second to take your hand from your back pocket to your arm is fully extended at chest level. Yeah, it be easy for him to see it and defend himself if she came stalking down the hall holding the knife like Norman Bates in Psycho, but I don't imagine he saw it until he was stabbed at least once. It isn't that hard to get into striking distance with a knife, especially with someone who is somewhat comforatble with you.

Shooting him first would make the most sense, but there is enough evidence both ways for the order to be debated.

 

[geevee]

Jodi Arias Trial : Day 6 : Shocking Photos (No Sidebars) - YouTube

Camera and photo testimony from Day 6

Thanks for the link.

Does any one think this looks like flying blood?

Here is the same picture with embossing, so you can see the outlines of it:

ETA:

Here is the same picture, in negative as well as embossing on the negative, you can clearly see it is on top of the shower stall and door edges, I do think this is the first blood Travis spilled that day, photo taken 2 seconds after button depressed/gun fired:

 

[Midnight Meddler]

Can I see a pic of what you guys are referring to with the blood in the shower? I know people also think that they can see two people in his eyes, but the extra shadow can be a wall for all we know... and I've already gone over why I am sure that JA would have coughed up an accomplice the minute they found the camera with her pics on it, if there was one. lol.

I thought that too.. but, her hands are tied now. If she throws 'him', her accomplice, under the bus, that would mean it was premeditated murder for sure!!

 

[BW0000]

Jodi Arias Trial : Day 6 : Shocking Photos (No Sidebars) - YouTube

Camera and photo testimony from Day 6

Glad you put this up tex

The final question Willmott asked Melendez was something like...you do agree the timestamps are correct or accurate, don't you? He says yes...The camera is on her and she mutters something. Any lip readers.

Day 7 (no sidebars) 56:00-59:00, she talks about pictures (nude) SHE says...Prior to T getting his camera, all those pictures were on MY camera. This if I remember right, this is after Flores tells her T deleted all these type picture from his pc and cell phone. She is very interest in Melendez testimony as well as the guy who used encase on T's computer and her hd and cell phone. Something not right.

Day 7 she also tells Flores she just finish a book by whoever and whatever. I thought she has a problem concentrating when reading.

Day 7...around 50:33 SHE admits pictures are compelling and timestamps can be altered or modified as well as date timestamps.

Day 7..if I did this I would wear gloves. Maybe she wore the gloves used to dye hair.

 

[weather_lady]

Here's my depiction of how JA dragged TA back to the bathroom.

Sorry, I'm no artist!

I appreciate your depiction (and your thoughts). I think your depiction of what we're seeing of TA (back and side of chest) is spot on, but I still picture JA on the other end of TA, dragging him backward by the arms.

A "backward drag by the arms" is often seen on TV, in footage of law enforcement officers removing passive protesters from a public place. (If you google the term "protester dragged" or "dragging protesters" you'll see several examples, where an individual on his or her back is being dragged backwards by someone who is gripping their hands or arms.) If the "dragger" is standing and leaning backward for leverage (which also lifts the person being dragged higher and reduces their friction with the ground), it results in a similarly high angle of the torso, such as that seen in the photo, and with the head of the passive "dragee" falling toward their chest, rather than backward.

 

[geevee]

These blown page margins are making my eyes fall out.

 

[pip]

I appreciate your depiction (and your thoughts). I think your depiction of what we're seeing of TA (back and side of chest) is spot on, but I still picture JA on the other end of TA, dragging him backward by the arms.

A "backward drag by the arms" is often seen on TV, in footage of law enforcement officers removing passive protesters from a public place. (If you google the term "protester dragged" or "dragging protesters" you'll see several examples, where an individual on his or her back is being dragged backwards by someone who is gripping their hands or arms.) If the "dragger" is standing and leaning backward for leverage (which also lifts the person being dragged higher and reduces their friction with the ground), it results in a similarly high angle of the torso, such as that seen in the photo, and with the head of the passive "dragee" falling toward their chest, rather than backward.

This picture is like trying to see what the whole puzzle image looks like by looking at one puzzle piece. Who is to say for certain that she is dragging him in this photo, or that if she is that she is even dragging him by any of his appendages? There is definitely an item she has covered him in, you can see it. We cannot tell by the pic if it is just on top of him or whether it may be under him as well. We can't tell what body part is really showing for certain. She could be dragging him by the wrap material for all we know. There is just not enough info in this puzzle piece to nail down what is really going on. I am most interested in what the item is that we see she has added to cover him.

 

[BW0000]

Glad you put this up tex

The final question Willmott asked Melendez was something like...you do agree the timestamps are correct or accurate, don't you? He says yes...The camera is on her and she mutters something. Any lip readers.

Day 7 (no sidebars) 56:00-59:00, she talks about pictures (nude) SHE says...Prior to T getting his camera, all those pictures were on MY camera. This if I remember right, this is after Flores tells her T deleted all these type picture from his pc and cell phone. She is very interest in Melendez testimony as well as the guy who used encase on T's computer and her hd and cell phone. Something not right.

Day 7 she also tells Flores she just finish a book by whoever and whatever. I thought she has a problem concentrating when reading.

Day 7...around 50:33 SHE admits pictures are compelling and timestamps can be altered or modified as well as date timestamps.

Day 7..if I did this I would wear gloves. Maybe she wore the gloves used to dye hair.

Day 6 16:10 on the lip reading. JM questioning Melendez, not Wilmott

 

[Mountaindreamer]

These blown page margins are making my eyes fall out.

LOL that is so funny, i was thinking the same thing. what is going on

 

[RealityMan]

I appreciate your depiction (and your thoughts). I think your depiction of what we're seeing of TA (back and side of chest) is spot on, but I still picture JA on the other end of TA, dragging him backward by the arms.

A "backward drag by the arms" is often seen on TV, in footage of law enforcement officers removing passive protesters from a public place. (If you google the term "protester dragged" or "dragging protesters" you'll see several examples, where an individual on his or her back is being dragged backwards by someone who is gripping their hands or arms.) If the "dragger" is standing and leaning backward for leverage (which also lifts the person being dragged higher and reduces their friction with the ground), it results in a similarly high angle of the torso, such as that seen in the photo, and with the head of the passive "dragee" falling toward their chest, rather than backward.

Thanks for your comments.

If JA was dragging TA in the way that you describe, wouldn't some of JA's body be in the last photo?

 

[RealityMan]

LOL that is so funny, i was thinking the same thing. what is going on

Sorry. LOL. The image I posted was too large, apparently, and now I can't fix it!

 

[geevee]

No prob RM, hopefully when we get to the next page any replies to your post
will be with the pic removed. lol

 

[wilsodh]

What aspects of the crime scene that followed would be hard to make sense of? I have ideas on some things, but it would help to know what you're looking at, so we're on the same page.

The question: was Travis dead in the 'foot' photo, or did he die on the carpet?

If he were dead on the tiles from the final throat slash, it is hard to make any sense of the crime scene that followed.

Consider the attached diagram.

If Travis were dead on the tiles, there would have been a massive spillage of blood at the location of the 'foot' photo (around photo "a"). While there was heavy bleeding (as depicted in the foot photo), the question I would have is where is all the blood from a full blown neck exsanguination?

It has been hypothesized that after the throat slash, Travis' body was moved toward the bedroom for unknown reasons. During this movement, the camera snapped the 'dragging' photo. Thus, Travis had 76 seconds to bleed out on the tiles from severed carotid arteries before the 'dragging' photo.

But looking at the totality of the scene, it appears greatest blood loss occurred on the carpet, in a relatively limited area (photo "c"). Looking at the photos and the diagram, the blood was still flowing, even as Jodi maneuvered Travis' around, and then dragged him down the hallway toward the bathroom.

Conspicuously absent is heavy blood in location "b", between locations "a" and "c". Even more conspicuously absent is a gigantic blood smear from when Jodi would have been dragging Travis' body through a pool of blood from 76 seconds of carotid exsanguination. In the 'foot' photo, Travis' feet are oriented toward the bathroom. Therefore Jodi would have had to pull Travis through his own pool of blood to get him to the bedroom.

I think the blood evidence in locations "a" and "b" demonstrates that Travis did not bleed out on the tiles, but rather bled out on the carpet.

The general death scene after the 'foot' photo follows a counterclockwise direction. There was much blood letting prior to the foot photo, Travis probably collapsed, regained some of his bearing on the floor, made one last instinctive, if feeble, attempt to get away by rolling to his left and getting on hands and knees against the blood-smeared wall, probably sustained some back stabs, and collapsed or was pushed down on the carpet by Jodi. Then Jodi ended it with a very deep throat slash. I imagine to cut to the spine, she would have had to saw, even with a very sharp knife.

Next Jodi made two attempts to move Travis' body back toward the bathroom while Travis was still face down and bleeding (as reflected in the blood trail animating from the blood pool on the carpet). She then decided to turn Travis over on his back and re-positioned his body head toward the bathroom. This left extensive and heavy blood stains on the carpet to the left of the blood pool (diagram photo "d"). She then proceeded to drag Travis back to the bathroom, knocking the camera and triggering the 2-second delay. This gave us the final 'dragging' photo.

If Travis had bled out on the tiles, the crime scene that followed the 'foot' photo doesn't make sense to me.... if we let the blood do all the talking.

Happy to discuss alternative ideas!

Dave

 

[RealityMan]

The question: was Travis dead in the 'foot' photo, or did he die on the carpet?

If he were dead on the tiles from the final throat slash, it is hard to make any sense of the crime scene that followed.

Hey Dave, isn't it possible that TA's neck was already slashed on the carpet area before the first bleeding photo? I think the last two bleeding photos may simply show JA starting to drag TA back to the bathroom after having already cut his neck.