JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon
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otg
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Wow, Ch. I'm impressed. I didn't know when the Energy Star program began. So that kind of narrows down just how new (or old) it could be.
That would make sense. It looks to me like the pipes (H/C) into the top of the water heater are "hard" pipes. ( as opposed to flexible lines) If the installation was done after painting I'd be surprised, as there is no scratching/chipping from the installation. I'd have to say they were painted after installation.
Darlene733510
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I can't tell by looking at that 5 gallon bucket what is in it. It could be pieces of pipe, pipe wrenches, etc. Is that what you think was used? Would it be the correct diameter?
I remember reading about a leak and the house was flooded - does anyone remember? If you look at the long pipe on the right side of the tank, the midsection has not been painted, but there was paint below and above it. Could that have been where it was repaired after the leak, and possibly some of the left over or unused pipe were put n the bucket?
I remember reading about a leak and the house was flooded - does anyone remember? If you look at the long pipe on the right side of the tank, the midsection has not been painted, but there was paint below and above it. Could that have been where it was repaired after the leak, and possibly some of the left over or unused pipe were put n the bucket?
Try this: http://www.mathisfunforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=19141
Scroll down to post #4.
Otg, I erred. It was a small cylindrical shape against a sphere. Glad you caught that. You made me spit coke all over my computer with your comment on always having gas. :facepalm:
As to the amount/depth of dust accumulation, that would vary according to several things. I was always a neat freak and kept my water heater dusted off. Regardless, the water heater doesn't appear to be an old, out-dated model.
Are you thinking JonBenet was flung into a cast-iron pipe in that area?
I can't really see any reason for JonBenet to have been in the basement at that time of night after an extremely busy day or even on a normal day. Girls that age are afraid of basements, especially creepy secluded areas in basements. There has to be something that places her down there while she was alive, something that can be proved or at least reasonably expected and I don't see that yet but I'll listen.
That could be where the repair was made. It's hard to tell from the picture but I think that pipe goes into (or out of) the boiler. The water heater has a hot and cold on top, a pressure relief valve/overflow pipe, and a gas pipe. I don't see what a 5th pipe would be for, on a water heater. But it doesn't change anything in your question. Yes, the might have been repaired.
Darlene,
It's been so long ago but I think the leak was upstairs in the master suite. I want to say I read about it Death of Innocence but my memory is poor.
Nom de plume
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I've got it! It was the "intruder" in the boiler room with the water heater! :floorlaugh:
OTG you've got me....I see the same things everyone is mentioning, but apparently I'm missing what you're seeing. Fill us in!
OTG you've got me....I see the same things everyone is mentioning, but apparently I'm missing what you're seeing. Fill us in!
otg,
I've slept on this and here's all I can come up with. If certain things about the water heater are brand new and dust-free are you thinking that a piece or two of pipe were replaced to remove evidence involving JonBenet's death, i.e. evidence involving a possible weapon?
<still laughing over your gas :floorlaugh:>
I've slept on this and here's all I can come up with. If certain things about the water heater are brand new and dust-free are you thinking that a piece or two of pipe were replaced to remove evidence involving JonBenet's death, i.e. evidence involving a possible weapon?
<still laughing over your gas :floorlaugh:>
otg
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(bbm)
I wasnt thinking that, but Im only trying to match the depressed fracture to the shape and size of the object that caused it first. As you know, I am of the opinion (at this time) that the object hit her, but I cant yet completely discard the possibility that she hit the object. I know that you (and others) still think that is the more likely case, but we can figure out later (hopefully) if it is possible (or maybe even more likely) that she was flung into the object that would cause the same fractures in her skull. Just like you, Im trying to figure this thing out as we go. We may not always agree on everything, but I do think were coming to a better understanding of what the evidence is telling us.
And I couldnt think about a cosh -- cos I never heard of one until you mentioned it. :waitasec: But I looked it up. I had never heard that word before.
BTW, lead piping goes back to the Roman Empire. It was used because it was soft and malleable -- it could be easily bent to fit where it was needed. The Latin word for lead is plumbum, which is why its symbol on the Periodic Table of Elements is Pb. And since it was the primary material used by the people who made the waterlines way-back-when, the builders who used plumbum came to be known as plumbers. I kid you not. And my own speculation is that they chose to call them plumbers because they didn't want to call them leaders. :dance:
And on that note, todays Tip of the Day will be: Nitrous oxide abuse is no laughing matter. :groucho:
(Get it? Laughing... Gas... Oh, well. G'night all.):nevermind:
I wasnt thinking that, but Im only trying to match the depressed fracture to the shape and size of the object that caused it first. As you know, I am of the opinion (at this time) that the object hit her, but I cant yet completely discard the possibility that she hit the object. I know that you (and others) still think that is the more likely case, but we can figure out later (hopefully) if it is possible (or maybe even more likely) that she was flung into the object that would cause the same fractures in her skull. Just like you, Im trying to figure this thing out as we go. We may not always agree on everything, but I do think were coming to a better understanding of what the evidence is telling us.
Anne, I think the original hellhole was first constructed after lead pipes were no longer being used. But even the iron pipe used today is pretty heavy.
And I couldnt think about a cosh -- cos I never heard of one until you mentioned it. :waitasec: But I looked it up. I had never heard that word before.
BTW, lead piping goes back to the Roman Empire. It was used because it was soft and malleable -- it could be easily bent to fit where it was needed. The Latin word for lead is plumbum, which is why its symbol on the Periodic Table of Elements is Pb. And since it was the primary material used by the people who made the waterlines way-back-when, the builders who used plumbum came to be known as plumbers. I kid you not. And my own speculation is that they chose to call them plumbers because they didn't want to call them leaders. :dance:
Ha! Clue. Hey, wait a minute. Werent two of the weapons in that game a rope and a lead pipe? Hmmmmmmmmmm....... Anne11: Are you still reading this?
No, that one didnt occur to me, BOESP. I dont think anyone (even JR with his millions) could get a plumber (see above) to come out in the middle of the night just after Christmas. And it would be even less likely that JR would ever even consider touching a plumbers tool... Uhhhhhh... wrench.
Hey, you brought yours up first (I only realized that I had never had electric).
And on that note, todays Tip of the Day will be: Nitrous oxide abuse is no laughing matter. :groucho:
(Get it? Laughing... Gas... Oh, well. G'night all.):nevermind:
:yourock:<snipped ... not sure if we're being respectful or not:angel
:laugh: And it would be even less likely that JR would ever even consider touching a plumbers tool... Uhhhhhh... wrench.
Hey, you brought yours up first (I only realized that I had never had electric).
And on that note, todays Tip of the Day will be: Nitrous oxide abuse is no laughing matter. :groucho:
(Get it? Laughing... Gas... Oh, well. G'night all.):nevermind:
midwest mama
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otg;9529900 said:
(snipped by me)
Yes, and your ability to apply so much logic to your posts is so admirable.
Probably not to repair or replace a leaking water heater, but how about grabbing one like this:
http://mobiledistributorsupply.com/.../ca4f303bc0fac7461b701f13f8b52ee8/P/W/PW8.jpg
out of the bucket near the boiler furnace, possibly left there by construction workers during the basement renovation, and used to "make sure she was dead", as JR opined in DOI??
(snipped by me)
Yes, and your ability to apply so much logic to your posts is so admirable.
Probably not to repair or replace a leaking water heater, but how about grabbing one like this:
http://mobiledistributorsupply.com/.../ca4f303bc0fac7461b701f13f8b52ee8/P/W/PW8.jpg
out of the bucket near the boiler furnace, possibly left there by construction workers during the basement renovation, and used to "make sure she was dead", as JR opined in DOI??
My old house always had a bucket near the hot water heater, the dehumidifier and the ac. Given that this is the basement, I wonder if one of those things was dripping or collecting condensate? My dehumidifier was in the basement and some part of that was always dripping- like 1 drop an hour- not enough to bother to fix but enough that put a bucket there.
Also, you are supposed to occasionally drain a little bit out of the hot water heater to check for sediment, though I doubt the Ramsey's worried about that.
Also, you are supposed to occasionally drain a little bit out of the hot water heater to check for sediment, though I doubt the Ramsey's worried about that.
anne11
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We've got a bucket near the water heater because it has a pressure release valve that seems to be over-reactive (rubbish french plumbing)
So the thinking is that JBR was thrown or hit against the piping, I wonder how much velocity would be needed for a head injury like that and again would there further injury say to her neck or in her brain ( coup -contre coup )
So the thinking is that JBR was thrown or hit against the piping, I wonder how much velocity would be needed for a head injury like that and again would there further injury say to her neck or in her brain ( coup -contre coup )
Other than the pipes to left of the boiler I cannot see anything to hand that could be used to whack JonBenet.
If Kolar's theory is correct and it all began in the breakfast bar, then something about the size of your average wine-bottle could have been used?
I'm not saying it must be a wine-bottle just some household object which is just as heavy and robust, and later when observed might raise no immediate suspicion.
The flashlight falls into this category, and if BR used it to stage an accident, via a head injury, then this might explain why it was wiped clean, including the batteries, he may have changed them for new ones, due to extended use in the basement.
Other than the touch dna on the pink barbie nightgown BR appears to have no link with the wine-cellar, does this suggest his non-involvement or alike the flashlight was evidence airbrushed from view?
.
If Kolar's theory is correct and it all began in the breakfast bar, then something about the size of your average wine-bottle could have been used?
I'm not saying it must be a wine-bottle just some household object which is just as heavy and robust, and later when observed might raise no immediate suspicion.
The flashlight falls into this category, and if BR used it to stage an accident, via a head injury, then this might explain why it was wiped clean, including the batteries, he may have changed them for new ones, due to extended use in the basement.
Other than the touch dna on the pink barbie nightgown BR appears to have no link with the wine-cellar, does this suggest his non-involvement or alike the flashlight was evidence airbrushed from view?
.
The garrotte makes sure she's dead. With the knot at the back tight and deep into the skin the garrotte does the job even if it started out as an accident. That would have been obvious to the killer(s) ? Maybe not.
Darlene733510
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I wish I could tell what is in that bucket. There is something hanging slightly over the edge of the bucket. Could it be a piece of elbow pipe? If BR saw someone hit JB, or he did it himself, she could have been hit with the curved pipe, using the longer section of it for a handle - just like a hammer.
midwest mama
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Sorry, I am not good with the picture posting thing, so bear with me. The photo I am trying to post here is Crime Scene photo #73, basement, which is the same area that otg posted previously, except his is free from the items shown in #73.
(Click on photo below to enlarge or go to URL)
http://crimeshots.com/csvent.jpg
I'm confused - is #73 from the first run through the house by detectives taking photos of the crime scene? In the one posted by otg, there is a red X and circling around the drip leg, and this piping looks to be tape wrapped also. If a replaced piece of pipe, which Darlene speculates hanging out of the bucket was also tape wrapped, would it account for less damage to the skull - no scalp wound? If #73 was taken before the items were cleared away to provide a picture of the piping leading to the water heater, it looks like those screens/windows could have been a deterrent for JB's head to have struck that piping that is attached to the water heater in the photo otg posted?