Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[RickshawFan]

He will most likely tell the therapists what they want to hear. He will leave prison vowing he’s a changed man while secretly looking for potential victims and internet access .

I believe your second sentence, but not the first. IMO Josh will not take even a pinky toe step in the direction of equating himself with "sex offender".

 

[RickshawFan]

He’s a pro at confessions and apologies. He apologized at church, to the press, and to the Holts. I’m sure there were many, many other times he had to confess/apologize in the context of IBLP. He confessed his past assaults to his wife before they wed. He knows the key phrases. He knows how express remorse in a limited way and shift accountability to some other person, entity, or philosophy.

But experienced professional therapists won't put up with any of that. They know exactly what's sincere and what isn't, their business is sex offenders (who, IME, do like Josh 24/7), and they won't be manipulated. This is what those prison therapists do. If you're not real, you get written up.

 

[Shamrock1]

If he had a few sessions with a prison consultant, he’d be well-prepped in what things a therapist needs from him. JMO.

 

[BeckyF]

But experienced professional therapists won't put up with any of that. They know exactly what's sincere and what isn't, their business is sex offenders (who, IME, do like Josh 24/7), and they won't be manipulated. This is what those prison therapists do. If you're not real, you get written up.

How do you know this? Do you have a link where it states a person gets ‘written’ up for not being sincere or what prison therapists actually do?

 

[RickshawFan]

How do you know this? Do you have a link where it states a person gets ‘written’ up for not being sincere or what prison therapists actually do?

The relevant document is this:

https://www.bop.gov/policy/progstat/5324_010.pdf

This document spells out the function requirements for every member of SOMP staff, including the director, psychologists, desk staff....


SOMP programs are voluntary. Assessment takes place in interview upon entry to BOP:

• An overview of the purpose of SOMP and a review of specific SOMP components.
• A review of the inmate’s offense history on SENTRY to determine whether the inmate
  appears to pose significant risk for sexual recidivism, warranting an Initial Risk Assessment,
  or whether specialized correctional management services are required.
• A screening to determine the inmate’s treatment needs, based upon a review of clinical and
  risk data.
• An explanation of available treatment programs, and encouragement of voluntary treatment
  participation.
• An assessment of the inmate’s interest in volunteering to participate in the SOTP-R or SOTP-
  NR.
• An explanation of risk-relevant behaviors that may warrant a Correctional Management Plan.

pp. 19 et seq. https://www.bop.gov/policy/progstat/5324_010.pdf

1. 1. Expulsion. Inmates may be expelled by the SOMP Coordinator for disruptive behavior or unsatisfactory progress in treatment. Ordinarily, inmates must be given at least one attempt at a formal intervention before expulsion from treatment.
      (1) Intervention. To conduct an intervention, treatment staff:
   2. ■ Meet with the inmate to discuss his/her behavior or lack of progress.
   P5324.10 2/15/2013 19
   
   • Assign the treatment intervention(s) chosen to reduce or eliminate the behavior, or to improve progress.
   • Warn the inmate of the consequences of failure to alter his/her behavior.
   • Properly document in PDS the meeting and treatment intervention(s) assigned.
   • Properly document in PDS changes to the inmate’s Treatment Plan, and ensure that both staff
     and the inmate sign the amended Treatment Plan.
   • When appropriate, require the inmate to discuss his/her targeted behavior in a treatment
     group or with the treatment community.

 

[RickshawFan]

If he had a few sessions with a prison consultant, he’d be well-prepped in what things a therapist needs from him. JMO.

Do you mean SOMP psychologists can be manipulated?
Sex offenders are notoriously manipulative.If you are a psychologist running groups for sex offenders as a core duty, you precisely expect these behaviors. It's the key theme of sex offender groups and treatment.
IMO Josh Duggar is garden variety manipulative sex offender: he is unlikely to be able to get away with something a sex offender treatment psychologist hasn't seen hundreds of times before. As we experienced in trial, Josh has a very difficult time coming up with convincing lies.

 

[jakat]

Josh Duggar looks scruffy and unkempt in prison, new photo shows

New photo shows Josh Duggar, 34, sipping from a mug and mingling with other inmates, as he serves his 12.5-year sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Seagoville, Texas

www.dailymail.co.uk

​

 

[mickey2942]

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainme...blames-co-worker-child-*advertiser censored*/

UPDATE: Details revealed in Josh Duggar appeal brief

On October 3, Joshua Duggar’s defense team filed an appeal brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit.

www.nwahomepage.com

(Added additional link about appeal)
We knew this was coming, throw anyone under the bus. I am trying to figure out why this didn't happen at the trial though.

 

[meanmaryjean]

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainme...blames-co-worker-child-*advertiser censored*/

UPDATE: Details revealed in Josh Duggar appeal brief

On October 3, Joshua Duggar’s defense team filed an appeal brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit.

www.nwahomepage.com

(Added additional link about appeal)
We knew this was coming, throw anyone under the bus. I am trying to figure out why this didn't happen at the trial though.

Because he NEVER thought God would let him be found guilty?

 

[Berlin Dave]

Because he NEVER thought God would let him be found guilty?

I have always sort of wondered why Anna keeps him around. He must be really, really good at something???

 

[mickey2942]

I actually think that Josh's attorney was playing a long game during the trial, he probably knew that the case was a slam dunk loser. And since Josh wouldn't take a plea deal, the best case scenario was to get enough to scrape together for an appeal and possibly another trial in front of a more sympathetic judge. (Federal Court judges are appointed, this judge was appointed by President Obama).

Timothy L. Brooks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think that his attorney wants a lot of the judge's decisions reviewed.

Although, I don't find the statements credible. And a person who views extreme child *advertiser censored* that Josh Duggar had in his possession is not a person who comes across as "sympathetic". I have no doubt about his guilt.

 

[MsMarple]

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainme...blames-co-worker-child-*advertiser censored*/

UPDATE: Details revealed in Josh Duggar appeal brief

On October 3, Joshua Duggar’s defense team filed an appeal brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit.

www.nwahomepage.com

(Added additional link about appeal)
We knew this was coming, throw anyone under the bus. I am trying to figure out why this didn't happen at the trial though.

From the link, my bolding:

The defense filing continues by saying that “during the government’s entire pre-indictment investigation, agents did not speak with Caleb Williams or investigate him as a potential perpetrator, analyze any of Williams’ devices, or consider that Williams previously worked at Wholesale Motorcars, regularly used the only device in this case that had child *advertiser censored* on it, was tech savvy, and sent Duggar a text message on May 7, 2019 offering to ‘watch the lot’ during the following week despite the crimes in this case allegedly being committed between May 14, 2019 and May 16, 2019.”

The defense presented no evidence during the trial that Williams was present at the car lot on the dates when illegal child sexual assault material (CSAM) was downloaded on the HP desktop computer in the car lot’s office, and the court ordered that he would only be allowed to testify as a witness if he had “knowledge or recollection of being present on the car lot on or about May 13 through May 16.”

The defense acknowledges that “it chose not to call Caleb Williams for the very limited purpose that the Court would allow.”

From the Appeal Brief:

The district court violated Duggar’s constitutional right to present a complete defense by effectively precluding him from calling Caleb Williams as a witness and, if necessary, impeaching him with his prior felony sex crime conviction. On de novo review, this Court should reverse Duggar’s conviction, grant him a new trial, and permit him the opportunity to fully question Williams and, if necessary, to impeach him with his prior conviction.
JOSH DUGGAR APPEAL BRIEF, OCTOBER 3

I don't understand the logic here. Maybe one of our attorneys could explain?

 

[Friday Fan]

I have always sort of wondered why Anna keeps him around. He must be really, really good at something???

It's not him. It's the "family package". I believe her parents are not capable of caring for all of her kids, so she's at the Duggar compound

 

[Laughing]

It's not him. It's the "family package". I believe her parents are not capable of caring for all of her kids, so she's at the Duggar compound

It's theoretically possible that she is unaware that here in 2022, she actually has a choice. Perhaps.

As long as the convict remains incarcerated, well, that's what we're discussing here.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[jessarox]

I have always sort of wondered why Anna keeps him around. He must be really, really good at something???

Nah, it's because she has no high school diploma, no work experience whatsoever, and 7 children. She would have a hard time actually taking care of the kids on her own so she sticks around because Josh's dad will make sure the kids are taken care of. Her parents would not be supportive of a divorce due to their religion so she would truly be on her own if she decided to leave.

 

[Laughing]

Nah, it's because she has no high school diploma, no work experience whatsoever, and 7 children. She would have a hard time actually taking care of the kids on her own so she sticks around because Josh's dad will make sure the kids are taken care of. Her parents would not be supportive of a divorce due to their religion so she would truly be on her own if she decided to leave.

She doesn't know that imho many average Americans would help her find a place to live & fill in the gaps that state & federal programs don't cover & see that she eventually can stand on her own 2 feet, and so can her kids....


jmho ymmv lrr

 

[mickey2942]

Josh Duggar looks scruffy and unkempt in prison, new photo shows

New photo shows Josh Duggar, 34, sipping from a mug and mingling with other inmates, as he serves his 12.5-year sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Seagoville, Texas

www.dailymail.co.uk

I find this interesting. Someone snapped a picture of Josh in the prison. Wonder how that was accomplished. Sounds like he is not making friends or integrating very well in his new space. Already lost a cush job for annoying other inmates.

That is one thing I have noticed about kids who were homeschooled, lack of social skills, in making friends with folks. And an inability to make friends in prison is not good. He has to find a peer group, that becomes his network, he watches their back, they watch his...

An inability to find a peer group, unless he gets in with the losers and misfits. That is usually the pedo crowd. He will fit right in.

 

[ColyH]

Josh Duggar looks scruffy and unkempt in prison, new photo shows

New photo shows Josh Duggar, 34, sipping from a mug and mingling with other inmates, as he serves his 12.5-year sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Seagoville, Texas

www.dailymail.co.uk

I find this interesting. Someone snapped a picture of Josh in the prison. Wonder how that was accomplished. Sounds like he is not making friends or integrating very well in his new space. Already lost a cush job for annoying other inmates.

That is one thing I have noticed about kids who were homeschooled, lack of social skills, in making friends with folks. And an inability to make friends in prison is not good. He has to find a peer group, that becomes his network, he watches their back, they watch his...

An inability to find a peer group, unless he gets in with the losers and misfits. That is usually the pedo crowd. He will fit right in.

I see what your saying about home schooled kids but even home schooled kids have interaction with their neighbors and can learn social skills. The problem with Josh wasn't that he was home schooled but his parents kept him and his siblings isolated from other families other than those families involved with the Quiverfull Movement.

 

[Shamrock1]

The problem isn’t homeschooling. The problem is how THEY were homeschooled and raised.

With that many kids, I imagine no one ever had a playdate - logistically, it’d be impossible to drop a dozen kids at a dozen different individual playdates every week. Modern-day homeschoolers often have busy schedules with ample opportunities for kids to form bonds with other kids and other adults (including mandated reporters): music lessons, co-ops, sports teams, speech therapy, library events, etc. These kids did not. For most homeschoolers, the day’s work takes 2-4 hours, depending on age. That leaves a LOT of time for pursuing individual interests. Unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like these kids were permitted to pursue anything outside the family home.

As an aside, all states have a way to report a concern that a child is being educationally neglected - typically a hotline number buried in the state’s website. (I homeschool most of mine, if it matters).

 

[meanmaryjean]

The problem isn’t homeschooling. The problem is how THEY were homeschooled and raised.

With that many kids, I imagine no one ever had a playdate - logistically, it’d be impossible to drop a dozen kids at a dozen different individual playdates every week. Modern-day homeschoolers often have busy schedules with ample opportunities for kids to form bonds with other kids and other adults (including mandated reporters): music lessons, co-ops, sports teams, speech therapy, library events, etc. These kids did not. For most homeschoolers, the day’s work takes 2-4 hours, depending on age. That leaves a LOT of time for pursuing individual interests. Unfortunately, it doesn’t sound like these kids were permitted to pursue anything outside the family home.

As an aside, all states have a way to report a concern that a child is being educationally neglected - typically a hotline number buried in the state’s website. (I homeschool most of mine, if it matters).

Thank you- and well said! I homeschooled my four for 25 years and they are all reasonably happy, well-adjusted and productive members of society who are NOT afraid to express an opinion or take action EVEN if that means an opinion or action contrary to what Mom or Dad's might be. And guess what- we don't shun, control finances or make decisions FOR them either. (Looking at you JimBob!)