KatieCoolady Holds 'Court' - The Dedicated KCL Thread

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It's my opinion that this jury FP did NOT have an open mind. We are seeing it now in his interviews. Maybe later on, some of the 8 JURORS THAT VOTED FOR DEATH with speak.

Yes, I wouldn't mind hearing from a representative of the two-thirds majority who were shut down by their foreman but still had the courage of their convictions to go on record with their fact-based determinations. But, if they don't want to speak until after the completion of the trial or never, that's cool, too.
 
which I find disturbing in a journalist for what I believe is the "paper of record" for AZ's largest city. How does the Republic allow a "reporter" to have demonstrable views on the news and players? It's one thing if he was an Opinion or Editorial page writer but he purports to present the "news".

Some of his "news" articles contain barely concealed venom which he allows to spill over into basically becoming a defense mouthpiece who uses his media presence to trash the victim seemingly just because it's a way to "hate on" Juan Martinez. I find it pretty despicable because I don't think Kiefer honestly cares about Arias or Travis Alexander and his family-he just seems motivated by hate for Martinez. I find that really odd.

The article I quote below just floored me. As did the ones where he champions poor Alyce who he said, "held her own against Prosecutor Juan Martinez" and another where he went in search of support for Samuels diagnosis of poor Jodi's PTSD and others where he repeats the "death threats" against defense witnesses and attorneys. He's sure not like any real journalists I ever met.

Prosecutor Juan Martinez dances on the edge of outrage in the courtroom, and his TV following loves it.

But on Thursday it came back to haunt him when defense attorneys for accused killer Jodi Arias were able to introduce a string of emails -- over his repeated objections -- showing that victim Travis Alexander's close friends had tried to warn Arias that Alexander was an abusive womanizer.

And Arias' lead attorney, Kirk Nurmi, suggested that Martinez's love for the TV camera was lapsing into prosecutorial misconduct. At the close of the day Thursday, the jurors were called in one-by-one to be questioned on whether they saw Martinez signing autographs and posing for cameras outside the courthouse last week.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/28/arias-prosecutors-conduct-questioned/2029913/

Honestly my impressions are it has nothing to do with fame or fortune. In my own personal analysis based on many conversations with the same tenor, knowing one of his best friends is a DP appellate attorney and his strange over the top yet sneaky behavior during this trial is it primarily stems from a seething hatred of Juan Martinez and his methods as a prosecutor (which believe me he will tell you right off the tip of his tongue a catalog of horrible things JM has done throughout his career).
 
All that trial and they deliberate for 13 lousy hours? Thanks, judge heck of a job. What kind of a tinker toy verdict is that? A "Not unanimous" unanimous verdict, what where they sick of the lunch menu?

Wilmott and Nurmi are laughing their azzes off at this chump. You get a load of this guy? What does it take foreman? Who gets the DP in your book? This guy will never live this down, betcha.

I thinking quite the opposite. They (Wilmott & Nurmi) are probably lamenting, we almost had a hung jury, or how close we came to a hung jury. my opinion only.
 
Good morning all! Well I feel like my own "roving reporter" moments in the hall the day before the verdict may have stirred up some Inquiry esp w the public information officer who lets just say indicated to me there were some similar perceptions and concerns going on there. There was another media person who said "I'm glad to finally have someone to talk to about this- he's out of his mind" (well what this person called him over and over saying "I'm sorry it's just the best word "was a name Nancy Grace uses to refer to Dr. ****Samuels) and since Kiefer has some status as a local reporter for many yrs (he worked at New Times for many yrs before leaving disgruntled and going to the Republic) I think people sort of dont cross him. I sure felt that way. My friend Joi stepped in as he was spewing spitting fire about how this was never a death case to begin with, there was no pre med blah blah she tried to,say "but there is so much premeditation" and his bullying style of aggressiveness caused her to grab my hand and squeeze it in front of him. This was all IN the courtroom on a break spurred by me asking him if the jury would deliberate over the weekend. He was like a boiling volcano who once it popped all the brimstone came flying out. I am NOT the only person this occurred with. People were like wtf on this dude but you tend to back away from a pot boiling over.

But let me say this out loud. Of any person in that courtroom including the Alexanders who spewed THE MOST venom and vitriol against anyone , it was Michael Kiefer. And most of it directed at Juan Martinez. He had gotten so far off the rails he was trying to convince me that the gas can purchase and borrowing issue was perfectly normal for someone to do, "women dye their hair all the time on vacation", but the tone was like someone losing it talking about an ex they wanted to turn you against. He was clearly spewing this in the media section and the other reporter who I talked to for a LONG time that day about all this was saying how they always hoped Kiefer was sitting elsewhere so he wouldn't start up this crazy BS on them again. I'm gonna break confidentiality now and tell you he said to me on more than one occasion, "when this murder 2 conviction comes in I'm gonna walk right up to Juan Martinez and tell him to,shove it up his a$$". Verbatim.

I think the fact "his" M2 prediction wasn't satisfied he went rabid and we saw the staged DB interview, the leaked juror question which was later edited out (not before seen, recorded and discussed all over the net). What defense attorney wouldn't want a reporter on the outside to do their bidding? He went too far, his cockiness got out of control and I think there will be consequences. I think by the fact he's editing important stuff out he's being monitored. And people of influence are still watching.

It will be interesting to see what shenanigans he pulls between now and the re mitigation hearing. I do know but can't say more that we will be hearing from an alternate soon. I'd like to hear from ALL of them and of course more from my CEO.

Edited to add when I say roving reporter I mean I asked several media people what they thought about that leaked question being published. I just kept asking questions like "should we know the foreperson at this stage?"

Katie, I suggest you bring this to the attention of the Arizona Republic or whoever Keifer works for. To say, "when this murder 2 conviction comes in I'm gonna walk right up to Juan Martinez and tell him to,shove it up his a$$"." ---is NOT reporting on his part and unprofessional. Also you have to wonder if Brewer's words got to a juror via 'someone'.
 
Blushing---I'm glad you pulled that post--I'm sure it applied to JW after Thursday night as well.

I started my "lady edith" handle as a tribute to the Downton Abbey character, then tried to think of other Ediths I could honor. I used a picture of Edith Head next. Maybe next will be Edith Bunker. You are a sweetie.

May I humbly suggest Edith Piaf?

ETA Youtube link to Edith Piaf singing La Vie En Rose, used in the soundtrack for the film Bull Durham Inception meets Bull Durham - YouTube
 

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Katie, I suggest you bring this to the attention of the Arizona Republic or whoever Keifer works for. To say, "when this murder 2 conviction comes in I'm gonna walk right up to Juan Martinez and tell him to,shove it up his a$$"." ---is NOT reporting on his part and unprofessional. Also you have to wonder if Brewer's words got to a juror via 'someone'.

Thank you!
My sentiments exactly, this juror appears to be the new apologetic JA mouth piece on the heels of finding her guilty of M1 with cruelty?
If it does not make sense to us there is a reason!
 
Regarding:


By BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press
Updated 5:32 pm, Friday, May 24, 2013

PHOENIX (AP) — They were 12 ordinary citizens who didn't oppose the death penalty. But unlike spectators outside the courthouse who followed the case like a daytime soap opera and jumped to demand Jodi Arias' execution, the jurors faced a decision that was wrenching and real, with implications that could haunt them forever.

In an interview Friday, jury foreman William Zervakos provided a glimpse into the private deliberations, describing four women and eight men who struggled with the question: How heinous of a killing deserves a similar fate?

"The system we think is flawed in that sense because this was not a case of a Jeffrey Dahmer or Charles Manson," Zervakos told The Associated Press.

~Snipped~


Zervakos described a deliberations room full of tears and spinning moral compasses as each juror struggled to come to grips with their own beliefs about what factors — including Arias' young age at the time of the killing and her lack of criminal history — should cause them to show mercy and spare her life.

"You've got Travis Alexander's family devastated, that he was killed, that he was brutally killed. You've got Jodi Arias' family sitting in there, both families sitting and seeing these humiliating images and listening to unbelievably lurid private details of their lives, and you've got a woman whose life is over, too," Zervakos said. "I mean, who's winning in this situation? And we were stuck in the middle."

Read more:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/artic...ath-decision-unfair-4545378.php#ixzz2UMFjUzOZ




My two cents~


A RANT I WISH THESE JURORS COULD READ~
I think this foreman is an idiot---and a whiner. I am sorry but I do. I blame the laws in part for their failure to allow the prosecution to present ALL the facts of the case. The defense is allowed to present all manner of truly ridiculous pap in the name of "mitigation" of the defendant, not to mention the huge lies about Travis---NON EXISTENT slander that made up most of their case!

In the first place, Jodi was no kid when she killed Travis. She was in her late 20's. I'll bet if you looked at statistics, most murders are committed when killers are in their 20's and 30's. I STILL MAINTAIN THAT IF THIS WERE A MAN, THE DEATH PENALTY WOULD HAVE BEEN A NO BRAINER.

Mercy? Mercy? This jury really had misplaced sentiments, and have attributed to Jodi a level of humanity that SHE DOES NOT POSSESS.
Almost everyone of Travis' friends who met Jodi could sense that she was "not right", that she was "bad news" and many warned him----not one or two people, but many!
Some had reactions of her being "off" to downright "evil", but almost all said she was MANIPULATIVE.
This is a person who was bad news and exhibiting psychotic behavior for many years before Travis came into her life. She was a liar and a stalker long before she met him.

This jury was not shown in no uncertain terms that Travis was NOT abusive; that the few times he lost it with Jodi, he called her things because of HER ABUSE OF HIM! SHE was the stalker. SHE was the manipulator. She lied repeatedly, sneaked around and spied on him, slashed tires, went behind his back invading his bank info, emails, and phone calls. It was only AFTER she had done this to him over and over that he got hurt, angry and felt betrayed and used and called her on it! Sure, it would have been nice if the prosecution could have presented some more evidence for this that was precluded, but I 'got' it. I think most of us 'got' it from what did come out in court.

Sorry but these jurors failed. I think that most of this info was there if they bothered to look, but they let sympathy for Jodi blind them to WHAT SHE TRULY IS!

I wish---I hope that these jurors will now take the time to see all the interrogation tapes, the in-jail interviews, and hear Chris and Skye Hughes on the talk radio show tell the story of their friendship with Travis, their experiences with Jodi, and the emails they wrote.
I hope they will all take the time to see and read interviews with other men Jodi attempted to manipulate or use, with people she actually did confront and threaten, and with people who witnessed first hand her lies and a dark and soulless side of her.

Lack of criminal history? Just because Jodi didn't snap and kill someone before is hardly a reason for mercy for this monster. Even Jack the ripper had a 'first time'. Some people have NO conscience. They are not capable of empathy or mercy for anyone else. They live their entire lives using, manipulating, and lying to others to get what they want. Some people are just bad or evil through and through and they NEVER CHANGE. Jodi Arias is one of these people.

I don't think these jurors really listened to Dr. De Marte. If her testimony were not as censored as it was she probably could have really laid it on the line, but even so, she tried to get across these facts. She made it clear that Jodi doesn't have real emotions, and 'mirrors' what she sees in others. Her actions are often wildly inappropriate and always, always self-serving.

Jodi is a stone cold killer who does NOT deserve mercy. The factors mentioned by the foreman are ridiculous, and pale in comparison to her heinous actions---and some of those jurors couldn't SEE THAT?!
UGH. I am disgusted with them. They say they didn't find her believable, and yet THEY CHOSE (SOME OF THEM) TO BELIEVE SOME OF HER LIES, while dismissing others. They let emotion for the WRONG person get in the way, as they looked through rose colored glasses at someone who THEY CONVINCED THEMSELVES was a woman possibly able to be 'rehabilitated'. This guy says the system was flawed, because he felt he was in the middle between a rock and hard place. Oh boo hoo---NO WAY. YOU didn't really look at all the facts, Mr. Foreman (and the other jurors who feel this way). You had a JOB to do. You weren't supposed to be doing that at that point in the first place! The verdict and cruelty factors had already been ajudictated. YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO WEIGH HER 'MITIGATING FACTORS' AGAINST HER VICIOUS PRE-MEDITATED SLAUGHTER OF A MAN---(A MAN SHE HAD BEEN EMOTIONALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY TERRORIZING AND SEXUALLY MANIPULATING!)

I am more than sick at the NON-decision that they have come to. I am sickened at some of their rationales. I hope with all my heart that they DO seek out ALL the facts with regard to Jodi and Travis, and I hope that they are truly, truly horrified by her when they do.

Like your post immensely, but just a note, remember not to include all jurors. Remember the EIGHT!!! One lady it is reported was crying and mouthed the words I'm sorry to the Alexander family. moo
 
Did MK hide behind another reporter (if so, which one) during Arias' round of interviews? I don't know what he looks like, he's not the one referring to the killer as a 'sex-kitten', (twice) is he? disgusting.
Convict DB, ALV, that reporter,(leaks) JA family, DT and others all in co-hoots. Probably got info and tapes released via freedom of information act and then cried foul. I hope all are exposed....and that creep that runs occupy hln. omg, the foul things he says about Alexander fund and friends...not a word about Jodi collecting money/selling art. Jason somebody.
 
Regarding:

By BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press
Updated 5:32 pm, Friday, May 24, 2013

PHOENIX (AP) — They were 12 ordinary citizens who didn't oppose the death penalty. But unlike spectators outside the courthouse who followed the case like a daytime soap opera and jumped to demand Jodi Arias' execution, the jurors faced a decision that was wrenching and real, with implications that could haunt them forever.

In an interview Friday, jury foreman William Zervakos provided a glimpse into the private deliberations, describing four women and eight men who struggled with the question: How heinous of a killing deserves a similar fate?

"The system we think is flawed in that sense because this was not a case of a Jeffrey Dahmer or Charles Manson," Zervakos told The Associated Press.

~Snipped~


Zervakos described a deliberations room full of tears and spinning moral compasses as each juror struggled to come to grips with their own beliefs about what factors — including Arias' young age at the time of the killing and her lack of criminal history — should cause them to show mercy and spare her life.

"You've got Travis Alexander's family devastated, that he was killed, that he was brutally killed. You've got Jodi Arias' family sitting in there, both families sitting and seeing these humiliating images and listening to unbelievably lurid private details of their lives, and you've got a woman whose life is over, too," Zervakos said. "I mean, who's winning in this situation? And we were stuck in the middle."




My two cents:

A RANT I WISH THESE JURORS COULD READ~
I think this foreman is an idiot---and a whiner. I am sorry but I do. I blame the laws in part for their failure to allow the prosecution to present ALL the facts of the case. The defense is allowed to present all manner of truly ridiculous pap in the name of "mitigation" of the defendant, not to mention the huge lies about Travis---NON EXISTENT slander that made up most of their case!

In the first place, Jodi was no kid when she killed Travis. She was in her late 20's. I'll bet if you looked at statistics, most murders are committed when killers are in their 20's and 30's. I STILL MAINTAIN THAT IF THIS WERE A MAN, THE DEATH PENALTY WOULD HAVE BEEN A NO BRAINER.

Mercy? Mercy? This jury really had misplaced sentiments, and have attributed to Jodi a level of humanity that SHE DOES NOT POSSESS.
Almost everyone of Travis' friends who met Jodi could sense that she was "not right", that she was "bad news" and many warned him----not one or two people, but many!
Some had reactions of her being "off" to downright "evil", but almost all said she was MANIPULATIVE.
This is a person who was bad news and exhibiting psychotic behavior for many years before Travis came into her life. She was a liar and a stalker long before she met him.

This jury was not shown in no uncertain terms that Travis was NOT abusive; that the few times he lost it with Jodi, he called her things because of HER ABUSE OF HIM! SHE was the stalker. SHE was the manipulator. She lied repeatedly, sneaked around and spied on him, slashed tires, went behind his back invading his bank info, emails, and phone calls. It was only AFTER she had done this to him over and over that he got hurt, angry and felt betrayed and used and called her on it! Sure, it would have been nice if the prosecution could have presented some more evidence for this that was precluded, but I 'got' it. I think most of us 'got' it from what did come out in court.

Sorry but these jurors failed. I think that most of this info was there if they bothered to look, but they let sympathy for Jodi blind them to WHAT SHE TRULY IS!

I wish---I hope that these jurors will now take the time to see all the interrogation tapes, the in-jail interviews, and hear Chris and Skye Hughes on the talk radio show tell the story of their friendship with Travis, their experiences with Jodi, and the emails they wrote.
I hope they will all take the time to see and read interviews with other men Jodi attempted to manipulate or use, with people she actually did confront and threaten, and with people who witnessed first hand her lies and a dark and soulless side of her.

Lack of criminal history? Just because Jodi didn't snap and kill someone before is hardly a reason for mercy for this monster. Even Jack the ripper had a 'first time'. Some people have NO conscience. They are not capable of empathy or mercy for anyone else. They live their entire lives using, manipulating, and lying to others to get what they want. Some people are just bad or evil through and through and they NEVER CHANGE. Jodi Arias is one of these people.

I don't think these jurors really listened to Dr. De Marte. If her testimony were not as censored as it was she probably could have really laid it on the line, but even so, she tried to get across these facts. She made it clear that Jodi doesn't have real emotions, and 'mirrors' what she sees in others. Her actions are often wildly inappropriate and always, always self-serving.

Jodi is a stone cold killer who does NOT deserve mercy. The factors mentioned by the foreman are ridiculous, and pale in comparison to her heinous actions---and some of those jurors couldn't SEE THAT?!
UGH. I am disgusted with them. They say they didn't find her believable, and yet THEY CHOSE (SOME OF THEM) TO BELIEVE SOME OF HER LIES, while dismissing others. They let emotion for the WRONG person get in the way, as they looked through rose colored glasses at someone who THEY CONVINCED THEMSELVES was a woman possibly able to be 'rehabilitated'. This guy says the system was flawed, because he felt he was in the middle between a rock and hard place. Oh boo hoo---NO WAY. YOU didn't really look at all the facts, Mr. Foreman (and the other jurors who feel this way). You had a JOB to do. You weren't supposed to be doing that at that point in the first place! The verdict and cruelty factors had already been ajudictated. YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO WEIGH HER 'MITIGATING FACTORS' AGAINST HER VICIOUS PRE-MEDITATED SLAUGHTER OF A MAN---(A MAN SHE HAD BEEN EMOTIONALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY TERRORIZING AND SEXUALLY MANIPULATING!)

I am more than sick at the NON-decision that they have come to. I am sickened at some of their rationales. I hope with all my heart that they DO seek out ALL the facts with regard to Jodi and Travis, and I hope that they are truly, truly horrified by her when they do.

Thank You :goodpost::clap::clap::clap::clap: IMO MOO
 
Did MK hide behind another reporter (if so, which one) during Arias' round of interviews? I don't know what he looks like, he's not the one referring to the killer as a 'sex-kitten', (twice) is he? disgusting.
Convict DB, ALV, that reporter,(leaks) JA family, DT and others all in co-hoots. Probably got info and tapes released via freedom of information act and then cried foul. I hope all are exposed....and that creep that runs occupy hln. omg, the foul things he says about Alexander fund and friends...not a word about Jodi collecting money/selling art. Jason somebody.

No, that's Mark Curtis. Kiefer was there for that interview, though, and can be heard in the background asking some equally enraging questions.
 
The problem is if the 8 jurors come forward the 4 who hung the jury will also be revealed --- if that's a problem -- we may just be stuck with the foreman, who thankfully, appears to have covered most of the bases (media outlets).

There's just something more here than meets the eye. Why would they all, including the alternates, agree not to reveal "the four"? I don't even know how the alternates would know the vote unless they all shared it on the bus going out. But, why not "the eight"? How would any of them know that the ones to protect would be the "life" votes? Wouldn't common sense tell you that the harder decision and the one most people would want to hold closer to the vest for the rest of their lives would be voting yes to the death penalty? This whole scenario boggles the mind......
 
Gauntlet shared this with us on the other thread, Will make everyone feel a bit better. :)

J No 17, an alternate is speaking out: https://twitter.com/tarakelley320

More tweets

You don't need Twitter to read:

To hWild:
I saw my nickname as the manicurist but i hate to say i have no nails lol! I was just bored and staying awake! Alt juror 17

I asked her,"after all the lies you told,why should we believe u now?"I wanted her to know she wasn't fooling me!!

I was an alternate in this trial and I am disgusted and outraged with the interviews our "foreman" has done! He needs to stop!

definitely not happy with what is being said! Keep an eye out, there will be other jurors talking soon!!

there will be other jurors coming out and speaking, including myself! We had all agreed to wait until next week to interview!

him and I were together from day 1 of jury selections! I'm definitely disgusted and upset in the awful things he is saying!

In response to being asked why the foreman spoke out soooner:
@jdemboyz he did agree to it! We all thought it was best to just take the wknd to relax! We've been at this so long we wanted a break!

As an alt on this trial, I am very disgusted with what our "foreman" has said! Please know that we didn't all feel this way!!! #jodiarias

I was an alt in this trial and I am devastated by the outcome! I have been in touch with his sister and friends! Keep praying!

I loved Juan!! He was sooo passionate for Travis and his family! He was Travis's voice! I understood!

To Chris: @cshughes was nice meeting you today!! This picture is too funny!

yes I will be interviewing Tuesday and will let u know with who once I get the okay!!!

I hate to say this but I think wilmott did just enough to put doubt in jurors minds!Not mine but I do think that possibly happened

It's so crazy how many people watched! I've been able to talk to his friends and sister and I love them all!!!

Being asked about interviews: @angel7878 I have....not surprised by them honestly! Just confirms she is a disgusting person! She will continue to bash Travis's name:/

@jdemboyz awe thank u! I asked her ALOT of questions! Idk why he broke it...maybe so he could be the first?! It's a shame really!

When asked at what point did you know she was not being truthful?
in opening statements when we heard all the stories!Then it was confirmed when she took the stand! Everything she said was a lie!
 
forgive me if that has been posted already, but this is eggtree news. Read eggy's take on the verdict then go to the comments. There is a video (about 4th comment down) that is called Jodi Arias Rose colored glasses. It is by an asst. DOC warden ( I am not sure if he is currently one or not) Anywayhttp://eggtreenews.wordpress.com/ it is about conditions where she is going. Very worth listening too
 
Ohhh.... "Ponytail"...... my heart sank when they chose your number as an alternate. Much in the same way as when we lost "Tricolor" (#5), "CEO" (#8) and "Poquito" (#11). What kind, intelligent, and thoughtful words!!
 
I fell in love with Lady Edith when Downton Abbey was still on. :floorlaugh:

I was at an event recently, I will just classify it as a conservative crowd - NO not in a politic sense ....

A very nicenlady came up to me, commented that I looked like the actress who plays Lady Mary. We kibitz or 'conversated' about DA. I contemporaneously ended the topic with " well Lady Mary and I do have something in common, we have both ended up with Turks in our bed."

ttfn
 
Ohhh.... "Ponytail"...... my heart sank when they chose your number as an alternate. Much in the same way as when we lost "Tricolor" (#5), "CEO" (#8) and "Poquito" (#11). What kind, intelligent, and thoughtful words!!

https://twitter.com/tarakelley320

yes she is pretty upset, and she has other jurors tweeting her the same way, they made a deal that no on would talk to the press until after memorial day and he promptly went home and broke the deal - they are all pretty shocked - especially cuz she said what he is saying in no represents what the jury was thinking -

all i can said is thank you gos we got an M! conviction and a cruelty conviction!!!!
 
No, in my days in the courtroom he NEVER took notes. Sat with his arms crossed most of the time, his chair turned slightly toward the witness.

The ONLY note I have about him in all the notes I took was that during Nurmi's cross of Deanna Reid, while asking her about her mission, he and Paul Rudd looked bored and sat with their heads in their hands.

It was a surprise to me, a big one, that he was foreman. I would not have predicted that. He certainly never seemed as engaged as many of the others.

I support this juror's right to vote his convictions. I do not support his statements about the victim in this case, nor the murderer he voted to convict. It gives me great pause that he is so willing to tell the world what he thinks of all the players in this case, yet unwilling to reveal his vote.

I just watched more of the foreman's interview...which I believe revealed his vote and a lot of his personality. I believe he voted against the DP.
Further, he said the jurors were mere mortals, not lawyers and they shouldnt have to make this decision. He cited The Manson case.

I pray we NEVER get to the state that a persons fate is decided on by just lawyers. He appears, at least to me, to be someone who would possibly railroad the others with his views.

I couldn't vote for the DP, because I couldn't take someone's life, I don't think. But the murder of Travis Alexander was every bit as heinous and cruel as the Manson killings! I remember that case well and there were a group of sick killers who invaded someone's home and went on a killing rampage. Just tell me how Jodi was different from Manson? She too planned a slaughter.

The foreman said she was just a "normal" young girl until she met TA. How sick and twisted is the foreman's mind to make statements like this?
 
Like your post immensely, but just a note, remember not to include all jurors. Remember the EIGHT!!! One lady it is reported was crying and mouthed the words I'm sorry to the Alexander family. moo

Agree:seeya:
 
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