KC defense team.What now?

[Chilly Willy]

You're speculating that Caylee was murdered.

It's unlikely that she wrapped duct tape around her own mouth, crawled inside two bags, and placed herself in the woods. I've believed all along that the death was an accident, but if it's true that Caylee's mouth was duct-taped, that blows the accident theory right out of the water, IMO.

 

[Devon]

It's unlikely that she wrapped duct tape around her own mouth, crawled inside two bags, and placed herself in the woods. I've believed all along that the death was an accident, but if it's true that Caylee's mouth was duct-taped, that blows the accident theory right out of the water, IMO.

Bolded by me

I think that would depend on when, and why, the duct tape was used.

 

[kline]

You're speculating that Caylee was murdered.

Sorry.I think the fact that Caylee was murdered is way beyond 'speculation'.
Generally accident victims dont end up ductaped inside plastic bags and dumped in the brush to decompose like roadkill .
Most people who were accidentally responsible for someones death even involuntary manslaughter wouldnt run out and have 'A beautiful life' tattoed and then proceed to party like a rock star shaking it at the Club like a pole dancer.
Especially if the victim of said 'accident' was their three year old child.
I dont think 'Speculation' covers it.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Bolded by me

I think that would depend on when, and why, the duct tape was used.

I've tried, and I can't come up with one logical reason why someone would place duct tape over the mouth of a dead child.

 

[Pedrosmom]

By the time this trial goes to court, it is possible the civil suit filed by the real ZG could be over. Testimony there could be presented as possible evidence, too...couldn't it?

That would be a tough one. Defense could stipulate that this ZFG wasn't the one alleged by Casey (as they are doing now). The only evidence that could come out of that trial is testimony from ZFG herself that it is not her, good for prosecution, as we already know that Casey will testify that it is not her.

The murder, per se, evidence won't be part of that trial. I'd be shocked if the civil action is tried before the criminal case.

 

[LaLaw2000]

You're speculating that Caylee was murdered.

Well? Caylee IS dead. I believe she WAS murdered and by Casey. Period.

 

[Pedrosmom]

The opportunity for the cause of death to be "accidental" ended within 5 minutes of her death when her mother failed to call 911. It was further emphasized as murder when her mother failed to call authorities PERIOD. Never. She never reported her missing. Cindy did. She just spent the better part of a month living the life of Riley, sans Caylee.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Because the facts and evidence we know of do not support premeditation. The only way a person can conclude that Caylee was a victim of a premeditated murder is if a prson speculates, which jurors aare forbidden to do.

As for you not likling the Zanny story, that is not evidence of premeditation.

Wudge, with all due respect, how do you know what evidence LE has that we have not seen or know about yet? I honestly and sincerely think that some of what we have seen does point toward premeditation. Now YOU are using the word murder and in another post tell me I am speculating when I say it. ..........

I am not a juror and can speculate as this is a forum where we can post our opinions as well as speculations. You are making this into a courtroom where rules apply and no speculation is allowed. ......

 

[LaLaw2000]

Sorry.I think the fact that Caylee was murdered is way beyond 'speculation'.
Generally accident victims dont end up ductaped inside plastic bags and dumped in the brush to decompose like roadkill .
Most people who were accidentally responsible for someones death even involuntary manslaughter wouldnt run out and have 'A beautiful life' tattoed and then proceed to party like a rock star shaking it at the Club like a pole dancer.
Especially if the victim of said 'accident' was their three year old child.
I dont think 'Speculation' covers it.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Kat]

I have no doubt in my mind that KC is responsible for Caylee's death. I want KC to have a fair trial.

I want her convicted for the crime she commited whatever that may be, because I, and only in my own opinion, am not sure what lead up to Caylee's death.

I do like to read this thread because I want to see what the defense may or may not do. Again, I will say that I want KC to have a fair trial so that way when she is convicted ~ the conviction stands.

 

[Pedrosmom]

One thing is for sure, the location and placement of the body is not supportive of a planned and deliberated murder.

Although the duct tape is a little bit of a problem, huh?

 

[strach304]

The ME stated homicide as the cause of death. The act of one person killing another, doesn't have to be intentional. Criminal homicide being deliberate.

I do not for one minute think Caylee's location is indicative of Casey's innocence.Just the opposite imo. It matches up too well with everything else we have seen Casey do and say. Plain and simple she is a head case.

 

[Wudge]

Wudge, with all due respect, how do you know what evidence LE has that we have not seen or know about yet? I honestly and sincerely think that some of what we have seen does point toward premeditation. Now YOU are using the word murder and in another post tell me I am speculating when I say it. ..........

I am not a juror and can speculate as this is a forum where we can post our opinions as well as speculations. You are making this into a courtroom where rules apply and no speculation is allowed. ......

As regards sufficient known evidence that proves the premeditated murder charge, no one, anywhere, has been able to provide the evidence that would support premises necessary to conclude Caylee died from a premeditated murder.

Knowingly or unknowingly, posters are relying on speculation, not sufficient evidence, to conclude Casey murdered Caylee.

You can speculate. Others can speculate. I can point that out.

 

[Wudge]

Bolded by me

I think that would depend on when, and why, the duct tape was used.

Correct.

 

[Wudge]

Although the duct tape is a little bit of a problem, huh?

I won't speculate that the tape was used to murder Caylee.

 

[Kat]

Has there been confirmation from LE that there was tape? I know I'm being a nudge. I know the ME denied to comment on the findings. Bolding by me because I know I am...

 

[ecs5298]

Knowingly or unknowingly, posters are relying on speculation, not sufficient evidence, to conclude Casey murdered Caylee.

We're speculating because we don't have all the information. It's not important for us to have enough evidence to conclude Casey murdered Caylee, it is important that the prosecution has it though. We are only seeing what we've been given to see, which I'm sure is only a small portion of the evidence that the prosecution has. Which is in sharp contrast to what the defense team has given us, which is just a bunch of lies and spin.

While it may not hold up in a court of law, I personally subscribe to the notion that if if looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, leaves web prints in duck tape like a duck, has the smell of a decomposing duck in it's trunk, it's beyond a reasonable doubt that it's a duck.

 

[coco puff]

I agree.
(Unless the prosecution has a bunch of evidence in store that we don't know about yet.)
(I wouldn't say educated jurors necessarily, but logical jurors.) For more logical jurors, I would think so much doubt would remain at this point, since KC was living with so many people, had Caylee around so many people, at the various apartments and other places, and no forensics done, no cadaver dogs or luminol or anything else done at any of these apartments where they'd been staying, in any of these people's cars, etc. (Of course these paramours, many roommates, and friends are all presumed innocent, but too much has not been ruled out.)
Also, (so far) it hasn't been shown that she was the only person with access to either the home computer or the car.
The location and style of the disposal of the body also suggests a different perpetrator. If KC were the perp, it seems unlikely that she would leave the body right there in their own neighborhood, so near the street, and most of all, with duct tape still around the mouth, forever ending any chance of claiming it was an accident. MOO.

My bold:

KC has made so many amazingly stupid moves in this case. You say if KC were the perp, why would she dump the body so close to home and use duct tape. These are things we know she DID do:

1, Road around with the body in the back of her car for at least two days. Brilliant!
2. Placed the body in the back yard at some point! Dogs don't lie
3. borrowed a shovel from a neighbor when we know she can break into the shed. come on KC, you are smarter than that, aren't you??
4. abandoned the car because it was out of gas. we all know she knows her way around gas cans. amazing
5. lie to LE's face up until the point where she is actually in the hollway of her former imployment. unbelievable
6. Signed a stolen check with her own name. Bold to say the least, stupid at best
7. said her daugter called her from a private number and was immediately disconnected!! now how did she know that if it was a private number. Does this girl have a clue that phone records are available??

She is not smart at all. The dumping of the body was done in haste because she was about to be caught by her dad so had to get rid of it. The duct tape was to silence Caylee, thinking she would remove it later, but probably got distracted by a cute little workout bra at target. imo

 

[BonKai]

We're speculating because we don't have all the information. It's not important for us to have enough evidence to conclude Casey murdered Caylee, it is important that the prosecution has it though. We are only seeing what we've been given to see, which I'm sure is only a small portion of the evidence that the prosecution has. Which is in sharp contrast to what the defense team has given us, which is just a bunch of lies and spin.

While it may not hold up in a court of law, I personally subscribe to the notion that if if looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, leaves web prints in duck tape like a duck, has the smell of a decomposing duck in it's trunk, it's beyond a reasonable doubt that it's a duck.

Well said! :clap:

 

[WmHersey]

Interesting arguments. Remember that they brought charges of murder against Casey after they presented the case to a grand jury. This was before they even found a body. I would guess they have even more evidence now. I do not understand how people can claim accident or speculation if a grand jury who has seen the evidence and heard the testimony felt there was enough to call it murder.