KC's "Brain Development"

[Linda7NJ]

How can the defense claim she has some sort of brain or development issue when she is clearly assisting in her own defense even helping to select jurors? Would not her own defense team not pay any attention to what she says if this were the case? Do that make sense?

any testimony like that will be used to simply save her life, not a defense tactic for the crime. :woohoo:

 

[Solace]

I agree with you. I think the missed PR trip was a very big deal to ICA. I also think she found her attempts to be a part of Tony's world (middle class, upwardly mobile, college graduate - or at least in college) harder and harder to maintain. Up until that time, she was able to "keep up" with her social circle.

At this point she is beginning to see she is unable to keep up with the group she wants to be with, an intolerable thought for someone who wants to be the center of attention.

Rather than go back to school and do the work required to go on trips with friends and attract a well educated man, she lied.

Rather than see that she is the problem, she looked around to see who she could blame for holding her back and her eyes fell on Caylee.

Yes, all true, but I also see her rage at Cindy being a part of it along with jealously of Caylee. She apparently really wanted to hurt Cindy and she did. She also looked extremely happy with Cindy when Cindy lied for her at the hearing regarding the dryer sheets and said "thank you" to Cindy as she left the courtroom - basically I am still number one.

 

[ladylurker]

How can the defense claim she has some sort of brain or development issue when she is clearly assisting in her own defense even helping to select jurors? Would not her own defense team not pay any attention to what she says if this were the case? Do that make sense?

this confuses me as well. how can they say out of one side of their mouth that she's got issues and out of the other side that she's MOTY and practically employed by the DT?

i mean, casey clearly has issues. typically-developing young women don't act like casey anthony, because otherwise the world would be a much more horrific place! most of us couldn't even begin to THINK about doing such a thing, much less DO it. most of this case is unfathomable to us, because for the most part we are typically-developing people with empathy and control over our emotional outbursts. so in that sense, yes, casey must have brain development issues, because there is no way someone can go from being a totally normal human being to murdering their child and not even really caring about it. absolutely no way.

i agree with kinsey about the narcissism thing and unfortunately have firsthand experience as well - my father. my dad is a really smart man, has a phd, is very charming and liked by many, etc etc. he still horribly abused us & mom. and he rewrites the past to make himself look like he's always right, and he doesn't remember (so he claims) some of the really bad times, and he would never ever consider treatment because to a narcissist, the problem isn't with them, it's with everyone else. he was raised as the golden child of the family, allowed to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, and everyone has tiptoed around him his entire life. so this is all too familiar for me. casey clearly, clearly has issues and her life has seemed to just be acting out on these issues constantly.

the sad thing is that no one helped her. mental health issues are something you suffer from, and you absolutely can feel like a victim. casey as a young child was probably someone any of us would feel sorry for. it is absolutely horrible, to need mental health help and to not receive it - that is something i experienced. my narcissist father could not bear the thought of me being imperfect and requiring mental health help, so he sabotaged all my therapy attempts. my acting out has all been self-inflicted, and i've undergone years of therapy and am doing great now and will continue to be in therapy maybe my whole life. but being kept from help as a child, suffering alone from all these crazy thoughts in my head, just so my parents didn't have to admit that maybe they didn't have the perfect daughter... what a terrible experience. and i believe casey went through that as well, only rather than sweep her issues under the rug they let her think she was entitled to them.

i'm a mom myself of two beautiful young children, and my preschool-aged daughter was an infant when this case came up. i don't pity casey now or feel sorry for her. she has said in the past to friends that she needed mental help. she knew that. she chose not to seek it once she had the ability to advocate for herself. i cannot understand that - even with some horrible therapy experiences in the past due to my dad's sabotaging, i knew that in order to be the best possible mom to my children (who may genetically inherit some mental health issues), i had to find a GOOD therapist and start working on my issues, to teach them that it's okay to have bad and scary feelings as long as you can do something productive about it, etc. so i've got no pity for casey as an adult, as a child abuser, as a murderer. NONE. i had a hard time doing it for my own sake, but when my daughter was born i realized i really needed to take care of myself in order to teach her how to take care of herself, to be a good role model for her so that she would realize she does have the power and resources to overcome obstacles.

but i do feel that her untreated mental health issues from childhood, and her parents' inability to deal with them in any sort of productive way, are the reason things came to be like this. so in that sense i do believe her brain development has a key role. narcissists don't have the same brains as we do. they lack empathy. and if they are allowed to have total control over the family from childhood on, they are just... monsters. how can your brain develop properly if you never see real consequences of your actions?

 

[OneLostGrl]

This sketti noodle is going to fall off the wall.

Makes me very snarly..
The accused is still fabricating, and it bleeds over into our lives..
through her, others are getting feelings hurt in debate..

I'll just be in the corner cussin' like Yosimite Sam..

:laugh: You are funny

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Here's what I think....YES without a doubt Casey sufers from some form of mental illness. HOWEVER, she is not criminally insane and there lies the difference. I am quite certain and willing to bet my last dollar that 99.9% of the folks on death row have some form of mental illness.

Well, it's actually 5-10%. People with mental illness are more likely to be victimized than to be violent criminals. Therefore, it is not really fair to bring up mental illness and death row inmates as if there is a correlation, imo.

 

[catnron]

On HLN they were showing Casey as I walk n today at 4:00,Casey was sitting at the table in court and she had a black purse in front of her getting out what looked like lipstick & lotion and putting it on, did I see this right or am I crazy lol!!!

 

[Nikimama]

MOO- 21 years in pediatrics tells me LA has asperger's with almost certainty. My dad has it
and graduated from GA TECH
It's more of a social disorder than intelligence.
ICA runs more in the spectrum of high functioning autism.BUT I can only base my opinion on what I have witnessed on TV.
I. see ZERO indication of fetal alcohol syndrome. GOOGLE IT! ICA looks NOTHING like FAS.
JMOO!

BBM

Just an FYI, MOST kids with FASD don't look like it. The dysmorphic facial features only occur if the mom is drinking during a very small window (like only a few days) very early in pregnancy. A child who's mother didn't drink on those specific days can still have FASD, but will not have the 'look'. However, they can still have all the social, behavioral and mental issues that occur within that diagnosis. It is EXTREMELY difficult to parent children with this disorder, but not impossible, as long as you change your expectations and realize that they will always need someone to be their 'external brain' and help them make all important life decisions. Some are able to function better around the age of 35.

 

[Solace]

BBM

Just an FYI, MOST kids with FASD don't look like it. The dysmorphic facial features only occur if the mom is drinking during a very small window (like only a few days) very early in pregnancy. A child who's mother didn't drink on those specific days can still have FASD, but will not have the 'look'. However, they can still have all the social, behavioral and mental issues that occur within that diagnosis. It is EXTREMELY difficult to parent children with this disorder, but not impossible, as long as you change your expectations and realize that they will always need someone to be their 'external brain' and help them make all important life decisions. Some are able to function better around the age of 35.

Now we have KC with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? The hits just keep on comin.

 

[dodie20]

Well, it's actually 5-10%. People with mental illness are more likely to be victimized than to be violent criminals. Therefore, it is not really fair to bring up mental illness and death row inmates as if there is a correlation, imo.

I agree that the mentally ill are more likely to be victimized, but the 5-10 % seems way too low. Maybe they don't fall under the legal guidelines for criminally insane, but someone with a mental illness isn't necessarily insane. It's said that we only use 10% of our brains. If that's close to being true, what is the other 90% up to? I think it's possible that the other 90% is always working, always churning, sometimes for good, but sometimes for bad...storing memories and twisting facts, and festering and getting sicker and sicker. There are so many 'small' mental illnesses that can't really be explained or cured...anorexia, OCD, hoarding, phobias, ....we have names for them, but people who suffer and get treatment, usually suffer somewhat forever. These kinds of conditions don't cause people to snap and commit murder, but they're real. How many other conditions are there, that we don't know about or have names for? The brain is so complex, I get dizzy just thinking about it. MOO.

 

[jojomonkey]

Hi all - I don't know if this belongs on this thread or not. If it's inappropriate feel free to delete, Moderators. I'm an avid reader but seldom post, so I'm not totally sure of the "etiquette".

I just finished reading a really fascinating article by a forensic psychologist about the Gradations of Evil Scale he created, and how you can classify murderers into one of 22 different types. I recognized ICA immediately in a few of the categories, I think she mostly resembles #7.

6. Hot Heads - Killers who act in an impetuous moment, yet without marked psychopathic features.

7. Narcissists - Highly narcissistic killers who are often possessive, not distinctly psychopathic, but "with a psychopathic core." They typically kill loved ones or family members out of jealousy.

8. Fit of Rage - Non-psychopathic people, who live with an underlying, smoldering rage, then kill when that rage is ignited.

10. "In The Way" Killers, - Not Fully Psychopathic Killers of witnesses or people who are simply "in the way." These evildoers are egocentric, but not totally psychopathic

11. "In The Way" Psychopaths - Psychopathic killers of people "in the way." Premeditation is not usually a major factor in their killings.

14. Schemers - Ruthlessly self-centered and psychopathic, schemers stop at nothing to deceive, con and steal.


It's a long article but worth reading if you're interested in that sort of thing:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129175964

 

[txsvicki]

After thinking about the term "brain development", I think the defense is simply going to bring up her age during the penalty phase. They say that brain development is not complete until a person is about age 24, and Casey was quite a bit younger when Caylee died. Knowing that there is no real diagnosed mental illness, and they do not want her to be labeled a psychopath, they'll probably talk about how young she was and how much of an "abused poor victim" she was, which also caused her problems with developing normally.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hi all - I don't know if this belongs on this thread or not. If it's inappropriate feel free to delete, Moderators. I'm an avid reader but seldom post, so I'm not totally sure of the "etiquette".

I just finished reading a really fascinating article by a forensic psychologist about the Gradations of Evil Scale he created, and how you can classify murderers into one of 22 different types. I recognized ICA immediately in a few of the categories, I think she mostly resembles #7.

6. Hot Heads - Killers who act in an impetuous moment, yet without marked psychopathic features.

7. Narcissists - Highly narcissistic killers who are often possessive, not distinctly psychopathic, but "with a psychopathic core." They typically kill loved ones or family members out of jealousy.

8. Fit of Rage - Non-psychopathic people, who live with an underlying, smoldering rage, then kill when that rage is ignited.

10. "In The Way" Killers, - Not Fully Psychopathic Killers of witnesses or people who are simply "in the way." These evildoers are egocentric, but not totally psychopathic

11. "In The Way" Psychopaths - Psychopathic killers of people "in the way." Premeditation is not usually a major factor in their killings.

14. Schemers - Ruthlessly self-centered and psychopathic, schemers stop at nothing to deceive, con and steal.


It's a long article but worth reading if you're interested in that sort of thing:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129175964

They had a show with this guy on it.. wish I could remember the name of it. I think it was on ID

 

[Noddy]

They had a show with this guy on it.. wish I could remember the name of it. I think it was on ID

You're right, it was on ID. 'Most Evil with Michael Stone' http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/most-evil-top-ten-videos/

 

[Quiche]

On HLN they were showing Casey as I walk n today at 4:00,Casey was sitting at the table in court and she had a black purse in front of her getting out what looked like lipstick & lotion and putting it on, did I see this right or am I crazy lol!!!

I saw the black purse sitting there! The inmate looked like a cat with prey-- got all googly eyed and nervous, imo. I didn't see the lotion scene, but I did see DS pick it up and set it somewhere else.

:laugh: What a temptation that was for KC!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Hi all - I don't know if this belongs on this thread or not. If it's inappropriate feel free to delete, Moderators. I'm an avid reader but seldom post, so I'm not totally sure of the "etiquette".

I just finished reading a really fascinating article by a forensic psychologist about the Gradations of Evil Scale he created, and how you can classify murderers into one of 22 different types. I recognized ICA immediately in a few of the categories, I think she mostly resembles #7.

6. Hot Heads - Killers who act in an impetuous moment, yet without marked psychopathic features.

7. Narcissists - Highly narcissistic killers who are often possessive, not distinctly psychopathic, but "with a psychopathic core." They typically kill loved ones or family members out of jealousy.

8. Fit of Rage - Non-psychopathic people, who live with an underlying, smoldering rage, then kill when that rage is ignited.

10. "In The Way" Killers, - Not Fully Psychopathic Killers of witnesses or people who are simply "in the way." These evildoers are egocentric, but not totally psychopathic

11. "In The Way" Psychopaths - Psychopathic killers of people "in the way." Premeditation is not usually a major factor in their killings.

14. Schemers - Ruthlessly self-centered and psychopathic, schemers stop at nothing to deceive, con and steal.


It's a long article but worth reading if you're interested in that sort of thing:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129175964

This Dr. sounds like a hack...any time you bring something made up and as nebulous as "evil" it really diminishes the person's credibility imo. Evil is not a scientific term and I cannot imagine why he would want to muddy the waters by bringing that into any kind of analysis.

 

[Mare10]

IMO bipolar disorder is not an excuse. My daughter is bipolar and yes it's not easy. With that said, she is on her meds and doing great. We still have our moments, however, it's much better now. With CA being a Nurse it makes me nuts thinking that lived in that household and did nothing (knowing what I know living in a bipolar situation). I took my daughter to hospitals, doctors etc. Not until she turned 21 and took it upon herself did anything get diagnosed. She is doing great! Now if you factor in a baby, Oh Lord, how did they not seek more help. I don't believe any of this. I know, I know, a Mom as a registered nurse and no pre natal and no well visits for Caylee. They just didn't do this. WHY????

They are totally hiding something that they never wanted to be brought to the surface. Otherwise, it makes zero sense. Bipolar, is not on my table of thought for ICA. It's something else, IMO.

 

[OneLostGrl]

IMO bipolar disorder is not an excuse. My daughter is bipolar and yes it's not easy. With that said, she is on her meds and doing great. We still have our moments, however, it's much better now. With CA being a Nurse it makes me nuts thinking that lived in that household and did nothing (knowing what I know living in a bipolar situation). I took my daughter to hospitals, doctors etc. Not until she turned 21 and took it upon herself did anything get diagnosed. She is doing great! Now if you factor in a baby, Oh Lord, how did they not seek more help. I don't believe any of this. I know, I know, a Mom as a registered nurse and no pre natal and no well visits for Caylee. They just didn't do this. WHY????

They are totally hiding something that they never wanted to be brought to the surface. Otherwise, it makes zero sense. Bipolar, is not on my table of thought for ICA. It's something else, IMO.

I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing well.. it's not easy! :blowkiss:

 

[Knot4u2no]

This Dr. sounds like a hack...any time you bring something made up and as nebulous as "evil" it really diminishes the person's credibility imo. Evil is not a scientific term and I cannot imagine why he would want to muddy the waters by bringing that into any kind of analysis.

For an attempt at defining and profiling Evil in an observable and measurable manner, see my blog entries Profiling Evil part 1, Profiling Evil part 2, and Profiling Evil part 3: Political Evil.

Russell

 

[OneLostGrl]

For an attempt at defining and profiling Evil in an observable and measurable manner, see my blog entries Profiling Evil part 1, Profiling Evil part 2, and Profiling Evil part 3: Political Evil.

Russell

I really wish you'd chime in more often..

 

[Horace Finklestein]

For an attempt at defining and profiling Evil in an observable and measurable manner, see my blog entries Profiling Evil part 1, Profiling Evil part 2, and Profiling Evil part 3: Political Evil.

Russell

I don't agree with what I read. You're arbitrarily giving values to different ideas and behaviors...but in the end it's just an opinion. I personally think most of what people consider "evil" is simply the result of a person's choices based on greed, fear, jealousy, anger and selfishness, as opposed to a "force" or something that should factor into any kind of scientific analysis.

I'm really only interested in scientific approaches to explaining things. In my opinion there is cause and effect and motivation. Effects are good for some, bad for others and in many cases make no sense or are abhorrent and beyond understanding. Casey did what she did because she chose to, not because of some superstition about evil imo.

I have seen no evidence based studies or peer reviewed articles on "evil" and I think the concept has no place in a clinical setting. I find the idea unnecessary and based in superstition and throwing the Bible passages in tells me we are just not on the same page, which is fine.