Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[Seattle1]

From testimony during the prelim hearing, we know that Mullins was not armed, and no weapon was located in his Chambers.

I just read for the first time that Judge Mullins was known to carry a gun for self-defense.

I wonder if Stines expected Mullins to be armed?

I wonder if Mullins would he have fired at Mickey Stines?

Mullins usually carried a gun for self-defense

 

[tlcya]

Small town is rocked as their sheriff is jailed in the killing of a prominent judge

The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse.

www.kbtx.com

Judge’s phone used to call Letcher County sheriff’s daughter before deadly courthouse shooting

“I wasn’t present,” Clayton Stamper, lead investigator, said. “But when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there that he made the c…

www.wjhl.com

Small town is rocked as their sheriff is jailed in the killing of a prominent judge

The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse.

www.kbtx.com

Kentucky sheriff who shot judge ‘angry’ in deposition: Lawyer

In a civil lawsuit, the sheriff was accused of ignoring one of his subordinate’s sexual abuse of female prisoners.

www.newsnationnow.com

SBM (tlcya)

When JM and MS return to the office, there are at least four people in there who MS shuttles out so that he can have a private conversation with MS. Shortly afterwards, other witnesses in the vicinity hear the two arguing, we know MS attempts to call on his daughter on both of their daughters and then shots are heard from behind the office door as panic ensues and JM tragically loses his life in MS attempt to basically execute him.

SBM (tlcya)

I am trying to read all your linked articles, can you direct me to which one says witnesses overheard arguing from the judge's chamber before the shots rang out? I haven't read that anywhere. Only heard Stamper's testimony that a witness outside the door heard someone say "help" TIA

 

[Warwick7]

From testimony during the prelim hearing, we know that Mullins was not armed, and no weapon was located in his Chambers.

I just read for the first time that Judge Mullins was known to carry a gun for self-defense.

I wonder if Stines expected Mullins to be armed?

I wonder if Mullins would he have fired at Mickey Stines?

Mullins usually carried a gun for self-defense

In that article it also states: "Some here in the county are afraid to speak publicly because they have seen the attacks on others who spoke well of Mullins or who tried to quell the rumors. But in conversation after conversation held on the condition that the people not be identified, a disturbing picture of what really transpired as begun to emerge."

I want to know more about this disturbing picture of really transpired. And I want to more about Stampers cell texts.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am trying to read all your linked articles, can you direct me to which one says witnesses overheard arguing from the judge's chamber before the shots rang out? I haven't ead that. Only heard Stamper's testimony that a witness outside the door heard someone say "help" TIA

"Witnesses in the next room told investigators they couldn’t overhear what led to the argument between the two men but reportedly heard multiple gunshots and Mullins pleading for help."

Judge’s phone used to call Letcher County sheriff’s daughter before deadly courthouse shooting

“I wasn’t present,” Clayton Stamper, lead investigator, said. “But when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there that he made the c…

www.wjhl.com

 

[tlcya]

Some here in the county are afraid to speak publicly because they have seen the attacks on others who spoke well of Mullins or who tried to quell the rumors. But in conversation after conversation held on the condition that the people not be identified, a disturbing picture of what really transpired as begun to emerge.
As courthouse workers screamed and sobbed, what they found out sent shockwaves across country - The Mountain Eagle

to me this suggests that people who are speaking well of Mullins and not buying the rumors of what some say justifies or mitigates Stines actions have supplied an alternate theory of why Stines did what he did. I for one would love see this disturbing picture they are painting. It sounds as if it is not something disturbing about Mullins the way it is framed here, but rather something disturbing about Stines. JMO MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

In that article it also states: "Some here in the county are afraid to speak publicly because they have seen the attacks on others who spoke well of Mullins or who tried to quell the rumors. But in conversation after conversation held on the condition that the people not be identified, a disturbing picture of what really transpired as begun to emerge."

I want to know more about this disturbing picture of really transpired. And I want to more about Stampers cell texts.

I'm going back to the expression on the detective's face & the way he worded what "occurred" during the conversations Stines' minor daughter had with the judge, that the detective surmised would also be found on the judge's cell phone records. To me, that spoke volumes.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

"Witnesses in the next room told investigators they couldn’t overhear what led to the argument between the two men but reportedly heard multiple gunshots and Mullins pleading for help."

Judge’s phone used to call Letcher County sheriff’s daughter before deadly courthouse shooting

“I wasn’t present,” Clayton Stamper, lead investigator, said. “But when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there that he made the c…

www.wjhl.com

meaning they did NOT overhear an argument. IMO. Many articles state the witnesses outside the office were standing around outside the door chatting laughing joking as they waited for court to resume. They were startled when two shots rang out. That doesn't sound like they hear an argument to me. YMMV

The argument is being assumed because Stines things were tense with them prior to going into the chambers and then one man shot the other. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

If this case goes to trial, will the fact that the shooting video has probably been viewed by the jury pool make that much difference in giving Stines a fair trial?

I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.

Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.

I think it's very strange that video was allowed to be seen by the public. Almost seems like it's a set up for it to be tossed out or used for appeal. The video was shared publicly before the grand jury got the case - what was the point of doing that? The suspect is behind bars so it's not as if there was a request from the public for info.

jmopinion

 

[tlcya]

I think it's very strange that video was allowed to be seen by the public. Almost seems like it's a set up for it to be tossed out or used for appeal. The video was shared publicly before the grand jury got the case - what was the point of doing that? The suspect is behind bars so it's not as if there was a request from the public for info.

jmopinion

jmo

that was confusing to me. this would be a non issue had that hearing not been televised. JMO

IMO they are gonna have a hard enough time finding jurors who do not know either man or who don't have a family member or friend who has interacted with them in some way.

 

[Ontario Mom]

meaning they did NOT overhear an argument. IMO. Many articles state the witnesses outside the office were standing around outside the door chatting laughing joking as they waited for court to resume. They were startled when two shots rang out. That doesn't sound like they hear an argument to me. YMMV

The argument is being assumed because Stines things were tense with them prior to going into the chambers and then one man shot the other. JMO

This one basically says the same thing:

"It wasn’t clear what led to the shooting. The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse, according to Kentucky State Police." Small town is rocked as their sheriff is jailed in the killing of a prominent judge

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone heard any argument at all. I think they assumed there was one, and that lead to the shooting. But unless a witness comes forward and says yes, they definitely heard voices raised but couldn't hear what was said (or something like that) then I think this is just a lot of reasonable speculation, but maybe not factual.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

that was confusing to me. this would be a non issue had that hearing not been televised. JMO

IMO they are gonna have a hard enough time finding jurors who do not know either man or who don't have a family member or friend who has interacted with them in some way.

I'm not worried about them finding a jury. Fair juries can be gathered.

I'm not sure why the video being shown bugs me so much, but it does. Seems out of order somehow.

jmo

 

[cocomod]

I'm not worried about them finding a jury. Fair juries can be gathered.

I'm not sure why the video being shown bugs me so much, but it does. Seems out of order somehow.

jmo

Could be, but isn't it similar to showing a LE involved death or shooting? This happens within days quite often, justified or not. Then, the public always weighs in on whether or not it was justified. It never stops the court from moving forward with charges and/or using the video in trial. In this case, it is LE, it is a public office, it just isn't involving a criminal or someone under arrest. It was a gruesome video though! I could not stomach it!

 

[Elley Mae]

Seattle1 posted this in first thread.

Sheriff says argument before shots fired.

…
The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn M. Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse, according to Kentucky State Police. Mullins, who held the judgeship for 15 years, died at the scene, and Stines surrendered without incident.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/national-news/ap-kentucky-judge-shot-at-courthouse-governor-says/

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I just realized a Tiktoker I’ve watched here and there is married to the attorney representing Shawn Stines. She is also a criminal attorney, her name is Kerri Bartley. She is very clear in many of her posts that she doesn’t support the ‘thin blue line”. I’m not sure if Stines was appointed his attorney or if he hired him independently, either way it’s interesting

 

[Seattle1]

I just realized a Tiktoker I’ve watched here and there is married to the attorney representing Shawn Stines. She is also a criminal attorney, her name is Kerri Bartley. She is very clear in many of her posts that she doesn’t support the ‘thin blue line”. I’m not sure if Stines was appointed his attorney or if he hired him independently, either way it’s interesting

According to Court TV (Vinnie P), she's co-counsel for Stines defense.

 

[tlcya]

Seattle1 posted this in first thread.

Sheriff says argument before shots fired.

…
The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn M. Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse, according to Kentucky State Police. Mullins, who held the judgeship for 15 years, died at the scene, and Stines surrendered without incident.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/national-news/ap-kentucky-judge-shot-at-courthouse-governor-says/

I am speaking to the assertion that witnesses HEARD arguing from the chambers.

It is self evident that some sort of argument must have led to this shooting. But testimony from Stamper was as follows:

DEFENSE - Okay, so if I'm understanding correctly you're preparing for a preliminary hearing on a murder and there are witnesses in an adjacent room....

DETECTIVE - They heard gunshots.

DEFENSE - So you are investigating a murder and testifying at a preliminary hearing, and there are witnesses who may have overheard what preceded this edited clip, yet you can't tell us today anything that they said?

DETECTIVE - I've not personally listened to those interviews. I've talked to the other officers that did those interviews.

DEFENSE - Fair enough. I mean, we're here at a preliminary hearing, as you know, you can testify to hearsay, I'm asking what they said.

DETECTIVE - They heard gunshots.

DEFENSE - Okay. Was there any statements that they overheard?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Were there raised voices?

DETECTIVE - There... one person stated that she heard... she didn't recognize him as being Judge Mullens' voice, but heard somebody say 'help, help'.

DEFENSE - Presumably, that will be after the firearm was drawn or shot?

Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

 

[Angelcat13]

In that article it also states: "Some here in the county are afraid to speak publicly because they have seen the attacks on others who spoke well of Mullins or who tried to quell the rumors. But in conversation after conversation held on the condition that the people not be identified, a disturbing picture of what really transpired as begun to emerge."

I want to know more about this disturbing picture of really transpired. And I want to more about Stampers cell texts.

Stampers cell texts?

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I am trying to read all your linked articles, can you direct me to which one says witnesses overheard arguing from the judge's chamber before the shots rang out? I haven't read that anywhere. Only heard Stamper's testimony that a witness outside the door heard someone say "help" TIA

@ around 29:00 on according to Dr. Michael Sterling on CourtTV, MS’ defense attorney’s questions and Stamper’s answers indicate that in addition to the woman who hears JM for help that there were others in the room with her who have also been interviewed, albeit not by Stamper, because they also heard parts of the conversation/raised voices in the chambers or parts of what was going on in the room next door.

Kentucky sheriff reportedly shoots judge: A look at the timeline, investigation

The Letcher County community and others nationwide are left looking for answers as to what led up to it and why this tragedy happened. Here’s a timeline of what we know so far.

fox56news.com

This article mentions the court employees that moved to the other room. Rewatching the video, I think it is possible that the portion of the argument that the court employees heard was mainly from an injured JM begging for help ( or for MS to stop or get away from him or that he has been hit) as he struggles to avoid and find shelter from the onslaught of shots since MS doesn’t appear to speak anymore after he begins shooting with his firearm.

 

[Angelcat13]

I'm not worried about them finding a jury. Fair juries can be gathered.

I'm not sure why the video being shown bugs me so much, but it does. Seems out of order somehow.

jmo

Not only does it seem out of order and/or odd, it seems cruel to KM’s family - and even to MS’s family. Hearing the cries of KM’s family was heartbreaking.

 

[Friday Fan]

@ around 29:00 on according to Dr. Michael Sterling on CourtTV, MS’ defense attorney’s questions and Stamper’s answers indicate that in addition to the woman who hears JM for help that there were others in the room with her who have also been interviewed, albeit not by Stamper, because they also heard parts of the conversation/raised voices in the chambers or parts of what was going on in the room next door.

Info seems to be contradictory as to whether there was audible arguing.


I guess that's how it is with witnesses and second hand info.


Facts that they know, that we don't know:

The time that Stines entered the chambers (How long he was there)
Possibly arguing or not arguing that can be seen on the video. (Facial expressions etc)

Obviously in the video we saw, it's past any arguing.