Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[azure]

And then again, his daughter claims she wasn’t sexually assaulted by the judge and unless LE or the court say differently I presently no reason not to believe her.

Do you have a link for this? I've never seen the claim that the daughter was SAed in MSM, and I certainly haven't seen her respond to that claim.

 

[Elley Mae]

Didn’t the crime happen on September 19th, a Thursday? If so, wouldn’t his daughter theoretically have been in school? If why did he think it would make a difference if he called on his phone vs. the judges’s? Were they not on speaking terms? Usually class has a no phone policy which may explain why she didn’t pick up. Why did he expect her too in such a short amount of time if she was school. If he really needed her to answer did he try to text her to say she really needed her to pick up? Did he try the school? Or ask his wife to ask her to get through to their daughter?

What if his daughter wasn’t at school? Did he even know where she was or whereabouts? Is that why he mentioned a kidnapping? What his mental state of mind at the time? As opposed to a kidnapping did something happen or occur that perhaps led to a physical separation between him and wife and daughter? Did they leave the home of their own volition and were not on speaking terms with him nor did they inform him of where they had gone? What if his mentally due to illness, lack of sleep or stress rather than perceive his family left of their own will he suffers the delusion or paranoia that they were taken from him and thinks other at fault? Did this delusion or thought cause him to suspect the judge because they and their families were close and he was someone with power?

The NPR article mentioned that he seemed altered mentally and emotionally as early as the Monday before during the deposition. Court TV hypothesized his change in demeanor was caused by the stress due to the deposition itself but what if something happens before that and at home?

Also, I wonder if before the shooting if he tried to contact his wife too? It seems his mindset evolved around both of them based on his statement they were trying to kidnap his wife and daughter.

Just my opinion but hypothetically if this horrific murder was motivated by committing a crime or doing something inappropriate and illegal with MS’ daughter wouldn’t he had made a statement more along those lines, like ‘he touched my daughter’ or ‘he was pedophile’ or ‘that pervert had it coming’, rather than allude to a kidnapping that threatened not just his daughter but wife too? His lawyer said MS committed a crime of passion and emotional disturbance. If so, I imagine MS probably wouldn’t be able to help but express to the arresting officer that his fellow friend and judge who everyone looked up had the audacity to assault or prey upon his beloved daughter. Why then mention a supposed kidnapping unless he thought, whether real or not, one was involved and the motivator for the such a horrible murder?

And then again, his daughter claims she wasn’t sexually assaulted by the judge and unless LE or the court say differently I presently no reason not to believe her.

Is did mental illness or some type of delusion or paranoia play a role? Unlike in the moments and days after the murder, he seemed to express remorse or at least show emotion via looking down and seeming to wipe away tears when the video played the preliminary hearing. Does this indicate a change in mental state or whatever mindset or thoughts he had towards the victim? Does he still feel or carry himself as justified?

Just spitballing my thoughts/sharing my opinions

Do you have a link to the daughter saying no sexual assault by judge.?

Tia

 

[Live_and_Learn]

Texts and Phone Calls: A minor is probably going to be on a family plan. You can look at your account online and see phone call and text history. It does not matter how they save a contact. The numbers will be there unless they are "unknown" or masked by the caller or texter.

Other Apps: The defense attorney asked about any other apps on the phone for a reason. If there were any "inappropriate contact," it is very unlikely it would be over text. It would be in those other apps.

 

[Elley Mae]

The detective said they have not yet looked at Stines' daughter's phone, but she has made statements to police about her conversations with Mullins.

MSN

…

All i have seen on daughter.

 

[Chimera]

I agree with this but I can’t help but wonder if Stines fired those extra shots just to ensure that Mullins would never be able to reveal things that might negatively affect him. JMO

Agreed.
Imo, this is important.

Plenty of shade has been thrown Mullins' way, without the judge being able to defend himself.
What if Stines had something he needed covering up ?
Enough that he was willing to risk life in prison, or the ultimate punishment ?
Again just my opinion ; if a man is willing to murder in cold blood, then taking a bribe or doing something else that goes against the oath Stines would've taken after becoming the sheriff, would not be unheard of !
Speculation : What had Stines been up to....
Omo.

 

[Live_and_Learn]

Agreed.
Imo, this is important.

Plenty of shade has been thrown Mullins' way, without the judge being able to defend himself.
What if Stines had something he needed covering up ?
Enough that he was willing to risk life in prison, or the ultimate punishment ?
Again just my opinion ; if a man is willing to murder in cold blood, then taking a bribe or doing something else that goes against the oath Stines would've taken after becoming the sheriff, would not be unheard of !
Omo.

I hear you. I just keep thinking that if this were the case, why chose such a public place?

 

[Chimera]

I hear you. I just keep thinking that if this were the case, why chose such a public place?

Good point. ^^^^
It's all so bizarre.

What's the term for a person who is full of themselves ?
Hubris ?
The most galling statement was that the sheriff wanted to be treated 'fairly'.
Just infuriating.
Was Judge Mullins treated fairly ?
If Stines thought he had "just cause", then go after him legally -- Mullins deserved his day in court.
If this execution is excused and Stines walks someday (I hope not !!); then none of us are safe.
Omo.

 

[MollyDDD]

Agreed.
Imo, this is important.

Plenty of shade has been thrown Mullins' way, without the judge being able to defend himself.
What if Stines had something he needed covering up ?
Enough that he was willing to risk life in prison, or the ultimate punishment ?
Again just my opinion ; if a man is willing to murder in cold blood, then taking a bribe or doing something else that goes against the oath Stines would've taken after becoming the sheriff, would not be unheard of !
Speculation : What had Stines been up to....
Omo.

Well there IS this big elephant in the room to consider, IMO.

Shawn "Mickey" Stines is named in federal lawsuit accusing him of failing to investigate sexual assault within his department
Stines was deposed Monday, Sept. 16, 2024 in the case
The lawsuit alleges the sexual assault took place in the Judge Kevin Mullins' chambers
Stines killed Mullins in his chambers on Sept. 19, 2024

 

[Inthedetails]

Good point. ^^^^
It's all so bizarre.

What's the term for a person who is full of themselves ?
Hubris ?
The most galling statement was that the sheriff wanted to be treated 'fairly'.
Just infuriating.
Was Judge Mullins treated fairly ?
If Stines thought he had "just cause", then go after him legally -- Mullins deserved his day in court.
If this execution is excused and Stines walks someday (I hope not !!); then none of us are safe.
Omo.

I interpreted his request to be treated fairly to mean he wasn't expecting to be treated better than any other common criminal. He knew he just murdered someone and he was willing to take the heat for it. Whatever his motive was, he felt the crime was worth it - so don't bother treating him better than anyone else.

That's how I took it anyway.

jmo

 

[Shade13]

Do you have a link for this? I've never seen the claim that the daughter was SAed in MSM, and I certainly haven't seen her respond to that claim.

There's a started by the sheriffs in-laws and it says "She was not sexually assaulted by the judge, please don't donate to the fund if you believe that is the case. We don't want to mislead anyone".

 

[Live_and_Learn]

Why would this be done in the judge's chambers? Not excusing it at all, but trying to get into his head (as much as you can with someone who kills)... Stines was already in a bad state to be able to do this at all. Did the location have anything to do with symbolically cleaning out what he considered an honorable office/role/location? Was it there because of something he believed happened there?

 

[Inthedetails]

Why would this be done in the judge's chambers? Not excusing it at all, but trying to get into his head (as much as you can with someone who kills)... Stines was already in a bad state to be able to do this at all. Did the location have anything to do with symbolically cleaning out what he considered an honorable office/role/location? Was it there because of something he believed happened there?

It was the judge's suggestion they move their conversation/confrontation from the lunch table to the judge's chambers. I don't think the setting mattered to the killer at all, other than, perhaps, he didn't want anyone to stop him and he didn't want to hurt anyone else.

I don't think there was any symbolism going on.

jmo

 

[MollyDDD]

Trying to think of a scenario where Stines is suspicious enough to suspect Mullins of something, yet it's still something that, once he confirms it, packs enough of an emotional punch to enrage him sufficiently to commit this crime.

My current theory:

Stines finds a troubling text conversation on his daughter's phone, but the other person is in her contacts with a fake name -- let's say "Kilroy".

Subject of the text conversation -- intimate? drug related? someone pressuring her regarding joining a club, or pursuing a non-dad-approved career, or changing churches or otherwise getting involved in something Stines might consider "stealing her away" aka "kidnapping"?

We've heard Stines had been troubled in recent weeks -- maybe he was trying during that time to figure out who his daughter had been texting with. Chasing down her friends and acquaintances and ruling them out one by one.

Perhaps at lunch that day he heard a comment or saw something on Mullins' phone that made him suspect Mullins was the other half of that text exchange.

Once in chambers, he called his daughter with judge's phone, and whether or not she was saved as a contact, either way he could see whether there was a text string between judge's phone and her number, and whether it matched the troubling exchange he had seen on daughter's phone.

Confirming it was Mullins could have enraged Stines to the point of emptying his gun, unfortunately and obviously unjustifiedly.

MOO

Sounds like a good possibility, imo.

 

[MollyDDD]

what is IME short for?

IDK (I hate acronyms!)

 

[tlcya]

It was the judge's suggestion they move their conversation/confrontation from the lunch table to the judge's chambers. I don't think the setting mattered to the killer at all, other than, perhaps, he didn't want anyone to stop him and he didn't want to hurt anyone else.

I don't think there was any symbolism going on.

jmo

agree, which begs the question, had Mullins not offered an opportunity to speak in private in chambers, would he be dead? and if so, how would the sheriff had done it? Would there have been some tragic accident? Would a prowler in the night have killed him is his sleep, and potentially other household members? On a country road with no other witnesses around?

Because I do not for one moment buy the extreme emotional disturbance defense (for now) defense. He meant for that man to die. I don't think he cared about the means of accomplishing it. But when Mullins offered him the private chat, it was too good and tempting to pass on. I suspect whatever the motivation was, Stines believed life as he knew it was done anyway.

 

[MollyDDD]

"In my experience."

Thank you, MassGuy.

 

[Inthedetails]

agree, which begs the question, had Mullins not offered an opportunity to speak in private in chambers, would he be dead? and if so, how would the sheriff had done it? Would there have been some tragic accident? Would a prowler in the night have killed him is his sleep, and potentially other household members? On a country road with no other witnesses around?

Because I do not for one moment buy the extreme emotional disturbance defense (for now) defense. He meant for that man to die. I don't think he cared about the means of accomplishing it. But when Mullins offered him the private chat, it was too good and tempting to pass on. I suspect whatever the motivation was, Stines believed life as he knew it was done anyway.

I suspect it would've happened in the parking lot outside of whatever restaurant they were at.

jmo

 

[bestill]

Do you have a link to the daughter saying no sexual assault by judge.?

Tia

I'm not OP but did find this - “So Very Sad”: Judge Allegedly Tried To “Kidnap” Sherrif’s Wife And Daughter, So He Fired At Him.

From the above report:
"The theory of the daughter, a minor, being taken advantage of has been disproved by Stines’ wife’s sister in law, who set up a page to help the family with their expenses following the Sheriff’s firing.

“The rumor about their daughter being sexually abused is false. We don’t want anyone donating under false pretenses,” she wrote."

There's so much parsed wording in this case, hence our confusion. It would be clearer if the SIL had stated "The rumor of sexual abuse is false, as is the rumor of their being an inappropriate relationship between the Judge and their daughter". That would have shut down that conversation.

All JMO

 

[MollyDDD]

IME = in my experience
IMO = in my opinion

Source: well over 35 years on the internet.

 

[PawneeDew]

This case is driving me crazy. The judge was actually smoking a cigarette at the time of the shooting. He puts his hand up, and I don't detect any alarm on his face. It almost looks like he thinks the Sheriff, his friend, is joking. amoo

Or trying to calm him down, that's a calming gesture, imo.