Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[PrairieWind]

Well there IS this big elephant in the room to consider, IMO.

Shawn "Mickey" Stines is named in federal lawsuit accusing him of failing to investigate sexual assault within his department
Stines was deposed Monday, Sept. 16, 2024 in the case
The lawsuit alleges the sexual assault took place in the Judge Kevin Mullins' chambers
Stines killed Mullins in his chambers on Sept. 19, 2024

I'm not sure this is correct? Is the lawsuit naming him as a Defendant saying that he failed to investigate the assaults or just that he failed to properly supervise? Those are totally different allegations with different ramifications.

 

[RANCH]

The day after the deposition, Stines — who usually returned press calls promptly — took many hours to get back to a reporter about a fatal accident, according to The Mountain Eagle, Letcher’s weekly newspaper. Stines told the newspaper that he’d “told everyone at the sheriff’s office not to say anything to anyone until he returned.”

The above quote doesn't say when the fatal accident took place in relation to the reporters inquiry about it. It could have taken place days before and the reporter wanted more details. JMO.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

 

[KonaHonu]

... And we need to know the current values of properties owned by the major players in this case. Only the DM digs deep into those realty portfolios and provides the detailed info that can reveal so much about motive, opportunity, and if someone has a polished parquet floor or cheeky snug with a street view.

The rest we can leave to WSers, the odd MSM reporter who cares, and court.

I posted links to the values of the sheriff's properties back in thread #1 a couple of weeks ago. You can go find them if you'd like but the summary is that the sheriff owns 3 properties - 2 adjacent lots in McRoberts KY and a mobile home and lot on Lake Cherokee TN.

The judge does not own any property in Letcher County. He lived in a house owned by his mother. The value is n/a. It is a 14.72 acre farm. If you search for "Joes Branch" as the property location at the link below you will understand the situation. Most of the land in that area is owned by the Mullins extended family.

https://qpublic.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=972&LayerID=19510&PageTypeID=4&PageID=8550&Q=928737009&KeyValue=96

 

[tlcya]

I'm not sure this is correct? Is the lawsuit naming him as a Defendant saying that he failed to investigate the assaults or just that he failed to properly supervise? Those are totally different allegations with different ramifications.

Stines is named as a defendant for failing to properly train and supervise Fields and for failing to “reasonably respond” to reports or suspicions.
Sheriff Shawn M. Stines is a defendant in a pending federal lawsuit. What to know

 

[PrairieWind]

Sorry, but names are not released at times of accidents. It's a traffic, public safety situation. If a road is closed, public needs to be notified.

Sorry, but names are not released at times of accidents. It's a traffic, public safety situation. If a road is closed, public needs to be notified.

So you are stating that the Sheriff actually told everyone to not even acknowledge there is an accident at all? Not notify Highway Patrol or highway department, or literally anyone? I am really perplexed what you are talking about here.

 

[al66pine]

News Cycle at Mountain Eagle ?

Seriously, I find these comments are being taking out of context, and now we are going off the rails, directly due to the circumstances! This is a weekly publication (Mountain Eagle) where the Sheriff probably wanted to be the spokesperson for his small department. It's unfortunate that the Letcher County Sheriff FB was taken down where this was clearly evident. Seems people are forgetting this is a KY town with a population of less than 1800, and a county under 20K! ....

sbm @Seattle1 Yep, exactly: a WEEKLY publication.

In reading several stories at M-E website, a few times IIRC that the freshest articles were couple days old. M-E is not updating at a breakneck pace.

If claim about sheriff's recent slowed response time to media queries is true, not sure about any significance. Admittedly If true, it could indicate something about Stines' state of mind. Or not. IDK.

 

[PrairieWind]

Stines is named as a defendant for failing to properly train and supervise Fields and for failing to “reasonably respond” to reports or suspicions.
Sheriff Shawn M. Stines is a defendant in a pending federal lawsuit. What to know

Stines is named as a defendant for failing to properly train and supervise Fields and for failing to “reasonably respond” to reports or suspicions.
Sheriff Shawn M. Stines is a defendant in a pending federal lawsuit. What to know

What does the Complaint actually say? Do we have the complaint.

 

[KonaHonu]

What does the Complaint actually say? Do we have the complaint.

It says a LOT but the key point is that the sheriff was being sued in his OFFICIAL capacity not personally.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/adkins-v-fields/

 

[tlcya]

What does the Complaint actually say? Do we have the complaint.

PDF can be downloaded from this site along with other docs pertaining to the federal civil suit
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/adkins-v-fields/

basic gist is Stines knew or should have known Fields was abusing his power and failed to prevent it

 

[shetalksinstereo]

I think the "foreplay" was to make sure the judge knew why the sheriff was going to kill him. He didn't want to ambush the judge by surprise, but to do it so the judge had full knowledge.

jmo

Totally agree. He wanted to terrorize the judge so that the judge's last moment was fear.

 

[PrairieWind]

PDF can be downloaded from this site along with other docs pertaining to the federal civil suit
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/adkins-v-fields/

basic gist is Stines knew or should have known Fields was abusing his power and failed to prevent it

It is the standard should have known, failure to properly train/supervise allegation brought in these cases. There is no allegation that he WAS aware and failed to investigate.

 

[tlcya]

It is the standard should have known, failure to properly train/supervise allegation brought in these cases. There is no allegation that he WAS aware and failed to investigate.

exactly it is the boiler plate knew or should have known.

 

[Seattle1]

No. You can't go around killing people that anger you.

Heat of passion was created for situations that you reasonably cannot be expected to cool your passions and calm yourself, i.e. you walk in on your wife in bed with another man, or you walk in your child being sexually assaulted. If you kill the perpetrator IN THAT MOMENT - while you haven't had time to reflect on what you're doing and reasonably couldn't be expected to - that is what mitigates murder to manslaughter.

In this scenario, it appears something had been boiling up for weeks. They had just had lunch together minutes earlier. Obviously I don't know more than any of you, but so far, it appears to me that he knew what he was going to do.

This has to be one of the strangest cases I've ever experienced: Although the video of Stines shooting a defenseless, Mullins dead inside his Chambers was released for all to see, Stines appears to have a huge amount of public support in KY. (Not denying it, but justified)??

During the preliminary hearing, we heard testimony from the lead investigator (Stamper) that Stines appeared calm after the shooting, and only requested he be treated fair. He also testified he heard from other investigators (hearsay) that after Stines was taken into custody, he stated something to the effect 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid.'

Having just murdered a Judge, a capital offense, IMO, the kidnapping comment was a self-serving statement from the lawman to plant the seed to mitigate to manslaughter -- "having acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance," pursuant to 507.020 Murder. Similar to his lawyer's recent statement citing he acted in a heat of passion.

But we all saw the video -- Mullins having any Stines family member's phone number (daughter, wife) in his phone did not pose an immediate threat to either of them at that moment.

We know of no credible kidnapping threat to Stines family before or after the murder of Mullins. Stines calm demeanor described by Stamper following the shooting seems to indicate that he believed he neutralized any threat by killing Mullins. Mullins was his intended target. Stines surrendered. He didn't need to hunt down anybody else!

I dunno... Stines might be a likeable, good ole KY boy but I think his defense is going to have a difficult time saving him from anything short of life in prison from just that video alone showing his final, deliberate, kill shots of Mullins before he exited the Chambers. MOO

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717

 

[PrairieWind]

Well there IS this big elephant in the room to consider, IMO.

Shawn "Mickey" Stines is named in federal lawsuit accusing him of failing to investigate sexual assault within his department
Stines was deposed Monday, Sept. 16, 2024 in the case
The lawsuit alleges the sexual assault took place in the Judge Kevin Mullins' chambers
Stines killed Mullins in his chambers on Sept. 19, 2024

So looking at the Complaint, this is NOT what Stines was being accused of. Just failure to properly train/supervise. And it is all in his capacity as Sheriff. So he was never going to be personally liable for this.

 

[al66pine]

What's on the Video? What's to Report?

It has not been reported.
Apparently, they were sitting down looking at phones and Stines got up and pointed his gun at the judge. He doesn't call for backup and he starts shooting. I don't see any handcuffs or any attempt at arrest. I don't see any evidence of resisting arrest. Wouldn't that have been caught on video?

@Friday Fan
Yes, vid system would have/could have RECORDED whatever actions and inactions occurred when judge & sheriff were in chambers.
At the hearing, the prosecutor SHOWED excerpts from the vid recording.
Why play more vid than necessary to accomplish the object of the hearing?

How can anyone conclude - X, Y, or Z did or did not happen, because "it has not been reported."
X, Y, or Z actions or inactions have not been reported, because imo prosecutor SHOWED ~ 25 sec. of vid excerpts and did not present vid evidence or witness testimony about actions or inactions preceding the vid clip.

So---
Q: What's MSM to report as FACT re actions & inactions preceding vid clip shown at hearing?
A: Zip zero, imo.
Q: What can WS members post as OPINION about actions & inactions that MAY preceded that clip?
A: Lots. Which makes for interesting reading & discussion. But still opinion for the time being.

 

[worm]

This has to be one of the strangest cases I've ever experienced: Although the video of Stines shooting a defenseless, Mullins dead inside his Chambers was released for all to see, Stines appears to have a huge amount of public support in KY. (Not denying it, but justified)??

During the preliminary hearing, we heard testimony from the lead investigator (Stamper) that Stines appeared calm after the shooting, and only requested he be treated fair. He also testified he heard from other investigators (hearsay) that after Stines was taken into custody, he stated something to the effect 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid.'

Having just murdered a Judge, a capital offense, IMO, the kidnapping comment was a self-serving statement from the lawman to plant the seed to mitigate to manslaughter -- "having acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance," pursuant to 507.020 Murder. Similar to his lawyer's recent statement citing he acted in a heat of passion.

But we all saw the video -- Mullins having any Stines family member's phone number (daughter, wife) in his phone did not pose an immediate threat to either of them at that moment.

We know of no credible kidnapping threat to Stines family before or after the murder of Mullins. Stines calm demeanor described by Stamper following the shooting seems to indicate that he believed he neutralized any threat by killing Mullins. Mullins was his intended target. Stines surrendered. He didn't need to hunt down anybody else!

I dunno... Stines might be a likeable, good ole KY boy but I think his defense is going to have a difficult time saving him from anything short of life in prison from just that video alone showing his final, deliberate, kill shots of Mullins before he exited the Chambers. MOO

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717

This is going to test our tolerance for revenge violence and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he got some kind of a break. I had this conversation recently with someone who is bent on this somehow being the guy protecting the family. I find it pretty narcissistic for somebody to do what Stines did and his first concern is with how “fair” that HE would be treated.
I’d guess that the Mullins family would have appreciated some “fairness” as well.

 

[MollyDDD]

So looking at the Complaint, this is NOT what Stines was being accused of. Just failure to properly train/supervise. And it is all in his capacity as Sheriff. So he was never going to be personally liable for this.

Do you think he was not aware of what was going on in the judge’s chambers?

 

[Friday Fan]

What's on the Video? What's to Report?

@Friday Fan
Yes, vid system would have/could have RECORDED whatever actions and inactions occurred when judge & sheriff were in chambers.
At the hearing, the prosecutor SHOWED excerpts from the vid recording.
Why play more vid than necessary to accomplish the object of the hearing?

How can anyone conclude - X, Y, or Z did or did not happen, because "it has not been reported."
X, Y, or Z actions or inactions have not been reported, because imo prosecutor SHOWED ~ 25 sec. of vid excerpts and did not present vid evidence or witness testimony about actions or inactions preceding the vid clip.

So---
Q: What's MSM to report as FACT re actions & inactions preceding vid clip shown at hearing?
A: Zip zero, imo.
Q: What can WS members post as OPINION about actions & inactions that MAY preceded that clip?
A: Lots. Which makes for interesting reading & discussion. But still opinion for the time being.

Well, if this is how the sheriff deals with people who "resist" arrest, I'm glad he's locked up!

Where are his handcuffs?
Why didn't he call for back up?
Why doesn't he try to tackle the judge before he shoots him?
And if he tried to tackle the judge in the preceding minutes of the video why isn't the office a mess before he draws his gun?
Why doesn't he try to cuff him before he shoots him?
Why doesn't he just rough up the judge? The judge is sitting down. He's smoking. He's smaller than Stines. He's older than Stines. Certainly Stines could have just gone over to the chair and roughed him up and easily apprehended him.
Why is the judge sitting down? (Which is a strange position for "resisting arrest)

 

[PrairieWind]

Do you think he was not aware of what was going on in the judge’s chambers?

I have no idea. But my guess is that it is extremely unlikely he was aware. If the Plaintiffs has one scintilla of evidence that he did they would have drafted that Complaint very differently.

 

[Seattle1]

It is the standard should have known, failure to properly train/supervise allegation brought in these cases. There is no allegation that he WAS aware and failed to investigate.

Yes, just as Official-capacity suits are simply “another way of pleading an action against an entity of which an officer is an agent.” Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 166 (1985). In this case, claim against the County.

The civil lawsuit was filed Jan 31, 2022, and Sheriff Stines fired the offending deputy the following day for conduct unbecoming. The former deputy wasn't indicted and/or criminally charged until September 2022. [Independent, Criminal investigation by AGO].

Following the depositions of all three named defendants, the plaintiffs had moved for Mediation but the case was stayed following the shooting. More recently (Sept 23) stay, deadlines for discovery, etc., extended 60 days for status of case.

IMO, this civil suit has no relevance to the shooting of Judge Mullins.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/adkins-v-fields/